Drg or SAM

[Ecks]

.. Where's the Drk option?

I leveled pretty damn easily way back when, 30 - 59 being a Ta parter when needed to be one. Which I volunteered to do and did damn well. Hello?

Drk/war, double attack at 50 really helped with the TP gains, in most cases I not only kept up, but beat thfs in tp gain. Some damn rocking parties I had/made back then. Provoke mob to start, position, open up with vorpal scythe then SaTa viper bite onto the tank, distortion ftw. Not like it was that damn hard to do.

 

[GC]

no, not counting equipment, a DRG/SAM could be able to out-TP a SAM, they hit faster, so the TP bonus would be faster, and jump/high jump would also really help.

DRG/SAM definitely cannot out TP gain a SAM. Party with me and I'll guarantee to change your mind.

 

[wolfskymoon]

Drg is drg and better at DoT cuz of the lance's nice attack to delay ratio along with the wavryn.Sam is good at ws.Drg/sam is well almost both....Sam has more defese than drg for sata i think but drg can get rid of their hate with jump so i think both jobs are good depending on how they play it.

 

[Dowzer]

SAM is way better.

1. Tachi: Enpi > Double Thrust

2. Meditate/Third Eye/Meikyo Suishi > Super Jump/Call Wyvern/Whatever

3. SAM can use a polearm for Penta Thrust (Detonation w/ VB) and Wheeling Thrust (Light w/ SB)

4. SAM can use ranged attacks and DRG can't!

5. SAM Weaponskills all rely soley on STR. Wheeling Thrust relies on 50% STR bonus. SAM has more equipment with +STR bonus, I'm willing to bet they can out dmg DRG with that WS - nevermind being able to get TP faster to use it.

6. Tachi: Kasha. This will do more damage than your average SB.

7. Impulse Drive....... /sigh

8. SAMURAI





One question....Since you already have a SAM around lv40, why you need everyones opinion?

If you feel ashamed of SAM, take this katana and please commit seppuku.

 

[Uzor]

I'd say SAM =/ If you've ever partied with JB you should now that a SAM can outdamage and out-TP anything 50+ <.<; Seriously, he always have atleast 100 TP >.< Even though he use like 4 WS's a fight <.<;

At 50+ SAM gets a GK that occasionally attacks 2-3 times. And it's not "occasionally", it's about 90% of the time <.<;

 

[Dayner]

as drk , i say drg


wheeling thrust >>> spinning slash = light 8)

 

[dragoonnerzul]

4. SAM can use ranged attacks and DRG can't!

yes, we can. astragalos, but that's about it

dragoons for the win! you know we rule you

 

[Direwolf]

I would say SAM is your best choice. The fact that many people are forgettign in this psot is SAM can use polearm and have a repectable enough ranking in it. Most Samurais seem to forget this as well, they let that and their ranged skill suffer. Though I am going to say that GK is better in SCs then polearm.

Now granted diffrent players play diffrent jobs with varying degrees of skill so a good DRG will run a crappy SAM into the ground. And vice versa. Overall I am going to say SAM can do more DMG in the skillchain though ESPECIALY post Haubergan and if the SAM is smart enough to have +STR rings in an equip macro.

 

[Zaltana]

i dont care. i'd party with both.

 

[Peregrine]

On technical merit alone, ignoring assumptions about the person behind the stats, sam.
On realworld login, taking a holistic approach to your entire decision, dragoon.

On the whole, the dragoons who play dragoon play dragoon better than samurais who play samurai play samurai. Holistically. If you had to gamble. Dragoon is typically a shoe-in for doing well past the point where fanboys stop playing it. A sam though...I've seen sam screwed up so many times when partying on my thief that I lost count. Mismanagement of TP is the biggest concern. They think they can double up, and bam...suddenly we should be skillchaining and they're not even close to being ready because they got cocky or didn't check my tp notice. You can count on a dragoon to match you tp for tp every time. They don't have the option to screw it up, so they never screw it up.

On technical merit, sam is a great skillchain partner with sa/ta in mind. They're competent. Compatible. Effective. But samurai lacks the safe bet that dragoon will always have. No, jump to clear hate has little to do with it. Zero to do with it. I don't think I've ever sa/ta'd a dragoon in my career. It's that a sam can fail to convert their technical merit into real success. A dragoon...you have to try really hard to not be compatible with a sa/ta partner focused on a skillchain as a dragoon. Really hard. For crying out loud, skewer has a built-in line check.

My biggest concern when inviting a sam, past the point where I wonder if they can turn a mob on-demand or not (that's always the primary concern, because it's an art and some people just aren't artistic) is this: are they willing to give up playing their perception of the optimal samurai in order to play the best samurai in this party? A dragoon will never let you down there. The perfect dragoon and the dragoon you want in that party are one and the same. Not always so with sams.

