Don't ever kick a person from the party.

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If the check message is so offensive to japanese players why did SE impliment this feature in a japanese game? I've accidently checked japanese players once or twice when I am attempting to heal them or send a quick game tell in party once I got a /slap for doing that. I sent back a 'I'm sorry' not realising I had offended the player I got a 'Take care' in response.

Now on the other hand I once was in a party with a japanese player that sent me a tell asking if it was ok if she checked me? I was quite suprised by that but politely told her yes it was quite allright to do so.

Is examining a fellow gamer here so offensive, isnt this game supposed to inspire teamwork and comaradery across the seas? Heck I feel more offended when I go to rent a chocobo and the stable npc seems to know exactly how much I am carrying in total gil lol.

This game has a filter system, like other spam in the game if you do not wish to see people checking you turn off that annoying check message. Just play the game and dont worry about what others are doing around you.
 
Heck I feel more offended when I go to rent a chocobo and the stable npc seems to know exactly how much I am carrying in total gil lol.

Yeah, or when Sandy's prick NPCs tell me to "Piss off, foreigner." :biggrin:

I don't check someone without asking first unless I know it is a friend who doesn't mind. Seems like a simple enough rule of thumb to go by to me. It's a simple gesture really that takes all of two seconds and could make the difference between someone being offended and not.
 
Yeah, or when Sandy's prick NPCs tell me to "Piss off, foreigner." :biggrin:
LOL its "We dont care for yar thar foreigner types in our small town, now move along thar stranger.." was the small town sherrif about by chance at sandy? :)
 
i think the person who is defending raizon should just meet her and just give a casual check...you'll find out soon enough

just because someone examines your gear(unless it's gimp) doesnt mean it's an offense, usually i want to see what higher tier rdms use,bst,blus,smn,etc. (yes a compliment!)

it's an offense(deserved) if we ask why after checking you, do you have or using dodge earrings as a pld in our 67-68 pt...or wearing a hi breath mantle(all the time)
 
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I only read the first 2 pages, but there IS a chat filter that prevents you from seeing who checks you. I could give a shit less if someone checks me really.

Also, to the member whos name I cannot see because I don't install the language packs...There is a ton of different gear in this game at level 75, not everyone wears the same things. Just yesterday I saw a PLD with a bunch of Homam gear that I'd never seen. If I was him, I'd be glad that people checked me and saw that I was packin heat. Isn't that what people strive for in this game? Why do you need the omgleet gear? To show it off, whether in battle, or by sight. Other than that, its not so useful.
 
And after reading more, I think Jeska said it better... ( '-')d

If the check message is so offensive to japanese players why did SE impliment this feature in a japanese game? I've accidently checked japanese players once or twice when I am attempting to heal them or send a quick game tell in party once I got a /slap for doing that. I sent back a 'I'm sorry' not realising I had offended the player I got a 'Take care' in response.

Now on the other hand I once was in a party with a japanese player that sent me a tell asking if it was ok if she checked me? I was quite suprised by that but politely told her yes it was quite allright to do so.

Is examining a fellow gamer here so offensive, isnt this game supposed to inspire teamwork and comaradery across the seas? Heck I feel more offended when I go to rent a chocobo and the stable npc seems to know exactly how much I am carrying in total gil lol.

This game has a filter system, like other spam in the game if you do not wish to see people checking you turn off that annoying check message. Just play the game and dont worry about what others are doing around you.
 
i think the person who is defending raizon should just meet her and just give a casual check...you'll find out soon enough

just because someone examines your gear(unless it's gimp) doesnt mean it's an offense, usually i want to see what higher tier rdms use,bst,blus,smn,etc. (yes a compliment!)

it's an offense(deserved) if we ask why after checking you, do you have or using dodge earrings as a pld in our 67-68 pt...or wearing a hi breath mantle(all the time)

You examined me when I was afk earlier today. You are so lucky I was afk, because I would have spam checked the shit out of you.
 
You examined me when I was afk earlier today. You are so lucky I was afk, because I would have spam checked the shit out of you.

/feels complimented

;)
 
I can understand how in the Japanese version, the message it gives can be taken offensively (since in retrospect, someone getting up to your face and looking you over would be invasive)

...But the thing is, it's just a game. And with cultural differences, many of which people just don't understand, it's something you need to bite the bullet with at times. Many people just don't, nor will they ever, see the harm in checking someone, especially because, well, it's just a game. It reminds you of this every time you log on and everything. Why take something that is programmed to be said inside the game so seriously? I mean it's not like it's an eroge/dating SIM or something. It's not like the message you received is "soandso bursts forth in a dozen tentacles and has his way with you" or something.

