Dragoon History

Doumoon

DragoonMoon~
Adventurer
Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Messages
139
Age
43
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Sandy
Main Job
Dragoon-Male
Secondary Job
Samurai-Male
Third Job
Ninja-Male
Server
Quetzalcoatl
FFXIV
Doumoon
I want to know what happened. I started playing FFXI 1st day of PS2 release and always wanted to be a DRG, but always heard don't do it, they don't get invited much.

Whats the deal what happened way back when to get comments like " I normally don't like to grp with DRG" or "You have changed the way is see DRGs"

Was it really that bad?
 
When I started playing Drg was fine... no one dissed it... it was Samurai everyone said sucked... I remember when I was told not to do samurai, that all it was was a good sub (for drg mostly), and how a drg with sam sub was better anyways. Was also the time when sam used spears for Pentathrust in order to compete with drg... funny how times change.

I have no beef against drg. Oh, and btw hey Dou, been freaking cut off from QCDN for a while but I'm thankfully back now.
 
DRG could bust out a ton of Pentas back before they did the WS fix. Like 60% TP return from a penta...sub SAM for the Med and they could do a ton of Pentas. And yea, back then SAM wasn't particularly any good haha.
 
back then? it wasn't any different than back then... >.> people were just ignorant of the SAM power :D and some still are... same with a DRG >.>
 
You bet we were Ele. Talking about the people who basically set up and gathered most of the English infomation we have right now... except back then we were all noobs and knew nothing. So of course we were ignorant. hell, back then leveling to 30 meant pugils from 25-30, and people thought it was good xp. Try that now...lol. Reason was too few knew about or could go to kazham/altept then, which made it a paradise when you could get a pt over there.
 
I don't like DRGs... they out-damage my DRK... ; ;

Nah, jk (although they do usually outdamage me if I include wyvern damage). DRG are considered "weak" for several reasons:

-The main reason, the "penta-thrust nerf". Essentially, before the change, whenever you do a multi-hit WS, you got TP for each hit. Since polearms get about 11-12 TP per hit, that means you've probably got about 30-40 TP left after doing a WS. Combined with a SAM sub for Store TP traits and Meditate, you could use Penta Thrust almost non-stop. Recently, SE changed how multi-hit WSs work: only the first hit gives normal TP, every hit after that gives only 1 TP (the exception, however, is for MNK - the first two hits of their WSs give normal TP, instead of just the first hit).
-DRG are unable to wear chainmail gear. This includes RK set and haubergeon, which are some of the best armor for DD melee to use at that level. Instead, their "elite" gear is the more expensive (and less powerful) Scorpion Harness.
-Most people ignore wyvern damage when comparing damage rates. So, it looks like the DRG is doing a lot less damage than everyone else. The fact that they do low damage/hit doesn't help either, since people don't factor in the fact that they attack faster than most other heavy melee.
-And of course, there's the snowball effect. People consider DRG weak. Newbies hear that and believe it. And without seeing hard evidence to the contrary, they pass it on to other newbies, and the cycle continues.

Really, DRG is a great DD, for a few reasons:
-Hate control. Their damage is spread between themselves and their wyvern, so they steal hate from the tank less often than most other DD.
-Jumps. Super Jump clears most of your hate, and I think the other two Jumps clear some of it. Thus, DRG is an ideal SATA partner if a THF is unable to do a SATA or SATA+WS on the tank because the mob is too focused on the tank to turn around.
 
One should note the wyvern damage is quickly cut out of the picture when you fight all those damn suicide bomber goblins...

the reasons i see drg not getting groups is really...
A) they aren't heavy damage dealers like blm and rangers. yes they deal better than average damage though it of course varies on the mob type i see monks and war/nin to be doing larger numbers on average... the dragoon is a nice little touch to bring the damage closer or even with monk but aoe spamming mobs cut the little guys out pretty quick and it can hurt tp and thus continuity when they have to rest with their wyvern.

B) they aren't tanks (they may be used as such in valkurm though @@)

C) they aren't support (ie bard, smn, whm, rdm)

D) they don't have the redeeming factor of being able to make any element of skillchain from anything at any time the way sam seem to ^^;

E) they still don't control hate as nicely as a good thf regardless of their fun moves that hurt a lot in ballista. (super jump messes with casters so much @@)

That makes the choice between them and... dark knights? melee-ing rdm? neither of which i really like but really REALLY rich drk's can get enough gear to make a really nice show of themselves... if a dark knight hit every time they swung they'd be in trouble with hate management....

please forgive me if i left your job out... i hope i didn't miss anything @@
 
Before the multi hit WS nerf Dragoons where considered one of the strongest DDs post 60, they could meditate, spam the hell outa Penta thrust and super jump the hate off. Now adays people ignore teh Wyvern, and they do suffer from having some crappy gear options. And they sffer in the skillchain department.
 
