DRGs are worthless said the blind man . . .

[Falsey]

I really wanna know who that imaginary drk war.And btw mages don't even spend half of what a DD spends on exp-ing.

You didnt tell me that when you asked for my help on Sunday night. :lol: :lol:

 

[Lecan]

Why are we attacking each other?
1. No one should suggest anyone quit any job...
2. DRG/WHM is fun, but for xp PT sounds pretty desperate...
3. This was post informing us about what some people said about DRGs being worthless and thru these post and everyone knows its how you play the job that makes its worth.

Thank God another actual DRG here supports my idea.
You guys have to understand that being versitile does not mean being efficient in exp pt.
However again DRG/whm like doumoon said fun. For solo and great in assisting quest or non-BCNM missions but not EXP.
In exp pt, your priority is to create dmg and SATA buddy. Nothing else

Well then, I suppose we can more or less agree to disagree, as I've no further interest in such an argument. I tried to make a point, but if so many of you (ironically enough DRG) are hell bent on saying that you suck post 60, then you can go ahead and do so; I however want no part of it.

 

[Kirayamato]

are you being stupid or something?
In which post did i say DRG are too weak?

My arguement is regarding to your idea of "versitile" in exp pt which in my opinion is making the exp party inefficient as you are meant to create damage and WS is one important way to create damage. To do WS you need TP. You are given jumps not only to create dmg but also gain TP and if you sub a mage job you are being inefficient for waste TP when you rest.

At 60, our WS are relatively weak comparing to jobs like DRKs, SAMs and MNKs. Our 3 widely used and strong WS are Wheeling Trust, Penta Trust and Impulse Drive.
Wheeling Trust ignores defence which varies in TP; dmg used to be 100-300 but due to update it is now 300-500 without SATA.
Penta Trust is a five fold attack which dmg varies in TP; dmg is usually (the no. of times hit; 0-5) X 1-1.5 of usual dmg against IT. Therefore most you could get out of it is 400-650 against IT *with low defense*
Impulse Drive; 2 hit which dmg varies in TP; same as penta trust but 2 hits where perhit = 1-2.5 times based on actual hit but can chain for Darkness SC. Usual dmg 300-450
*Please note my findings are based without SATA*

Have you seen a DRG create 1k dmg against a monster? yes i definately do. when i penta trust a forest hare in west ronfaure.

Our perhit + wyvern's dmg do not differ a lot compare to DRKs, MNKs and SAMs. However we lose out due to Weak WS.

Sam's Tachi Gekko with SATA creates 800-1.1k dmg
DRKs. no need to say
MNK's Asuran Fist...

If you do not believe these Facts. Wait till you hit 75 and learn the truth and get ready to cry to your mommy.

I have talked to many and yes we are depressed that our WS are relatively weak although we normally hit as hard as others but till WS... we lose out.

The thing about WS Polearm like Katana. we can do both Darkness and Light. Drks have to learn GSD and scythe to get darkness and light and as for monks. dragon kick only light not sure about darkness.

 

[Kirayamato]

are you being stupid or something?
In which post did i say DRG are too weak?

My arguement is regarding to your idea of "versitile" in exp pt which in my opinion is making the exp party inefficient as you are meant to create damage and WS is one important way to create damage. To do WS you need TP. You are given jumps not only to create dmg but also gain TP and if you sub a mage job you are being inefficient for waste TP when you rest.

At 60, our WS are relatively weak comparing to jobs like DRKs, SAMs and MNKs. Our 3 widely used and strong WS are Wheeling Trust, Penta Trust and Impulse Drive.
Wheeling Trust ignores defence which varies in TP; dmg used to be 100-300 but due to update it is now 300-500 without SATA.
Penta Trust is a five fold attack which dmg varies in TP; dmg is usually (the no. of times hit; 0-5) X 1-1.5 of usual dmg against IT. Therefore most you could get out of it is 400-650 against IT *with low defense*
Impulse Drive; 2 hit which dmg varies in TP; same as penta trust but 2 hits where perhit = 1-2.5 times based on actual hit but can chain for Darkness SC. Usual dmg 300-450
*Please note my findings are based without SATA*

Have you seen a DRG create 1k dmg against a monster? yes i definately do. when i penta trust a forest hare in west ronfaure.

Our perhit + wyvern's dmg do not differ a lot compare to DRKs, MNKs and SAMs. However we lose out due to Weak WS.

