DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO

Pompidou said:
Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the controversy wasn't asking for things after they were neglected, but rather, asking for the obvious before the pt even started. I don't think anyone disagreed with BJ after the two battles that he didn't get haste. The devil's advocates on this thread are claiming that such basics shouldn't be reminded to people before giving them a chance to prove they aren't morons. For example, if a paladin isn't using Provoke, and a battle or two goes by, by all means, get on that paladin's case. However, don't remind the paladin to use provoke before the party even starts, as that's just insulting.
Click to expand...

Did you miss the part where she complained for sneaking two whole people, herself and the sam? Wouldnt it be natural to ask her for haste before party started when a Lv 65ish white mage was having problem keeping sneak on more than just herself and died twice? I mean it was not like she had to sneak all 3 melees.

She also said that we all just ran off without her. What she did not mention was that she kept invisible spell on herself in boyhada tree 8) (guess not everything is that obvious). How are we suppose to know that she isnt next to us when she is invisible and says nothing about being lost? Yes, I admit that we were a bit scattered. But both Bj and I were using silent oil. When you are using oil or even just sneaking yourself as mage, you dont just stand there and risk it wearing off in agro zone.

She said we never waited for her weakened status to wear off after 1st death. Did she consider that she died in agro zone and the only next somewhat safe place was our camp? I'm sorry that we did not all stand there and watch her get well. But I only had 5 oils which I all used up before leaving her and head out to safe place. The blm had to practically tractor her all the way to camp before able to raise her again.

After all that, I dont think nin asking to keep haste on himself was too much of an insult.


Ok... sorry to be bitchy... first time fooling around with this flameboard... kinda fun... just wanna add something. :P
 
Rones said:
I would agree with you on the respect issue except for a key factor in this situation DD. The whm failed to show respect to Bj and her fellow party members several times before Bj made his harsh comment. Most people do not return repeated rudeness and disrepect with politeness and respect. Respect is given where it is earned and deserved. She showed no respect to the party, so why should they show it in return?
Click to expand...

Ok.......

What I"m going to say I betting 90% of you will argue me to hell against, but you know what? Its a fact, as I see it anyway. As a leader you need to lead, by example, by being mature, by knowing that most of what goes on is your fault, and knowing at the same time most of what goes on you will get little credit for.

What is your job as a leader Rones?
Is it to fire back and defend your pride, and flame them to hell later? Or to swallow your pride teach your teammates and keep the party going?

The reason why I asked in the begining if he was suggesting or commanding is because I wanted to see if he thought he was being a leader or if he thought of himself as merely a teammate with lead status. Like alot of people they will suggest something and if no one listens they just go with the flow. If you go on telling people that they MUST listen to your suggestion well then I'd assume you see your self as a leader.

As someone else put it "in party suggestion or command is semantecs." Yes it is, but if want your commands to be listened to and you don't want to dish out the consequences of not listening, well.... then you need to be democratic. Not fire back with hurt pride, you need to swallow it, you as leader need to do that because if you don't do it, why should anyone else?
And if you do that, people will leave. When the leader of a party is being an ass about something its a little different than when another teammate is. You tend to feel your not one with the party when that happens and thats when you leave.

I can go on and on and on about why you should be like that as a leader and you can go on and on and on about how "its not fair" how "now I don't want to lead" and all that. But with good leaders comes good parties. This is what I saw from the first post, and this is what I still believe.

If he did not give any attitude at all back, I could see his problem, but he was as guilty as she was. And with him being leader, he was even more guilty. He should have taken it as they both had a disagrement and left it as that.
 
Synical said:
Darkdante said:
My big peev here is people always say they "suggest" things and then when people don't follow suggestion they get mad.
Click to expand...
take the flip side of that you goober. when someone isnt preforming their job to the full benifit of the party, shouldnt the party get mad at them?
i didnt read past this quote insert of yours, im far too tired. but whatever point you were trying to make playing devils advocite for the voiceless whm got lost somewhere along the line.

want to let your nin tank play your party withou haste and have a whm give him attitude for asking for a simple spell?
then lets have our plds not get refresh from their rdms either, and have the rdms scream "DONT ASK ME FOR REFRESH" when the pld with 30 mp requests it.
point is, nins get haste spammed on them just like plds get refresh.
If they Arent getting those spells, then the mages arent doing what they need to do, and need to be directed.
if they get huffy at that direction, they need to get a better grip on whats expected of them in a party.
~Syn
Click to expand...

Well then guess you should read little more into it. I wrote about other stuff too. :wink:
 
Rones said:
Dang DarkDante. Do you enter threads with the sole purpose of disagreement?
Click to expand...