...People may be unintentionally rude, and people for the most part are very sorry when they are. But it certainly doesn't give anyone the right to stand there shouting profanities, or insults, or telling them to go die...I mean, could you imagine this circumstance in real life in your community? Someone does something slightly (or even very) rude to you...do you really think standing there, screaming at the guy for half an hour would be the right thing to do? Do you think repeatedly telling them to die would be the right thing to do?

It just seems like that kind of behavior is completely overreacting...
 
"soandso bursts forth in a dozen tentacles and has his way with you"

I *totally* want a hack that changes the /check message to that.
 
Intercultural communication is, ultimately, a two-way street. What does *not* work fairly, is one side going "ok, this is how I see and do things, deal with it". (What *really* doesn't work at all, is both sides doing that.)

What *does* work is each side going "so you know, this is how I do things, but I understand that that is how *you* do things, and I'll try to be understanding and respectful of you ... assuming that, in general, you will do the same to me". Keeping in mind though, that if that assumption *doesn't* pan out? (The "you" isn't respectful or understanding.) Then it's just like the non-working case above, where one side doesn't even try.

In this case:

Raizondetre should turn on the chat filter that turns off the check messages, if it bugs her (or is this person a guy? think I saw a "she" earlier, so ...). It saves her from being annoyed by being checked. It saves everyone else from her reactions. It's a win-win situation and everyone, including Raizondetre herself, should be not only okay with the solution, but *happy* with the solution.

If she chooses not to turn on that filter, then what she sees because of that, and how she reacts because of that, is her own responsibility. Intercultural differences do not make her exempt from her own responsibility. Nor does anything in Japanese culture (specifically, in this case) allow for, much less encourage, being irresponsible for your own actions. As far as I know.

As for party expectations, booting, and so on, that's more of an arguable gray area, and I can understand the conflict of cultural expectations in that case. Having said that, the most sensible option overall is as Uzor said earlier: go with the cultural expectations of the majority of the party.

If it's a primarily JP party, then stick together until the party disbands, even if someone isn't pulling their weight. I don't particularly agree with this mentality (I *am* NA), but I can see it, understand it, and respect it, if I'm in a primarily JP party. In JP parties, I do not find replacements for myself, and I try not to leave until I really have to, because I know the party is probably going to disband when I do. And I put up with a party even if it's not really up to my personal standards.

If it's a primarily NA party, then everyone should pull their own weight, or at least respond when criticized, or risk being removed in favor of someone that would result in the *party* being better off. Because to NAs, if you are perceived to be bad, if you don't respond and improve (or at least explain yourself) upon criticism, then a party leader can come to the conclusion that the party will be better off with someone more useful instead. From an NA perspective, someone who doesn't do their job right and who doesn't listen to advice about doing their job better, is a waste of a party slot, and the party is better off without them.

This mentality isn't arbitrarily "better" than the JP mentality, but it is still quite common among NA parties, and it's important for anyone (NA or JP) to know to expect this of those parties. Just like it's important for anyone (NA or JP) to know what to expect of JP parties.

(It's also important to note: people usually don't get booted for being a little below average. Usually if someone gets booted for being a poor player, they're not just a little below average. They're really bad. *REALLY* bad. So if you get booted from a party, it occasionally means the party leader's an idiot, but it much more often means that you *really* need to work on self-improvement.)

A NA player in a primarily JP party, should not expect the party to weed out poor players, like a NA party would. A JP player in a primarily NA party, should not expect the party to put up with them until disbanding, like a JP party would. In either case, if the player *does* expect that, then they're a fool to force their own expectations on a party, when they are in the minority in that party.

And for either NA or JP, spamming someone with tells from multiple mules for half an hour, is childish, and there is no good and mature reason to do it. :P

In this case, we have a player who happens to be JP, and who has unreasonable expectations of, and reactions (and overreactions) to, NA parties. The solution in this case is for the JP player in question to be more understanding of the NA culture. The solution is *not* to have NAs everywhere bend over backwards to please this one inflexible JP player.