Sam's Tachi Gekko with SATA creates 800-1.1k dmg
DRKs. no need to say
MNK's Asuran Fist...

If you do not believe these Facts. Wait till you hit 75 and learn the truth and get ready to cry to your mommy.

I have talked to many and yes we are depressed that our WS are relatively weak although we normally hit as hard as others but till WS... we lose out.

The thing about WS Polearm like Katana. we can do both Darkness and Light. Drks have to learn GSD and scythe to get darkness and light and as for monks. dragon kick only light not sure about darkness.

 

[Kirayamato]

Sorry it is Great Katana.
Impulse Drive > Tachi: Gekkou

 

[Doumoon]

I did not say DRG suck post 60 either and will nver say that.
only time I used DRG/WHM in PT was DRG/WAR 2 DRG/SAM DRG/WHM and DRG/BLM and it was one of the funnest xp pts I have been in but i did not understand anything being said(was only NA in pt).

I love every lvl of being DRG, If I find a weakness during any of my lvls there is a way to fix it wheter it be polearm or armor. (ex. Bourdonasse on undead.)

 

[Brin]

My arguement is regarding to your idea of "versitile" in exp pt which in my opinion is making the exp party inefficient as you are meant to create damage and WS is one important way to create damage.

At 60, our WS are relatively weak comparing to jobs like DRKs, SAMs and MNKs.

we lose out due to Weak WS.

Now that confuses me......you say WS is important for us to create dmg but then you say that at 60 my WS is weak. Well, first off, due to my insane amounts of accuracy due to expensive food (yes....i have expensive taste XD ) I use Penta and Skewer agaisnt ITs and hit for around 300dmg more or less every time easy....so....I wouldnt say my WS is weak. Secondly, that dmg is only nerfed slighty with a /whm sub....the only kicker is that I dont get the breath attack from Lumiere.

To do WS you need TP. You are given jumps not only to create dmg but also gain TP and if you sub a mage job you are being inefficient for waste TP when you rest.

I dont know about you but when I do a SC in an exp pty we do it at the end of the mobs life. Soo...If I can regain all my MP back with my Dark Staff and juices in between pulls, why would i worry about TP loss? The answer is no, I wouldnt worry about it becuase I wouldnt have any TP loss.


Now with a total of 142mp I have right now I can cast Dia 20 tims which is 20 Healing breaths which cure you for 160hp, that potentially balloons the tanks HP by 3200hp. Now, a DRG without the AF helm should NOT exp pty....I believe that a DRG/WHM is not as good as a main healer but past 60 I think its a pretty damn good alternative. Without the AF helm the Healing Breath will not kick in till the patient is below 33% HP, but with the helm the healing breath will kick in at 50% and gives the healing breath some extra power.

On top of that I can Divine Seal + Cure 3 in an emergancy and heal the tank for close to 400hp then Super Jump the enimity away.

Now, something you may not have known but Healing Breaths STACK. Which mean if you had two DRG/WHMs that cast dia together when the tank is below 50% hp that will cure the tank for 320hp.

Now, I shall go over this once again, I am not saying DRG/WHM is meant to be the main healer right off the bat. If you can get a RDM and WHM for your pty more power to you. I am also not saying a person should sent around lfg with only a DRG/WHM.

The whole point of this is VERSITILITY.....which means for the less eduacated folk, DRG has potential to do well with multiple subs. a DRG/THF, DRG/SAM, DRG/WAR, DRG/WHM, DRG/RDM and anything else that i missed.

I have my /war and /whm sub lvl'd and when i get back from being out to sea i'll get my /thf sub lvl'd (just for farming purposes, I think SATA is overrated in my opinion but hey, to each his own, i'll still invite a DRG/THF in an exp pty)

Now, all the time i go as drg/war for the simple fact that ppl on this server dont have much experiance with exp'ing with a drg/whm post 60. If they have, chances are the drg's equip could have been gimped up so then.....you still dont have an accurate assesment. So to follow the servers rules of "staying in the box...pfft" I go drg/war all the time and am fine with it but it sure would be nice to test drg/whm out on the field as much as I can.

The more you test it the more you can find out the flaws and weaknesses and in turn improve them. I bet if I have uber-juice, food, and equip...my drg/whm would be pretty damn nifty.