 

[masterorion]

ive pt with a sam that would knock your socks off. ive never seen one better. his name is efrost. hes got just about all store tp gear (if not all) that you can get. i shit you not, he WS, and 2 seconds later is ready to do it again(without meditate) its insane. i havent pt with anyone that gained tp as fast as him and he was very good at knowing when/how to use it

 

[The Druw]

3. SAM can use a polearm for Penta Thrust (Detonation w/ VB) and Wheeling Thrust (Light w/ SB)

TO put this politely,

SAMURAI DO NOT GET WHEELING THRUST.

It's a Dragoon SP Move. -_- Please, atleast know what you're talking about. Here's my take on this topic, coming froma DRG.

Oh, and if unless they have an A- atleast in Polearm, their gonna cap like 4 points lower, and Penta Thrust is based mostly off the ability to hit the mob, 5 Hit WS. So you'd need Hachiman gear to do it properly. And by then DRG has Wheeling Thrust and is opening Light. And....since when is Detonation a demanded SC? =/

What exactly is this about? Pure Skillchaining, or SATA?

Samurai

The Samurai is a better skillchain partner. Plain and simple. They have more abilities to skillchain, hell THATS WHAT THEY ARE BUILT TO DO. They can double SC with Meditate up. It's a really good SC job. Damage wise, I do believe a DRG can out DMG them, assuming they aren't the stereotype Gimp-assed shitbag. But all in all, Samurai is the better SC Partner. Of course I'm biased towards DRG D:



Dragoon

The Dragoon from levels 10-65 is good for one skillchain: Distortion. We open it with Double Thrust, and that is all. I do believe DRG does more damage than a Samurai, our weapons hit fairly hard and the delay isn't -that- nasty, like on a Great Axe or something. The wyvern assist in our DMG, YES THAT IS RIGHT, THE WYVERN IS PART OF MY JOB =O GASP. The Wyvern can crank out 60-146 DMG breath weapons if it uses the correct element, which can vary. It can hit , least right now around 56, for 20-25 Damage, ontop of my own 79-100 (vs. Robber Crabs ; . So if you add the two together, it makes a difference.

We're better SATA Partners simply because of High Jump, and Super Jump. High Jump is on a 3 minute timer. Super Jump is on a 5 Minute Timer. While you're thinking about the length of the timers, consider sometime the length of a kill, and if the mob doesn't turn, I don't need to jump thus saving it.

If I set up, and the THF SATA's off me. I can build TP faster than most THF's I've encoutnered, so I'm generally ready at 111-126% TP when they hit 100-108%. I hit Double Thrust, do maybe 170-250 DMG, 60-140 Breath WEapon goes off, The THF SATA's off me, OH NOES 500+ Viper Bite WHAT DO I DO!? I High Jump, and the monster turns right the fuck back around, ok no biggie, the fight + pull time is gonna draw my Timer back down, but no worries, Super Jump is still up. So we get TP early, right? Sure I can first voke take a few hits, no biggy. Now here's the benefit of Super Jump, in two scenarios:

A) I first voke. THF Lines up, I Double THrust, THF SATA's off of the PLD< the PLD gets hate, I super jump, erasing my hate. So PLD has -all- the hate almost. Save for the MB.

B) The THF SATA's off me, I Super Jump, then it's just PLD vs. MB. But still plenty off DMG.

For those who don't know the functions of our Jumps:

Jump - Purely an extra attack with added Damage.

High Jump - Damage, with shedding -some- hate.

Super Jump - Wipes out hate for the DRG completely.


DRG/SAM

It's not a bad combination, infact, with the right equipment it's damn sexy. You would, IMO, need a Rajas Ring (Store TP +5, primary focus here) to pull it off like a machine. with /SAM you would get 14 TP per Swing. With the Raja's Ring that becomes 19. Jump's I believe get an extra 2 TP, course I may have just been seeing things the other day. SO, Let's assume they -don't-.

So you Hit the mob, 19 TP, you hit Jump, 19 TP, WE're up to a grand total of 38 TP, within the first few SECONDS of a fight. Not counting the TP left over from a previous fight. This is a fresh 0% TP Bar. You wait for your second swing, you hit, 19 TP, Hit High Jump, so you lose a bit of hate, and gain 19TP, we're at 76 TP., you swing twice more, and you are at 114%. Now, thats only what, 4 swings? You hit your Double Thrust, the Partner hits wtfever to close distortion. Hit Meditate, you gain 60 TP I believe? And then you only need to hit it about 3 times and you're ready to go into your second Skillchain, to end the fight. And even at the end of an SC it'll give you 19TP. 20 for Double I believe. Add on the Barone Gear TP Bonus to "Jump" and that would make it even better.

