Don't give advice unless YOU are a good player!
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Moev said:
hey, ill do the tanking or curing, ive tanked "Bodach" (Asuran Fight NM) with only Ichi ;P (my blm was 16 and i tankd great, no deaths!) and i will do the curing, ive done it in a pt many times with 1 rdm 1 blm (rdm was elvaan, hardly any mp), so i cured
Re: LOL you guys are nuts
You're one of those closed minded people aren't you? Ever heard of Counter tanking?
Also, all this WAR can't tank crap is the same reason Mithe took WAR/MNK into 60's, tanking all the way(Spare the few times I was his tank). He did a damn good job too. So spare us this 'omg ur a n00b u cant do that its not teh cookie cuttar way!'
Back on flame topic, sorry man, but he had every right to bitch about Slow not being stuck. You should definately be able to land Slow on crabs...Like Fire said, get an alt set for MND+ just for those White Magic enfeebles.
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Cythe - Rank 10
Hume Male
75 Paladin
Moev said:
You're one of those closed minded people aren't you? Ever heard of Counter tanking?
Also, all this WAR can't tank crap is the same reason Mithe took WAR/MNK into 60's, tanking all the way(Spare the few times I was his tank). He did a damn good job too. So spare us this 'omg ur a n00b u cant do that its not teh cookie cuttar way!'
Back on flame topic, sorry man, but he had every right to bitch about Slow not being stuck. You should definately be able to land Slow on crabs...Like Fire said, get an alt set for MND+ just for those White Magic enfeebles.
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Cythe - Rank 10
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75 Paladin
Lol black with an elvan rdm you would have to. I didn't say it wasn't possible. If you were however leveling up your BLm to 75 would you want to be the main healer or tank every time? Would be kind of hard to raise all your skills for BLM if you did.
ThatGuyIDon'tKnow
1. We are talking about solo tanking with WAR, not counter tanking with a second provoke.
2. We are talking about WAR/NIN not WAR/MNK.
Call it whatever you want, it doesn't change the fact that an exp party needs a few key jobs in order to gain any worthwhile exp. This is the normal setup way of doing things. The reason they call it normal is because the average player (key word average) works best in this type of situation.
I don't know Mithe, they could be the best WAR/MNK that ever lived. Still doesn't change the fact that if you took ten average WAR/MNK's, 10 average PLD's, and 10 average NIN's all same level and fighting the same mob more then likely the exp per hour would be better for the parties with either a NIN or PLD tank.
Mithe could be the exception to the rule. Nobody said that a WAR can't tank either since I know a few WAR's who do main tank solo. I said it isn't the best way to do things and that it requires certain gear above level 51.
Almost any job in the game in theory could tank. Doesn't mean it is the best way of doing things. If you don't care about exp, go ahead get your friends and have fun. On the flipside don't bitch when your sitting around with a job that isn't the norm and can't get a party.
You also stated one person who took a WAR/MNK in the 60's and tank all the way. Are you trying to say that you think every person is able to do so and do well in a party without hurting the exp?
You say I am close minded, when in fact I am not. However you sound like one of these ignorant people who are more concerned with your own personal goals for whatever job your playing and how you want to play it, rather then the actual exp and what's best for the party. It's called being a team player and putting the party before yourself. I feel sorry for the 5 people who get into a pickup party with people like you, when they actually care about their time and getting some real exp.
Your probally one of those people who thinks that 2-3k exp per hour is good.
1. We are talking about solo tanking with WAR, not counter tanking with a second provoke.
2. We are talking about WAR/NIN not WAR/MNK.
Call it whatever you want, it doesn't change the fact that an exp party needs a few key jobs in order to gain any worthwhile exp. This is the normal setup way of doing things. The reason they call it normal is because the average player (key word average) works best in this type of situation.
I don't know Mithe, they could be the best WAR/MNK that ever lived. Still doesn't change the fact that if you took ten average WAR/MNK's, 10 average PLD's, and 10 average NIN's all same level and fighting the same mob more then likely the exp per hour would be better for the parties with either a NIN or PLD tank.
Mithe could be the exception to the rule. Nobody said that a WAR can't tank either since I know a few WAR's who do main tank solo. I said it isn't the best way to do things and that it requires certain gear above level 51.
Almost any job in the game in theory could tank. Doesn't mean it is the best way of doing things. If you don't care about exp, go ahead get your friends and have fun. On the flipside don't bitch when your sitting around with a job that isn't the norm and can't get a party.
You also stated one person who took a WAR/MNK in the 60's and tank all the way. Are you trying to say that you think every person is able to do so and do well in a party without hurting the exp?