You lvl 75, yea...i'm sure you have more experiance than me as a drg/sam....shoot i dont even have a lvl'd /sam sub cause I dont care about sam. I give you props for being lvl 75 cause you deserve them but I be damned if i'm gonna let you feed me this garbage just because you havent put your DRG to the true test of versitility. Have you used drg/whm in an exp pty post 60 with a lvl'd whm sub? I doubt you have.....

Now if i'm wrong then i'm wrong, if i'm right then i'm right....no big deal. I'm not here to discredit you but to take my stand and protect my views. So please, dont hate on me for wanting to at least try drg/whm in an exp pty...hell at least I am WILLING to try. At least if there are not any SMNs, RDMs, or WHMs log'd on FFXI on the WHOLE SERVER for at least 4 hours, at least I can use drg/whm as an alternative in an exp pty and manage to get exp while your pty is sitting there looking for a mage that isnt gonna show up for hours. if all you have are lvl'd melee subs then you have just chosen your fate. You have no other use then to create DMG.....the end.

 

[Kirayamato]

Now that confuses me......you say WS is important for us to create dmg but then you say that at 60 my WS is weak. Well, first off, due to my insane amounts of accuracy due to expensive food (yes....i have expensive taste XD ) I use Penta and Skewer agaisnt ITs and hit for around 300dmg more or less every time easy....so....I wouldnt say my WS is weak. Secondly, that dmg is only nerfed slighty with a /whm sub....the only kicker is that I dont get the breath attack from Lumiere.

So you are saying 300 dmg is good comparing sam, drks and sam dealing 1k dmg?
So losing a little STR and wyvern's breath which gives addition of 150-250 dmg?
Did you read my statements regarding about WS?
I have given pointers saying our WS can do light and darkness SC which is a good thing in SC due to effect.
Anyways, I tend to ignore your n00bness regarding about WS.

Being versitile is us DRG being able to assist in missions and quest as we SJ whm unlike other jobs.

Do you understand about efficiency? Dumb Dumb. Fun is one thing. Doumoon enjoys DRG/whm in funny exp. I enjoy tanking as a DRG/nin and play little heal with SJ whm. There are JPs like Keep that SJ whm for dynamis. Am I against to that idea ? ? ?My favourite SJs are War and Sam. I will lvl MNK to test out my AF2 body with counterstance for fun as Skaw would like to see it.

Please go somewhere and get a brain. Post 60 people wants to be efficient and aim to gain as much exp as possible. Might as well ask a Whm/nin and play as DD where DRG/whm heals. Whm does Hexa Strike in EXP pt and creates light chain. Efficient? No. Mad? Definately.

Talking to 2 of you bitches makes me think how stupid you guys not understanding about being efficient. Like I am trying to explain to a wall.
Please go do some research about efficiency. Economics explains it well.

I got other better things to do in life rather to talk sense to you two morons.

I end here. Seeing how ridiculous you can be makes my effort talking sense are worthless. GL in spreading the world that DRG/whm are good in exp pts. They will give hell a lot of exp.

 

[Jagster]

I think dragoon becomes the new 'samurai' so to say of SC enabling once they have both their 66 and 71 WS.

Importent things to remember:

-Wheeling Thurst is Fusion of a lvl 3 light SC
-Impulsive Drive is Grav of a lvl 3 dark
-Due to their jumps and acc bonus trait, they will gain pretty fast tp
-They have decent damage over time, regardless of ability timers, since they're not dependant on focus, aggresiver, souleater, SATA, meditate, and to a degree barrage. They'll be consistant in their damage be it chain 0 or chain 5 or anything inbetween incomparion to most other jobs.

I'll post the renaki chart in my next post so you can see for yourselves but if you'll take notice, all the good finishers to light SC are Frag such as shark bite, dragon kick, and spinning slash. All the good openers for lvl 3 light are in fusion: Wheeling Thurst, the 2 1hand axe WS, and both the mark and archery WSs. Maybe the ranged WSs would make decent finishers...but the rng can't pass that hate like the mnk/thf,drk/thf, thf/ can, plus it'll do less damage. All the distortion WSs make great finisher with /thf such as both scythe WSs, gekko, ground strike, and one of the GAX WSs.

So as you can see, Drg once they obtain both their high lvl WS can open for all the major lvl 3 SC closers. Now of course dragoon isn't the only damage dealer type job to have WS that can be in light or dark SCs without switching weapons. There is sam,thf,mnk,drk with greatsword, war with GAX that I can think of. However none of those jobs/weapons are fusion and grav, the accepted opener WSs. For example, samurai can build tp faster no doubt, and they have a WS for fusion of a light SC, and a WS for distorion of a dark SC.