Hopefully I made a good enough arguement for my side this time, if not oh well I tried. <shurg>

And actually, sometimes I do jump into threads with the sole purpose of disagreement. Isn't that what a forum is for? To discuss different views and such? Call me a troll or whatever but I saw something here that I live with everyday :cry: And felt I was qualified :lol: to say something.

Oh well...........
 
crikies

Unbelievable

At the outset and I repeat I never said "Don't tell me what to do" I said "Do I tell you how to tank?" This was said before the first pull. Semantics I know. but don't quote me as saying what i didn't say.

If all he did just ask for haste he would have got it... but felt it was ok to add .. " and don't give me that crap about not telling you how to do your job" He also never stopped there but continued on even after he had haste. There was absolutely no need for him to carry on the way I felt he did. Sure i questioned if he was sure i hadn't hasted..think about it...does he say in all that time prior he never got haste? No he doesn't because he did and knows he did.

Again theres no mention of the length time I somehow, bad whm that I am, managed to keep him in full health and hasted and regenn at the beginning of every fight. as well as the others.

They were in fact hard fast pulls, which is good but not mentioned...a couple of times during the process the puller or the DD was in low health and the NIN didnt take the hate fast enough ... I certainly didnt start abusing him at those times, I just healed.

I didn't just warp it was made clear I was done and out. yes I should have asked if anyone wanted a tele and I didn't so I admit that was wrong as far as that is concerned... that was the first time in 63 lvls I have ever not offered tele's so perhaps thats worth a thought also.

Ultimately, I think you all had to be there before you could even begin to understand what went down. Of course, we are both going to have our biased views of it, why would either of us want to be seen in a bad light.

If you all want to think I'm a lousy whm then thats ok, not the most constructive criticism I have ever heard but good on you and thankyou all the same.

I never brought it to the boards, didn't even know it was here til it was 5 pages long. Futher, I have no idea what Mrbreeze wanted to acheive out of it and still don't. There is a first time for everything and I guess this was mine.

So umm hang draw and quarter me or whatever you lot do but don't ever expect me to sit down and take abuse of another player because he thinks his 12 bucks is worth more than mine ^^
 
DarkDante, I really think you are not understanding one basic thing and for this you are harping on it relentlessly without reason:

DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" is the subject of the flame, yes. But he's flaming someone for saying it, he's not saying it himself. If you read his opening post he states he himself never minds people telling him stuff.

Mielle: I read the log, and I saw exactly how the conversation went. He asked for haste, which he did not have. You decided to argue that he should not have said anything to you about being hasted insinuating that going without haste 2 battles then asking for it on the third is a form of impatience.
I'll tell you something. If asking for haste = an argument from you, then if you and he were in switched positions, and you wanted haste from a ninja, how would you feel if they decided to pick a little verbal tiff with you over it.

If all he did just ask for haste he would have got it... but felt it was ok to add .. " and don't give me that crap about not telling you how to do your job" He also never stopped there but continued on even after he had haste. There was absolutely no need for him to carry on the way I felt he did. Sure i questioned if he was sure i hadn't hasted..think about it...does he say in all that time prior he never got haste? No he doesn't because he did and knows he did.
Click to expand...


This whole thing is ridiculous...

2 battles without haste...
Bjbreeze: Haste plz
Mielle casts haste...
Mielle: I am I am ...crikies
Bjbreeze: if i got any haste in the last 2 fights fights
Bjbreeze: i wouldnt ask u for it
Mielle: you arent lookin then
Mielle: becuase you are 1st haste
Bjbreeze: stop give me the dont tell me how to do ur job crap
Mielle: ok im done
Bjbreeze: i didnt get haste at all till i ask u for 2 fights
Mielle starts casting Warp on Mielle

You were the one who was carrying on, NOT HIM. Because you were arguing with him the fact that he was getting haste, which he wasn't.
What's shown here is, being asked for haste(with a please) = an argument with you. If someone choses to argue back, that they were not wrong to ask you for haste(when after 2 fights with no haste as a Ninja they are certainly not wrong), you will continue to argue with them. Unless they let you win, you'll just warp out. When I as a WHM forget to haste someone(it'll happen sometimes, yes), and they ask for it, I either just shut up and do it, or I do it and say sorry. I don't bicker with them over it, or make sure in the process of getting it I insult them in some way.

Ultimately, I think you all had to be there before you could even begin to understand what went down. Of course, we are both going to have our biased views of it, why would either of us want to be seen in a bad light.
Click to expand...

I didn't have to be there, I read the log so I know exactly how the conversation went, and I noticed in the log the lack of hastes prior to his asking so I will also note his justification in asking for it, and his justification in arguing with you when you decided to pick a fight over it.

