Damn, we were wrong about Warrior...

I was wondering where my hat went.
 
Khajit said:
Bad example which completely failed.
flash doesnt exist solely to grab hate. It exists for the blind and happens to introduce alot of hate which pld find useful.
And whm with thier cure spells are meant to( surprise!) CURE. The added hate is because curing gnerates hate as well proportional to what you healed back. When you heal a shitload of hp from an entire pt of course you're gonna get hate from doing that much at once.
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No, it's pretty much exclusively a hate tool. The flash is a bonus, but it's so short lived that you might dodge one attack round. It's purely a hate tool, not a strong blind with a bunch of hate tagged on.
 
So any whm that uses flash when the nin doesnt have shadows up to allow the nin to get them back up is a bad whm now?
If it was purely a hate tool it wouldn't even need to have the blind tacked on.
We the playerbase just happen to exclusively use it as a hate tool similar to how people use gravity for kiting and never think of the -eva benefits from it.
 
btw. I do agree that generally speaking flash is best used as a hate tool. It was probably designed to have so much hate so that pld could tank better and give them a reason to use it.
Oh and in my experience flash lasts at least 2-3 attack round and is extremely potent to the point where not evading something with flash up is next to imossible.
 
I've used flash whenever I could as a WHM to make the mob miss. What is important about that is that I try to nail that turn when NIN has to recast Utsusemi or PLD is curing himself. ;D
 
I PTed with this guy the other night. He must have a really small dick as he couldn't hold hate if his life depended on it. When I gave him pointers all he did was get pissed and upset and said things like, "lul I been playing for yrs, don't tell me how to do my job"

Thanks a lot for wasting my time asshole

WOREST PLAYER.... EVER
 
Ruffyreborn said:
Jamal, you just completely misinterpreted what was typed. So honestly, youre arguing with me from the other side of the bridge, about something Im not even arguing back to you about. Stop being a pompous ass
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Let's take a look back at what I critiqued you on, and asked for an explanation for to make sure I was understanding it correctly. I listed these posts in the order they were posted:

First, here is your first post which no one argued with:
Ruffyreborn said:
What we need is people to understand that there are 2 natural tank jobs out there, and one tank job that kind of bloomed from its original intent.

PLD, WAR and NIN.

SAM can also tank to an extent, as can MNK, although these two jobs were considered to be more along the lines of 'secondary tanks.' One of the reasons SAMs AF has enmity, and their abilities also reflect defending themselves
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This statement holds validity. PLD / WAR / NIN can all be tanks. I didn't respond as this was obvious. I'm not sure, but I'm guessing you were expecting a revolt to occur when you listed WAR as one of the tanks, which is why you assumed that I was disagreeing with that when I first responded. However, it was your followup to this where the problem first arose:
Ruffyreborn said:
The reason 99% of the war's suck at tanking is because they dont gear for it
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THIS is where I first disagreed and asked for clarification. Your first statement was correct, but this was way off. Dowzer made his comments about utsusemi, and you responded again saying it furthered your point. Remember that Dowzer was saying that most war's 'could' flawlessly Utsusemi:Ichi tank in response to your statement that it was them not having the correct gear. You said this proved your point even further, again why I asked for clarification as follows:
JAMAL said:
Ruffyreborn said:
The reason 99% of the war's suck at tanking is because they dont gear for it
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Dowzer said:
Warrior can Utsusemi: Ichi tank flawlessly with a BRD and RDM when Elegy and Slow are stacked.
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Ruffyreborn said:
Which then in turn further proves my point
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Am I missing something here? Dowzer's statement doesn't prove your point. A Warrior uses haste gear primarily to reduce delay on attacks, which also reduces utsusemi timers. A WAR receives 0 benefit from +EVA gear, because the base EVA skill is incredibly low.

Any WAR can :ichi tank fine with what Dowzer stated, and having haste gear enhances it, which they are using anyway. How does that make 99% of WARs suck at tanking for not having the gear for it?
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I asked a simple question. But rather than getting an answer, your next post was this:
Ruffyreborn said:
What chinis said.

And also, have you no idea what a WAR/MNK wearing koenig is? uhm...
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This is where things went to shit. I simply asked you to clarify a statement, and you throw out a ridiculous 'example' of a WAR not having the correct gear to tank.