If the situation were reversed, and it was an inflexible NA player in a JP party, unreasonably bringing NA expectations to that party, then I would criticize the NA player for being inflexible and say they needed to learn more about how JP parties work.
 
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ユウミ☆;737624 said:
That was a little hyper,
I don't remember saying it like that.
Sorry, but this game is hosted in Japan,
made by a Japanese company, and was
translated from Japanese. It is by nature,
a Japanese game. However, now there are
several different clients. I thought that
statement was a little off. Since nobody
talks like that, and I seem to be the only one
who hasn't gotten all emotional about it. Basically
stating the facts of what happened. I don't really
appreciate your post, since I haven't done
anything to personally attack you or anyone else.
I'm allowed to defend my friend, and why
most of "Jp" get put-off/offended/whatever you
want to call it.

EN/EU players are not guests in a JP game. This game has been designed for a global market. Adopting the notion that this is a JP game is just plain wrong. While it was first released in Japan, it was never intended as a Japanese only game. Maybe this is in fact the real reason JP players disdain EU/EN players. That we have no right to be in THEIR game. (A bit dramatic, but used for emphasis)

Yuumi, your arguments seem a little flawed. Sure, it's ok for a JP player to be offended at something, get angry, and break basic game rules by spamming death tells to another player for over 30 minutes, but it's certainly not ok for a NA to use an in game feature.

ユウミ☆;737624 said:
there are plenty
of NA players, why don't you just check
people who you know won't get upset?

There is no way to differentiate between peoples nationalities in the game, unless they have a /seacom written in their native language.

I highly doubt that the check comment a Japanese player receives is so offensive it warrants the kind of response it sometimes does. If it were so, SE would have changed it a long time ago. You ask us to respect that JP players don't like to be checked, well, it's a two way street. You need to respect that there two other major cultures that play this game (NA and EU)that have different ideals and moral beliefs, and yes, in some of them, it's ok to utilize an inoffensive in game feature.
 
Talk about intolerance. =/

"THIS R JP GAME, RESPEK JP CULTUREZ" or something along those lines.



ユウミ☆;737624 said:
That was a little hyper,
I don't remember saying it like that.
Sorry, but this game is hosted in Japan,
made by a Japanese company, and was
translated from Japanese. It is by nature,
a Japanese game. However, now there are
several different clients. I thought that
statement was a little off. Since nobody
talks like that, and I seem to be the only one
who hasn't gotten all emotional about it. Basically
stating the facts of what happened. I don't really
appreciate your post, since I haven't done
anything to personally attack you or anyone else.
I'm allowed to defend my friend, and why
most of "Jp" get put-off/offended/whatever you
want to call it.

I don't know, aside from that post
this thread has been fairly clean and
in control, I guess I just wish you didn't
feel the urgent need to mock me or "JP"
for having that sentiment, there are plenty
of NA players, why don't you just check
people who you know won't get upset?

PS:
I like the sad face,
followed by a totally rude remark,
that was clever.

Those actually aren't my
'credentials' I have what jobs I
enjoy playing, I don't see any numbers
in that post, or links to my super awesome
gear that nobody cares about.
I really cease to see your point
other than the fact you came in here
to insult someone who hasn't done anything
to you.

I believe Tag was responding to the following:

ユウミ☆;737624 said:
......
"wow update ur gears lolz"
......
From what I saw
"lolz the cor is like sucky"
"ya i kick him rite4 now gimmie ldr"
"k lolz , finally! w meripowwwwwwwww!"

This was an exaggeration of what Uzor's /tell's actually stated. I'm sure you were upset when you said this, but understand, it makes it seem that all english speaking players (note that Uzor is NOT NA {North American}, lol) speak this way. Just thought I'd give you perspective on this. Also, as to your comment about this game being "hosted" in Japan, keep in mind, there are servers here in the US, and I'm sure in Europe as well. It may have started as a Japaneese game, but it has since "evolved" to a global one.


Look at even the in-game cultures, yes there are japaneese based ideals, stories, and jobs, but the game does not stop there. San'dorians all appear to have French names, Aht Urghan obviously has it's roots in middle-eastern cultures, hell I think Bastok actually resembles maybe an early United States in some sense (one of the leading countries in technology, and one of the current "people's" that reside there used to be forced into servitude).


Anyway, I've rambled on to much (especially that last paragraph). I think Uzor covered everything that needed to be covered.
 