However, openers typically perform better with /war, they serve as the damage of time melee, and voke is/can be very helpful in setting the SC. As a closer, /thf is pretty much required. Sam are fusion and distortion, to perform their best as an opener, sam will need /war, to perform their best as a closer they'll need /thf. So in one specfic party, sam won't be closing and opening WSs at full potienal, neither would those other jobs.

Heres the kind of potienal I think Dragoon can have during xp parties.

First there is the standard setup, drg+ thf/ mnk/thf and drk/thf, throw in a blm and you have a classic proved to work party.

But lets explore the potienal of a drg/ during a 71-75 party, which have huge TNLs so you can't really say "Just 4 levels". And for examples sake, they're zero blms lfp but tons of melee to choose from, and your other mages + tank.

Ninja or Paladin
Drg/war or drg/sam
thf/
drk/thf with scythe
Bard or redmage
Whitemage or redmage

Or you could have mnk and sam, or any mix, this is for example.

Imagine that, dragoon's job is to be the damage over time character gaining tp as fast as possible while enabling powerful lvl 3 SCs, the thf and drk and the lvl 3 SC closers, each goes every other battle. So you can have a light SC every other battle, and a dark SC every other battle, without sacrificing ability and potienal ( Refer to earier in which I stated the other jobs with a WS apart of light and dark and not being able to effectively open/close both due to each needing a different SJ for optimal performence ) . Good xp based around SCs without the absolute need for a blm? I think so. I think this role would really take advantage of a drg's style, ability, and WSs based on their location on the SC chart.

 

[Jagster]

The link to the nice looking SC chart I prefer

http://www.adennak.com/renkei10.pdf

 

[Davio]

All this bickering.

Drg suck anyways 8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[Lokkin]

are you being stupid or something?
In which post did i say DRG are too weak?

My arguement is regarding to your idea of "versitile" in exp pt which in my opinion is making the exp party inefficient as you are meant to create damage and WS is one important way to create damage. To do WS you need TP. You are given jumps not only to create dmg but also gain TP and if you sub a mage job you are being inefficient for waste TP when you rest.

At 60, our WS are relatively weak comparing to jobs like DRKs, SAMs and MNKs. Our 3 widely used and strong WS are Wheeling Trust, Penta Trust and Impulse Drive.
Wheeling Trust ignores defence which varies in TP; dmg used to be 100-300 but due to update it is now 300-500 without SATA.
Penta Trust is a five fold attack which dmg varies in TP; dmg is usually (the no. of times hit; 0-5) X 1-1.5 of usual dmg against IT. Therefore most you could get out of it is 400-650 against IT *with low defense*
Impulse Drive; 2 hit which dmg varies in TP; same as penta trust but 2 hits where perhit = 1-2.5 times based on actual hit but can chain for Darkness SC. Usual dmg 300-450
*Please note my findings are based without SATA*

Have you seen a DRG create 1k dmg against a monster? yes i definately do. when i penta trust a forest hare in west ronfaure.

Our perhit + wyvern's dmg do not differ a lot compare to DRKs, MNKs and SAMs. However we lose out due to Weak WS.

Sam's Tachi Gekko with SATA creates 800-1.1k dmg
DRKs. no need to say
MNK's Asuran Fist...

If you do not believe these Facts. Wait till you hit 75 and learn the truth and get ready to cry to your mommy.

I have talked to many and yes we are depressed that our WS are relatively weak although we normally hit as hard as others but till WS... we lose out.

The thing about WS Polearm like Katana. we can do both Darkness and Light. Drks have to learn GSD and scythe to get darkness and light and as for monks. dragon kick only light not sure about darkness.

You guys do realize he is arguing because he missed the fact that Brin(Trizzip) even stated he had never tried DRG/WHM in a party? Right?

 

[Kirayamato]

Please read other post about Dark Staff and juices lol....