Call me a pompous ass all you want, but again, following the logical flow throughout the thread, my questioning was justified. Instead of clarifying your ridiculous statements, you said that I misinterpreted. When Dowzer replies to your statement about WAR's sucking at tanking because of lacking the proper gear sets, then you reply to that post, logically I would assume the point you were trying to further was the post Dowzer quoted.
 
Zethren said:
I PTed with this guy the other night. He must have a really small dick as he couldn't hold hate if his life depended on it. When I gave him pointers all he did was get pissed and upset and said things like, "lul I been playing for yrs, don't tell me how to do my job"

Thanks a lot for wasting my time asshole

WOREST PLAYER.... EVER
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You shouldn't talk about your mother like that Zeth ;;
 
I'm not, I'm talking about you :|
 
Bajaratt said:
No, it's pretty much exclusively a hate tool. The flash is a bonus, but it's so short lived that you might dodge one attack round. It's purely a hate tool, not a strong blind with a bunch of hate tagged on.
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Actually, I'd have to disagree. Yes, it is a good hate tool, but it is also a very useful spell. A few examples;

1) Your tank just got hit by a shadow-wiping ability or w/e, and only utsu:ichi is ready. So you flash the enemy in order to help your tank get shadows up.
2) Arrapago boss; you flash it when you see him redying Mortal Revolution, thus causing the move to miss, saving both time and MP due to you having prevented a possibility of 1000 damage to your melees and MNK's

There are many, many more examples that you could use. Used at the right time, Flash can be both a life saver and MP saver. It is a double-edged sword, though, in that it can both be a blessing and a curse.

Flash, however, is also similar to Stun. It have several "resistance" levels, like Drain and Aspir do. It is hard to get it completely resisted, but is possible. If it gets 1/8 resisted, it'll basically wear off soon as it hits, resulting in the "wear off" message occurring before the "Xxx is blinded/stunned" occurs. When it goes completely unresisted, which can happen quite often with H.Q thunder/light staff, magic accuracy, INT/MND and +Divine/Dark magic, it can last several seconds. Iunno about you, but I always macro in Divine/MND/staff/magic accuracy for Flash, and dark/INT/staff/magic accuracy for Stun =/
 
Khajit said:
So any whm that uses flash when the nin doesnt have shadows up to allow the nin to get them back up is a bad whm now?
If it was purely a hate tool it wouldn't even need to have the blind tacked on.
We the playerbase just happen to exclusively use it as a hate tool similar to how people use gravity for kiting and never think of the -eva benefits from it.
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If you're constantly throwing out flash as a whm, yeah, you're a bad whm. It's useful to throw out in a pinch, yes, but the blind effect doesn't last anywhere near long enough to warrant constant use(a couple seconds is only enough for one hate round, unless hundred fists is involved); without even counting the amount of hate you'd be generating. Baring unfortunate TP moves, your ninja shouldn't have any problems at all keeping shadows up. Stun is a vastly more effective spell for it's effect, on top of it's hate.

They had to put an effect on the spell, because otherwise it would just be a magic-based provoke and they wouldn't add that kind of spell into the game. It's a hate tool, you can use it as a desperation "please don't hit them and kill them" spell, but you can do the exact same thing with provoke.
 
Flash is useful when I have hate and I can't get another set of shadows up. White Mages who aren't willing to throw out a flash are shitty and/or lazy.
 
Antor said:
Flash is useful when I have hate and I can't get another set of shadows up. White Mages who aren't willing to throw out a flash are shitty and/or lazy.
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Yes, they should throw it out then, but how often does that situation even come up? If it's enough to warrant constant use of the spell, the problem isn't with the whm.

Flash is a desperation spell for anyone other than a paladin, because of the limitedness of the blind effect and the massive hate generated. It's something you throw out when you need to, like cure V, but just like cure V it shouldn't be something that you have to depend on.
 
I think this should be moved to general discussion
 
Baja.. you're forgetting somethign very important.. I never said that a whm should be spamming flash constantly. infact you're arguing for absolutely no reason at all considering the the situations i was referring to are the ones where you yourself said flash was useful.
 
Flash is swell for mobs that use Hundred Fists as well, like dynamis mnks for example, though ideally your stunners are paying attention (which again is why I say it's good since people never pay attention to anything in this game).
 
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