Firestreak said:
I thought we all did OK with what we knew.

And for the record we didn't do pugils to 30... we did gobs and sabertooths in Battalia. And it was decent XP I think.

Only a few went there from what I recall. I went there a few times and yeah it was decent xp(nearish 30 anyways, the few pt I ever went with over there got pwned by gobs and tigers mostly at 25,26) I never liked that place for xp because of those early experiences >.<. 90% of all people leveled on pugils to 30 from 25, as I remember just about every pt I got did pugils lol.

And yes, we did fine with what we knew. Actually, we did great, didn't have much problems with job quests or anything from what I recall, even for smn or drg. (jpn played a role in thise of course.)
 
asiamise said:
Elemmire said:
back then? it wasn't any different than back then... >.> people were just ignorant of the SAM power :D and some still are... same with a DRG >.>

I love you.

woot!! <3 XD and ya.. I love having a SAM in the party if one is free. They are the best job to SC with ^^
 
Blackchaos.We can be tanks with right gear, i have done it
And after we get Spirit Linkand/or AF body. Wedon't need to rest with Wyvern...

EliteGear;;I was stuck wearing the Chess club shirt from 45-60.

Constants Penta thrust must have been nice...
 
Sub sam and penta is still guarenteed like 2 to 3 times per mob.I didn't know till now that sam sub is so awesome for drks and thf for wars =).
 
DRG doesn't even do bad damage, it's just the fact of what most parties keep exping off of...
-Nest Beetles (DRG not good vs)
-Soldier Crawlers (yay)
-Blazer Beetles (no)
-Antican (no)
-Rumble Crawlers (yay)
-Helm Beetle (no)
-Chamber Beetle (no)
-Fallen (no)
-Robber Crab (no)
-Knight Crawler (yay)

Sortof the same reason MNK gets screwed somewhat...DRK has the same problem I think (minus their dmg not being good vs. antican), just it's shrugged off a bit more because their natural damage is higher, + attack bonus. Just the way I see it though..the "mainstream" levelling areas tend to be stuff they're not great against...if you were 58ish (I believe that was the level..) and fought Dire Bats in Ranperre's Tomb, they'd do damn good. =\
 
_Neosquall_ said:
For the record, Monks were targeted for the nerf of Multi-hit WS, Dragoons were just hurt in the process 8)

Right, that reminded me of "that".. XD
The main nerf was because Asuran Fists; if every fist landed, gave like 120TP~
 
And too add, It's usually the younger generation that plays either Paladin or Dragoon, which explains those corny macros and the bad grammar.
 
I've never played dragoon, but it is one of my favorite job classes to work along side with as a thf or drk damage dealer. But to comment on the history of dragoons, I think it's a big misunderstanding. Most people putting down the drg job class just do so because everyone else use to, although it's gotten better.

1. With a weapon of about 400 delay, yet damage just shy of scythe, dragoons can when properly equipped dish out very very respectable damage over a longer period of time, such as that of an xp battle. That added in with wyvren damage puts at a fairly good position.

2. Besides this respectable damage over time Dragoons play an importent role on the SC chart. Now their locations on the skillchain chart are slim, but they're very importent.

Double thurst, vorpal thurst, and skewer open for SA(TA) wasp sting, fast blade, viper bite, dancing edge, slice, hardslash, sickle moon or whatever it's called(GSD ws obtained at 60), vorpal scythe. Those WSs in the right order make distortion which is one of the better SCs out there until level 3 SCs come into play. Between the SCs they can open and their style of attacking, dragoons make good buddies with drks and thfs because of their type of damage over time AND their weapons are typically effective on the same things.

3. Once LVL 3 Skillchains come into play there are 2 things to consider.

3a. Dragoons don't have powerful lvl 66 and 71 WSs.

3b. Dragoons hold The WS for Fusion(Wheeling thurst) of a light SC, and a WS for Gravitation(Impulsive Drive). Now what importence does this have? In a nutshell, it means Dragoon can open for all the most powerful closers for lvl 3 WSs.

Dragoon can open for SATA sharkbite, SATA Spinning slash, and SATA Dragon kick. These 3 Closers are definitely the most powerful closers for a level 3 light SC and drg can open for all of them.

Dragoon also can open for SATA Spiral hell, SATA cross reaper, Samurai's lvl 66 AND 71 WS with GKT.

Dragoons as you can see open up for "all" the most powerful SC closers possible. Unlike ranger for example who can only open or close(although probably a bad idea) light SCs. Drg get the best of SC opening for light and dark SCs, making them a decent damage of time job with alot of support for other melee(as in opening their awsome SCs).
 
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