You say I am close minded, when in fact I am not. However you sound like one of these ignorant people who are more concerned with your own personal goals for whatever job your playing and how you want to play it, rather then the actual exp and what's best for the party. It's called being a team player and putting the party before yourself. I feel sorry for the 5 people who get into a pickup party with people like you, when they actually care about their time and getting some real exp.
Your probally one of those people who thinks that 2-3k exp per hour is good.
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Moev said:
i did tons of tanking (remember, im a taru blm, that seems to overnuke to much haha) and curing is fun
Moev said:
Moev said:
Hm, you brought up MNK. I brought up Counter tanking to oppose you saying MNK can't tank. Well, ridiculing that someone thinks it can.
Moev said:
Tell that to all of the 6k+ an hour parties I've put together on almost every job I've played past 20. But yea, if I got 2-3k an hour because nothing better was available, I wouldn't whine like a baby about it either. So at least you're right in one sense.
LMAO... black... tho' your posts are crap and worthless (samething i guess) your pics make me laugh... you should just have a dedicated thread for all your dumb ass pics and just continously post there... HAHAHA...
gayfer
gayfer
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ultraseven said:
hahaha thanks, i guess
meet my friend, Mistah-Gayfer!
ThatGuyIDon'tKnow
Wow you need glasses or something? I said exactly what you quoted, about the noob thf telling me a MNK can tank. A MNK stupid, not a WAR/MNK.
Then again I can see your confusion on this matter since your one of these people who think a SJ turns your MJ into your SJ. I guess in your mixed up head a MNK/WAR = a WAR/MNK.
Your point on counter tanking is umm well pointless. A WHM/NIN can be a main tank in a exp party with someone to counter tank, idiot. Any job can tank with a counter tank. It is a total waste of a member in a party and slows down the exp. With the exception of WAR if you can't handle tanking solo by level 50-60 you shouldn't be a tank, period.
Your braging about 6K per hour exp? I guess that says it all about you. Do yourself a favor and just stop posting and making yourself look like an even bigger fool.
Wow you need glasses or something? I said exactly what you quoted, about the noob thf telling me a MNK can tank. A MNK stupid, not a WAR/MNK.
Then again I can see your confusion on this matter since your one of these people who think a SJ turns your MJ into your SJ. I guess in your mixed up head a MNK/WAR = a WAR/MNK.
Your point on counter tanking is umm well pointless. A WHM/NIN can be a main tank in a exp party with someone to counter tank, idiot. Any job can tank with a counter tank. It is a total waste of a member in a party and slows down the exp. With the exception of WAR if you can't handle tanking solo by level 50-60 you shouldn't be a tank, period.
Your braging about 6K per hour exp? I guess that says it all about you. Do yourself a favor and just stop posting and making yourself look like an even bigger fool.
Although it does make most people more likely to listen, I don't think that being good at something should be a requirement for giving advice about that something, and it certainly should not be a requirement for giving advice about something else. "Don't try and tell me how to play piano. Why not? Because I know you suck at baking cookies." Some people have excellent ideas but might suck at explaining them or executing them. The world would be a better place if we all made more effort to meet such people halfway. Some people might be great at playing rdm and have good advice for rdms, but maybe not be so great at the job they're playing while giving the advice.
That said, after I'd explained that slow just wasn't sticking very well, and the person continued to mention it, I'd have verbally torn them 8.95 new assholes, and if that didn't work, I'd have typed things that would have them afraid to go to sleep for the next week (real-time) or so.
That said, after I'd explained that slow just wasn't sticking very well, and the person continued to mention it, I'd have verbally torn them 8.95 new assholes, and if that didn't work, I'd have typed things that would have them afraid to go to sleep for the next week (real-time) or so.
Moev said:
This makes no sense. Do you even know what a Counter tank does? Honestly, I don't think you have a goddamn clue.
And no, I'm not bragging, I was pointing out to you that your assumption was pretty off base. Well, ok just about completely off base. So if you're going to post and act all high and mighty, like you know everything, you should make sure you do first.
MNKs can counter, and with enough counter gear on them (Avenger Earrings, Aikido Koshita, CC's, etc) they can make a pretty competent tank. It's not impossible, and I know of some groups that actually have used MNKs for tanks in xp parties.
That's what Cythe meant by Counter Tanking.
oh, and although I believe Cythe does brag way to much about endgame, I do have to say he is very helpful to those who really needs it, and is very well respected by many of the ppl around this server. I definitely wouldn't call him ignorant, and concerned with how he wants to play his job either, he's a PLD/WAR, like every other PLD on this server, and as a PLD he is always puts the party before himself.
well that's my piece
That's what Cythe meant by Counter Tanking.
oh, and although I believe Cythe does brag way to much about endgame, I do have to say he is very helpful to those who really needs it, and is very well respected by many of the ppl around this server. I definitely wouldn't call him ignorant, and concerned with how he wants to play his job either, he's a PLD/WAR, like every other PLD on this server, and as a PLD he is always puts the party before himself.
well that's my piece
Damn where to start?!?