I was in a merit PT with Raizondetre the other day. Horrible player. I dunno if she was passing out at the PC or what, but after an hour or so of Evokers on our healer and the occasional chaos roll (maybe every 15min or so we got one or the other), the leader ended up kicking her. She then got into a /shouting match with some guy in the PT, and a /tell fight with the leader.

Really mature player.
 
LOL, there's nothing to even discuss here.
Cultural differences...I'd say cultural differences are only a fraction of the real issue here. This individual, not an entire culture, is the person that is clearly in the wrong.

Better to move on than /fume over it and stalk someone incessantly, across several mules, like a complete lunatic.

Go ahead and keep defending that though. I'll go ahead and keep right on not giving a shit for people like that, and the people that senselessly defend such actions. Nobody needs to take the time to understand why this looney-toon went off the deep end, especially if she won't take the time to understand the flipside. There are two sides to every story. Her one sided views will get her nowhere in game, and in life.

I'm sure she's not all bad. She's just the kind of person that does stuff like this...
 
LOL, there's nothing to even discuss here.
Cultural differences...I'd say cultural differences are only a fraction of the real issue here. This individual, not an entire culture, is the person that is clearly in the wrong.

Better to move on than /fume over it and stalk someone incessantly, across several mules, like a complete lunatic.

Go ahead and keep defending that though. I'll go ahead and keep right on not giving a shit for people like that, and the people that senselessly defend such actions. Nobody needs to take the time to understand why this looney-toon went off the deep end, especially if she won't take the time to understand the flipside. There are two sides to every story. Her one sided views will get her nowhere in game, and in life.

I'm sure she's not all bad. She's just the kind of person that does stuff like this...

Topic was over a while ago
actually. It just turned into a debate.
I don't see how it's your right to tell someone
they're going nowhere in life, over a forum.
A little silly.

Anyways, I hope this thread is officially dead,
the link to the blog was funny,
I guess Rai is a little irrational.

PS:
Chat filters can make for a lot less
drama. I still vote for flame threads to get
locked, I don't see any point in
stirring the pot. Probably the last time
I post in one of these(^^')

[final edit]
I think this person is being
taken way too seriously.
This whole drama was taken a little
far, I can't believe it turned into a 5+ page
debate over one person none of us
care to know.
 
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ユウミ☆;736900 said:
Just because the 'feature' is there,
doesn't mean it has to be misused.

Coming into this thread kind of late, but hey its ok because I'm an oafish mentally retarded NA player! I just really wanted to ask what the supposed "correct" use of check was?

Don't say to get to a bazaar, if that was true why didn't SE just make you jump straight to the bazaar menu? Its in the game to look at gear. Pure and simple. Even if the JP version is as "offensive" as people claim it to be... so what? 1) It is a video game. 2) It is one line of TEXT in a video game, one of which can be easily blocked using another in game feature. It could say "Newby McNewberton eye rapes until his eyes fall out of his socket and starts drooling on you" and wouldn't bother me in the slightest. Because... its text... in a video game.

And yet this debate continues to this day. I just can't understand going off the handle like that for a line of text in a video game. Then again, I'm NA and apparently devoid of manners, morales, and anything resembling common sense.
 
Part of the reason people are responding with such amazement isn't just that Japanese are offended by being checked, but that Raizon flew off the handle in what can truly be termed a spectacular way. I've almost never seen a player lose control on that level, and it's something that has been documented several times in my memory on these same forums.

And certainly I'm surprised by Yuuki's antagonism, given that there have been more people responding thoughtfully to this thread than "zomg JPs sukk!" types, which is my guess as to why it hasn't been moved to the Flameboard.

I've had parties with Japanese players where I have respectfully toed the line and still had them disband on me in an hour because someone's "tired." I've had "gaijin" slung at me so many times that I almost forget the word is offensive. I've had my Japanese partymates openly talk about me in Japanese, both to the positive and the negative. And I've had amazingly good Japanese parties as well, and convinced all-Japanese teams to let me join them for ZMs, KS99s, CoP missions, and all manner of things that usually Japanese players won't invite random NAs to.

Rudeness is a two-way street, as is cultural sensitivity. And certainly there are as many boors in Japan as elsewhere, even if they express it differently. I won't argue that Americans (and European players) can be loud, insensitive, and idiotic brutes, and did Uzor need to kick her like that? I don't know. But it's painfully obvious that Raizon is a -crazy bitch.-
 
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