Now with a total of 142mp I have right now I can cast Dia 20 tims which is 20 Healing breaths which cure you for 160hp, that potentially balloons the tanks HP by 3200hp. Now, a DRG without the AF helm should NOT exp pty....I believe that a DRG/WHM is not as good as a main healer but past 60 I think its a pretty damn good alternative. Without the AF helm the Healing Breath will not kick in till the patient is below 33% HP, but with the helm the healing breath will kick in at 50% and gives the healing breath some extra power

 

[wolfskymoon]

Jagster and ibariba.I had hauberk at like 65 and didn't wear it til 69.I have snipers for a long while and sold my last one a few weeks ago ( i Have and had enough accuracy on collar hand and other parts... and i know my job better than a blm.I think i should start calling every blm and whm gimp if they don't have that serket ring and the royal/vermillion cloak, astral earring and that shield that drops in gustav tunnel .In the end it would turn out that u have less downtime with a taru whm as compared to other races.Wars have more natural accuracy than a drk i believe,with accuracy all over the armor i need str,dex and attack.WIth optical hat accuracy shouldn't be a problem.If you are that concerned with my armor how about u come and give me a hand with hakutaku eh? instead of sitting on ur ass and commenting about ppl's armor.

 

[Hecate]

I haven't partied with many Drgs... but when I have they seemed... lacking. But thats just who I've encountered. I know DRGs can be completely kick ass if they're good enough with the right equips etc. But I want to say that there aren't many of those types. I just need to party with a good QCDN DRG :wink:

 

[Panda]

I've pt'd with bad drgs before. I think as it was said here people just don't know how to play the job very well and maximize their skills so they give everyone a bad name.

I just started playing drg with static and I'm having fun - though it is a HUGE difference from the WHM I usually play. There is less interaction, and I think because the job just doesn't have a whole bunch of abilities or specialties that people get lazy and just whack shit around and don't really put effort into it. I mean I guess as I get to a higher level I'll see more and more of what I can do in the job, but I can see how drgs can get very lazy and just blow through the job, never giving people the idea of how good a drg can be, hus leading to no invites.

Thankfully for me, I have a drg mentor who is teaching me the trade.

/salute Audino

 

[Lanien]

I haven't partied with many Drgs... but when I have they seemed... lacking. But thats just who I've encountered. I know DRGs can be completely kick ass if they're good enough with the right equips etc. But I want to say that there aren't many of those types. I just need to party with a good QCDN DRG :wink:

Get to 67 and I'll show you how a good Dragoon can play :roll: At least I like to think I am good.

 

[Falsey]

I haven't partied with many Drgs... but when I have they seemed... lacking. But thats just who I've encountered. I know DRGs can be completely kick ass if they're good enough with the right equips etc. But I want to say that there aren't many of those types. I just need to party with a good QCDN DRG :wink:

Get to 67 and I'll show you how a good Dragoon can play :roll: At least I like to think I am good.

Is the only DRG I tip my Wizards Petasos to on the server!

/bow Lanien

 

[Lanien]

Thank you Falsey

I'm still waiting for my MPK. You promised... I have enough XP to not delevel now though, so we're all good. :roll:

 

[Ronith]

I got a PM here on QCDN not long ago from a fellow Dragoon telling me that he thought he knew most 70+ dragoons, but had never seen me in game, and wanted to say hi and thanked me for being a model for upcoming Dragoons. Why can't we just have respect for one another like this? If this story is true, it just shows how low the morals of people playing has become, and it hardly gets better later on.

I still don't get why people have a problem with Dragoons. Anyone who can get Dragoon to 75 deserves a lot more respect than some Ranger who thinks buying his way through 75 levels makes him almighty. We deserve some fucking respect for the numbers we put up, which half of you don't even understand. Very rarely am I outdamaged by anyone short of Black Mages and Rangers. And 60+, a Dark Knight is nothing without his Thief sub and someone to get rid of the hate for him. Who better to do this than a Dragoon? But no, people don't understand what we do. All they want are big flashy numbers that in the end, just don't add up to the power of what a Dragoon and his wyvern can do. If you are level 67, I dare you to party with me and parse a log of damage done. You will be suprised.

That's wrong = underline; I deal anywhere from 800-1313(my max exp pt dmg at 64) with /war ... but that leads into what you said next...

That's all too right ><= Bold; We can deal out major dmg and with my gear I can lay out anywhere from a good 2-3WS's PER FIGHT don't believe me? ask Longarm (PLD) of who'm I pt'd with all last weekend in exp pt...amazed him all the time more and more about our dmg, but back to your point...w/o /THF we pull too much hate ... and eventually end up costing the MP from the healers (either on the chain's or from the downtime from death) like messing up the chains...making the healers waste MP on me...therefore making us lose chains...But I try...at least to keep my hate less than the tanks ... but often times with /WAR that doesnt happen and ya...