This is basically a case of "Don't ever criticize me ever!!! Even when I'm cirticizing you!!!" Because you don't realize it, but it was YOU who was criticizing when you tried to make him sound like an impatient asshole for saying "haste plz."
 
The Whm will be healing you. Got that, Whm? I want cures and lots of them.
Click to expand...

I wish more people would say that to me then i wouldn't forget to do it and people wouldn't get mad when i tell them i only have Raise I.
 
this is just a quick clarification aimed at the people who say a nin asking for haste is like asking a pld to voke......... no. no its not...... Its like telling a rdm that PLD is priority refresh. Which is something that usually Does need to be made clear. Because not all of them know this, or maybe whm was priority in their last pt, or they had 3 blms and it was blm blm blm pld..... never know. But anyway, believe me, ive seen and been in enough pts wherein the whm would haste the RNG over the nin to know that NO, Nin=priority haste is NOT universal knowledge. I myself state this at the beginning of any pt where our tank is a nin.

I suppose if youre insulted by it, that just means that you knew, good for you, you get a cookie and some nice xp ^^. But please dont be a bitch about it, because for every one of You, theres a dozen shitheads that just have no clue.
 
Davio said:
TheGreatJonas said:
Bj, you are wasting your time on these scrubs...especially this whm. dont worry about it.
Click to expand...


Nice name Jonas : ), ThegreatJonas!, DRG!
Click to expand...

0141.jpg

been reading flameboard... tired
 
Bad day or not

Bad day or not, it is clear this Mielle is lacking in the team work and communication department.

I mean come on get real. WTF is this ask me nicely or your not getting it at all kind of crap. To clarify I am not saying you said that Mielle, but actions speak louder then words.

Some people go and exp to make friends, while other maybe exp'n because they actually want exp and have certain standards they expect each job to live upto. If you were hasting the NIN then he wouldn't have to ask for it, ever.

Ever stop to think that maybe people are too busy doing their jobs to hold your hand and ask nicely for you to do what is expected of you? In this case BJ was nice about it, he even said please.

Your the type of person who would find yourself warped back to jeuno without notice if you pulled this type of crap with my static. I am glad we are done leveling so we don't need to put up with high and mighty mid-level noobs like you. It maybe rude to do this, but I could care less. Either do your job, or do yourself a favor and play a job you can handle.

If you don't want to put up with people asking you to do your job properly, then stick to leveling up with the "friends" you have who will put up with you and your lack of ability.

Here is a suggestion for you. Learn to deal with it or make sure you never make a mistake if you don't want to handle people correcting your mistakes. If you can't do either of these then I wish you good luck trying to find a God LS that will put up with you.

P.S BJ it sucks that they ditched your party, but like I said before. If it was my party they wouldn't have had the chance since they would have been warped back to thier HP long before it got to this point.
 
Re: crikies

Mielle said:
They were in fact hard fast pulls, which is good but not mentioned...a couple of times during the process the puller or the DD was in low health and the NIN didnt take the hate fast enough ... I certainly didnt start abusing him at those times, I just healed.
Click to expand...

Maybe somehow this was missed? Hmmm keeping people alive via curing, or hasting the NIN.... some people want to have their cake and eat it to. If I was in the party, and the curing was needed I'd be fairly upset if the NIN's crying about getting haste got me killed because a cure spell wasn't being cast in its stead. *SHEESH* WHMs are healers 1st and foremost in situations such as that, and anyone who whines about it shows a self-centered elitist attitude I sure wouldn't tolerate either. So maybe you need to decide BJ which is more important to you? Memebers of your party not dying from lack of curing, or you getting your precious haste when you feel you need it rather than when it is feasible for you to recieve it without screwing other members of the party.
 
,Naotakun gains the effect of Ballad.1
,Mielle gains the effect of Ballad.1
Zarichon gains the effect of Ballad.1
(Ataerareta) Processionaire ?Found it!? (I-9) <call14>
,Bjbreeze obtains a piece of crawler cocoon.1
,Bjbreeze obtains an earth crystal.1
,Zarichon obtains an earth crystal.1
,Zarichon obtains an earth crystal.1
,Bjbreeze obtains an earth crystal.1
,Naotakun starts casting Blade Madrigal on Naotakun.1
,Naotakun starts casting Mage's Ballad on Naotakun.1
Clocian uses a tonosama rice ball.1
The Processionaire is out of range.1
,Time left: (0:00:29)1
,Unable to use job ability.1
,Bjbreeze uses Provoke on the Processionaire.1
,Naotakun casts Mage's Ballad.
,Naotakun gains the effect of Ballad.1
,Mielle gains the effect of Ballad.1
,Zarichon gains the effect of Ballad.1
,1 of Bjbreeze's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.1
,Naotakun starts casting Mage's Ballad II on Naotakun.1
,Bjbreeze starts casting Kurayami: Ni on the Processionaire.1
,Bjbreeze hits the Processionaire for 23 points of damage.1
,Unable to cast spells at this time.1
,1 of Bjbreeze's shadows absorbs the damage and disappears.1
,Bjbreeze starts casting Hojo: Ni on the Processionaire.1
,Zarichon starts casting Bio II on the Processionaire.1
Unable to cast spells at this time.1

Now this to me does not look like a life or death situation if haste can or cannot be cast. But I'm sure you are going to continue to argue that point Archmage instead of admitting your friend being wrong.
 