Moev, you're a complete dumbass, but thanks for your two cents nonetheless :wink: Anyone who is War/Nin is prepared to tank, also a War, Drk, Whm, Rdm, Thf (hmm forget the sixth cuz we changed so much throughout, but a filler anywho) is not a Noob party. Not an ideal party because we didn't have an ideal tank, but not a bad party at least with what we were given. I'm sure everyone knows how hard it is to find a tank nowadays.
ThatGuyYouKnow.... some good advice that was given, i'll take it to heart and make some adjustments
Asanarama... also a very good point you made that i hadn't considered before posting
Really the original flame wasn't that she was a bad tank, she really wasn't half bad considering what we were working with. Honestly looking back now i think i was more aggrivated that she was complaining about my enfeebs, all the while i was busy spamming cures to keep her alive. Like i mentioned before i attempt on each mob enfeebles at start and if one doesn't stick the first five mobs or so, then I ONLY cast it when Elem Seal is ready to save mp.
Moev, you're a complete dumbass, but thanks for your two cents nonetheless :wink: Anyone who is War/Nin is prepared to tank, also a War, Drk, Whm, Rdm, Thf (hmm forget the sixth cuz we changed so much throughout, but a filler anywho) is not a Noob party. Not an ideal party because we didn't have an ideal tank, but not a bad party at least with what we were given. I'm sure everyone knows how hard it is to find a tank nowadays.
ThatGuyYouKnow.... some good advice that was given, i'll take it to heart and make some adjustments
Asanarama... also a very good point you made that i hadn't considered before posting
Really the original flame wasn't that she was a bad tank, she really wasn't half bad considering what we were working with. Honestly looking back now i think i was more aggrivated that she was complaining about my enfeebs, all the while i was busy spamming cures to keep her alive. Like i mentioned before i attempt on each mob enfeebles at start and if one doesn't stick the first five mobs or so, then I ONLY cast it when Elem Seal is ready to save mp.
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Moev said:
hmmm so you mean
*ps, the taru is me*
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scrumpy said:
sorry, but I would have done the same thing as your tank. A war/nin can indeed solo tank, BUT they need more PT support in order to do it well. Any good tank needs PT support but even more so for jobs that are not the best at tanking.
The reason for slow specifically is not exactly all about keeping shadows up longer, helping you get to the next available set of shadows. Althought that is a LARGE part of it there is also a major issue from the cast time itslef. Without slow, casting Ichi can become a question more about luck than timing or skill. Haste has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. The problem is the mob needs to not attack within the casting time. Otherwise, not only is your Ichi getting interrupted, making it almost MEANINGLESS to even sub NIN in the first place, but at the same time YOU AREN'T attacking which means now you also have a hate problem. I'm not saying it is impossible to tank under these circumstances but it is MUCH harder and much more dangerous for the tank. If that was me I'd be pretty scared. Eva gear helps to hold shadows but WARs are not going to be that concerned about evasion. They are pretty darn good DDs when well equipped. So if, under these circumstances, you have a WAR tanking, they're gonna get pummeled and they're not going to be able to do great damage. They're going to need defender, forget about berserk, its just not good. And there is truly no comparison between war/nin and nin/war when it comes to shadows. None.
As a Nin I first cast blind and slow. THEN paralyze. Why? Because paralyze doesn't hit every action. Slow does. Slow means I have a better chance of getting my shadows back up between swings while paralyze makes it more of a lottery. You don't know when paralyze is going to take effect for a particular swing so its only lucky if that happens when you happen to be casting Ichi.
Comparing Ichi to NI would be.... ridiculous. The chances of Ichi being successfully cast while getting hit are like... um... pretty damn small considering a hard hitting mob. Ni, on the other hand, you can get hit and have a better chance of still casting it. Getting hit while casting ichi is almost a wast of time. A war/nin is going to give you a different balance between hp loss/damage dealt/ and attacks evaded, not be as good as a nin in attacks evaded or as good as a pld in hp loss.
And if for whatever reason it becomes difficult for me to tank a certain mob (resistant to my debuffs or whatever) best believe I'm going to be communicating with my RDM about it.
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moev:Your post was almost as funny to me when this noob thf try'd to tell me that a MNK can tank.
MNK can tank but they're not the best. And I think your point was really about the best which is PLD or NIN. MNK... yeah, but they 1. cannot heal 2. cannot debuff. 3.cant save this difinitively but I doubt counter is as effective as utsusemi ichi+ni. 4. MNKs have a lot of HP but I've seen it get used up fast.
moev:A WHM/NIN can be a main tank in a exp party with someone to counter tank, idiot.
um... how would they ever... and I mean ever get hate? But your overall point is actually well taken. Tanking is a lot easier to do with a co-tank. But this War didn't have a suitable backup plus didn't get slow. That's just asking for trouble. And for the love of God, nin sub does not equal nin. Ever.