But, thats just an idea I had on DRG/SAM.If you have already thought of it, Congratulations, if not, try it out, just give credit where credit is due? ;D

 

[Nitram]

On technical merit alone, ignoring assumptions about the person behind the stats, sam.
On realworld login, taking a holistic approach to your entire decision, dragoon.

On the whole, the dragoons who play dragoon play dragoon better than samurais who play samurai play samurai. Holistically. If you had to gamble. Dragoon is typically a shoe-in for doing well past the point where fanboys stop playing it. A sam though...I've seen sam screwed up so many times when partying on my thief that I lost count. Mismanagement of TP is the biggest concern. They think they can double up, and bam...suddenly we should be skillchaining and they're not even close to being ready because they got cocky or didn't check my tp notice. You can count on a dragoon to match you tp for tp every time. They don't have the option to screw it up, so they never screw it up.

On technical merit, sam is a great skillchain partner with sa/ta in mind. They're competent. Compatible. Effective. But samurai lacks the safe bet that dragoon will always have. No, jump to clear hate has little to do with it. Zero to do with it. I don't think I've ever sa/ta'd a dragoon in my career. It's that a sam can fail to convert their technical merit into real success. A dragoon...you have to try really hard to not be compatible with a sa/ta partner focused on a skillchain as a dragoon. Really hard. For crying out loud, skewer has a built-in line check.

My biggest concern when inviting a sam, past the point where I wonder if they can turn a mob on-demand or not (that's always the primary concern, because it's an art and some people just aren't artistic) is this: are they willing to give up playing their perception of the optimal samurai in order to play the best samurai in this party? A dragoon will never let you down there. The perfect dragoon and the dragoon you want in that party are one and the same. Not always so with sams.

That is very true, and I for one am glad you brought that up cause I didn't even think of that. Now that you brought it up I agree completely.

 

[Nitram]

3. SAM can use a polearm for Penta Thrust (Detonation w/ VB) and Wheeling Thrust (Light w/ SB)

DRG/SAM

It's not a bad combination, infact, with the right equipment it's damn sexy. You would, IMO, need a Rajas Ring (Store TP +5, primary focus here) to pull it off like a machine. with /SAM you would get 14 TP per Swing. With the Raja's Ring that becomes 19. Jump's I believe get an extra 2 TP, course I may have just been seeing things the other day. SO, Let's assume they -don't-.

So you Hit the mob, 19 TP, you hit Jump, 19 TP, WE're up to a grand total of 38 TP, within the first few SECONDS of a fight. Not counting the TP left over from a previous fight. This is a fresh 0% TP Bar. You wait for your second swing, you hit, 19 TP, Hit High Jump, so you lose a bit of hate, and gain 19TP, we're at 76 TP., you swing twice more, and you are at 114%. Now, thats only what, 4 swings? You hit your Double Thrust, the Partner hits wtfever to close distortion. Hit Meditate, you gain 60 TP I believe? And then you only need to hit it about 3 times and you're ready to go into your second Skillchain, to end the fight. And even at the end of an SC it'll give you 19TP. 20 for Double I believe. Add on the Barone Gear TP Bonus to "Jump" and that would make it even better.

But, thats just an idea I had on DRG/SAM.If you have already thought of it, Congratulations, if not, try it out, just give credit where credit is due? ;D

That o'reilly pic is the best!

And that's a badass DD you just thought up, I'm gonna go for that after I get my XBOX 360. 8)

 

[meeze]

store tp doesn't work like that. it works upon meditate, not upon each hit.

 

[The Druw]

oh. crap. Well...then that idea's dead in the water. @_@

 

[meeze]

and also, i believe +6 store tp=1 tp extra upon meditate, nut you would need a sam to verify that.

 

[Nitram]

store tp doesn't work like that. it works upon meditate, not upon each hit.

Then why would a sam get store tp before they get meditate? I always thought that store tp gives you 1 tp extra per hit.

 

[Afterhour]

store tp doesn't work like that. it works upon meditate, not upon each hit.

Then why would a sam get store tp before they get meditate? I always thought that store tp gives you 1 tp extra per hit.

Store TP +1 = +1 tp per hit

 

[meeze]

store tp doesn't work like that. it works upon meditate, not upon each hit.

Then why would a sam get store tp before they get meditate? I always thought that store tp gives you 1 tp extra per hit.

Store TP +1 = +1 tp per hit

wrong.