Anyways on topic, i can relate to Bj. When i was playing my PLD back 6-8months ago. I partied with ALOT of shitty rdms, like Deacen... Tepppo Aandji. Only few rdms i got the pleasure to have a good time like Elemmire does her job well.

As a tarutaru, i would rely on MP a lot, i had pretty good HP, matching with the other races my lvl, due to higher quality gear like BQR at lvl 58, Cassie at lvl 34. ie. Now i never played rdm to the lvl that refresh is required in fact my rdm is lvl 37. But the concept of enfeebling..MB, refresh haste seems like a challenging job to do. I do admit i would blow up at shitty rdms before for not refreshing me. I guess it all depends on your limit of how much crap you can put up with.(Your fuse, as a individual)
 
Firestreak said:
DarkDante, I really think you are not understanding one basic thing and for this you are harping on it relentlessly without reason:

DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO" is the subject of the flame, yes. But he's flaming someone for saying it, he's not saying it himself. If you read his opening post he states he himself never minds people telling him stuff.
Click to expand...

Isn't saying "Don't tell me what to do" telling him stuff? By how he shot back sure seems like he minded being told that.

What's so wrong about someone telling you "Don't tell me what to do" ? Should I be insulted when someone tells me that? Or should I think they aren't up to being bossed around and be quiet this one time?

I know what you would do Fire, but BJ clearly stated he is NOT you.
 
There are little subtleties to this game you pick up over time. What basics you can expect out of a pickup member, what things you might often be disappointed to not see that you will begin to notice the more and more you level.

Honestly I might find myself somewhat offended if I was told to Haste Ninja at the start of the fight. Because that seems very basic to me. Also I'm rank 10 so I feel like that should be expected of me to have a higher standard(of course some have proved the standard false). However what's important is...

...he asked for haste when she wasn't hasting. If a Paladin stops provoking do you think he'd get a "provoke plz?" very patiently? No, you'd say "WTF PROVOKE YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE MOTHERFUCKER!" She got a please, and she decided to argue about it. She was wrong, as she wasn't doing it, and when proven wrong, she jet.

Why is it none of us who play WHM find this acceptable, only people who don't do? Because quite frankly you don't understand the WHM job enough to see how bad it is for WHM not to be hasting Ninja. When there's a Ninja tank WHM already is BORED from lack of stuff to do and abundance of MP. You should be able to haste very melee easily and you should be spamming flash to absorb shadows(I noticed reading the log an absense of that spell too). People on this forum seem to coddle WHM. They don't need erase, it's oh so acceptable here. But a ninja without an emperor's hairpin... fuck that motherfucker? People flame RDMs on this forum for meleeing every day, how would you like if it upon requesting a missing refresh you were met with the RDM warping themself home? This is crap.
 
Fire, I still totally agree with you. There's just no escuse to not be casting Haste as needed, period. It casts almost as fast as any cure, and from the logs, Mielle weren't exactly "chain curing", or even using strong cures for that matter. Also from the logs, the only person Mielle even needed to heal was the NIN, and it was Cure IIs, and if she's doing only that (no Haste? no Regen II or III? If there's no RDM to slow the NIN, I'm assuming she'd be the one doing Para/Slow/Dia..was she even doing THAT? If not, guess what, she's not really doing sh-!t for the party in the end.

If you get a NIN to tank and you're a WHM you should be f-!king thankful, because if there's a RDM in the party who can Haste (hell, even if NOT) a good SMN would prove more useful for almost any NIN (and in every way) at that point of the game (case and point, Earthen Ward, aoe eva/acc up..)

In the end Mielle was just leeching what can possibly be excellent party, and further ruining the reputation of White Mages. So please, do the GOOD mages a favor and just quit, now. And don't play the "my job is so hard" card, because from the jobs I've played, I still find it to be the easiest I've tried.
 
Mishaela said:
If there's no RDM to slow the NIN, I'm assuming she'd be the one doing Para/Slow/Dia..was she even doing THAT? If not, guess what, she's not really doing sh-!t for the party in the end.
Click to expand...

That's supposed to be "Haste the NIN". Sorry, mini-brain-fart~
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top