Fact is subjobs are meant to "compliment" the main job for whatever purposes you use the main job for. It's not 2 jobs in one. And if your sub doesn't compliment your main you will see how useless and feeble it really is compared to having it as your main. So you are right on those points.
MNK can tank but they're not the best. And I think your point was really about the best which is PLD or NIN. MNK... yeah, but they 1. cannot heal 2. cannot debuff. 3.cant save this difinitively but I doubt counter is as effective as utsusemi ichi+ni. 4. MNKs have a lot of HP but I've seen it get used up fast.
moev:A WHM/NIN can be a main tank in a exp party with someone to counter tank, idiot.
um... how would they ever... and I mean ever get hate? But your overall point is actually well taken. Tanking is a lot easier to do with a co-tank. But this War didn't have a suitable backup plus didn't get slow. That's just asking for trouble. And for the love of God, nin sub does not equal nin. Ever.
Fact is subjobs are meant to "compliment" the main job for whatever purposes you use the main job for. It's not 2 jobs in one. And if your sub doesn't compliment your main you will see how useless and feeble it really is compared to having it as your main. So you are right on those points.
Zealot...
Wow I am so impressed right now. Someone who can actually read and comprehend english. It seems a few of our fellow posters lack in those area's.
The reason why mnk does not make a very good tank, (tank as in main tank) is because they have lower def and (please forgive me mnk's) im not a mnk so I forget what it is called but that ability that lowers their def and increase their attacks. Not boost but the other one, maybe its boost I can't really remember but whichever mnk is not built to withstand damage for any great lenght of time on a IT exp mob, which is why they have such a huge amount of HP since they are extreemly powerful and often pull hate(without the use of provoke).
My point of how a whm/nin can tank in an exp party was more so something to poke fun at these people who seem to have the way of thinking that anything is possible and is a great idea. How could they hold hate? Simply they couldn't so that is why they would need a counter tank lol. When it comes to skilling up that is another matter.
Personally I feel while skilling up a weapon in the ranges of 100-200 whm/nin is the most effective tank (as long as they are skilling club). Simply because at this level your most likely fighting beetles in the nest or crabs in either kuftal or the tree. Your whm would be dual weilding Lilith's rods to regain MP, Ut:ichi helps in controling hate (not so much after this update) along with flash. Also with 2 clubs your able to gain TP faster and WS more often then just one club. Also keep in mind the rest of the people skilling are in your level range using weapons that aren't usually thier main weapon and cause less damage.
After 200 you normally move upto the tougher steelshells in the 2nd level of the tree. These crabs do way more damage and make it extreemly hard for a whm to effectivly tank and hold hate. Anyway this has gone off topic.
Also i'd like to clarify the noob I was speaking of told me this while I was on my brd that was like level 36-40 at the time. Who wanted to go fight beetles in the nest with a mnk as main tank with no counter tank.
Wow I am so impressed right now. Someone who can actually read and comprehend english. It seems a few of our fellow posters lack in those area's.
The reason why mnk does not make a very good tank, (tank as in main tank) is because they have lower def and (please forgive me mnk's) im not a mnk so I forget what it is called but that ability that lowers their def and increase their attacks. Not boost but the other one, maybe its boost I can't really remember but whichever mnk is not built to withstand damage for any great lenght of time on a IT exp mob, which is why they have such a huge amount of HP since they are extreemly powerful and often pull hate(without the use of provoke).
My point of how a whm/nin can tank in an exp party was more so something to poke fun at these people who seem to have the way of thinking that anything is possible and is a great idea. How could they hold hate? Simply they couldn't so that is why they would need a counter tank lol. When it comes to skilling up that is another matter.
Personally I feel while skilling up a weapon in the ranges of 100-200 whm/nin is the most effective tank (as long as they are skilling club). Simply because at this level your most likely fighting beetles in the nest or crabs in either kuftal or the tree. Your whm would be dual weilding Lilith's rods to regain MP, Ut:ichi helps in controling hate (not so much after this update) along with flash. Also with 2 clubs your able to gain TP faster and WS more often then just one club. Also keep in mind the rest of the people skilling are in your level range using weapons that aren't usually thier main weapon and cause less damage.
After 200 you normally move upto the tougher steelshells in the 2nd level of the tree. These crabs do way more damage and make it extreemly hard for a whm to effectivly tank and hold hate. Anyway this has gone off topic.
Also i'd like to clarify the noob I was speaking of told me this while I was on my brd that was like level 36-40 at the time. Who wanted to go fight beetles in the nest with a mnk as main tank with no counter tank.