Dynamis Antics

Jeska said:
Come on its only seven days out of date since last post some dynamis LS only run once a week to post fresh problems on a thread like this. If the thread was months outta date then you'd have a case to scream necro! ^^
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I wasn't calling it a necro, he did =P I was just referencing the fact that its not really a necro since its only a few days old.
 
delphin said:
I can fault them. If they knew they were taking a zone someone else had planned for the last month, and they still went along with it, your friends are douchebags.
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First off, my friend was in the half of Persistence that fell apart, not the half that became "ThatJustHappened". So don't think I'm defending him here... If he was in that shell, I would have indeed pestered him about it. But even if he was, it's the leaders of the shell that make the decisions to ignore scheduling and jack a zone, not the members. Do me a favor, and put yourself in the shoes of the lower members of the shell for a second...

You are in an endgame shell on Midgard, where there is no such thing as Dynamis scheduling. Yeah, you know they bot HNMs, but you choose to just deal with it because you know that basically EVERY HNM shell bots, and you want HNM gear, so you put aside your ethical beliefs and just let them do their thing while you collect the loot. You refuse to run the bot, but you stay in the shell because they are effective at getting drops.

Now this same shell does Dynamis, and you are required to go with them to stay in the shell (very common in endgame shells). We all move to Quetz, and you go about attending Dynamis with your shell as you always have. You aren't a leader, maybe you don't even know there IS such a thing as a Dynamis schedule on this server, because (not being a leader) you never bothered to investigate it. Your shell leaders ignore this schedule, and just take whatever zone they want. Not knowing that the scheduling even exists, you don't even know that they are doing anything "wrong" in the eyes of others. They are just doing the same thing they have done all along on Midgard. Now, someone on Quetz that is annoyed by the fact that the schedule is being ignored by a "rogue" shell from Midgard, posts a list of people that were in that Dynamis zone. Your name is on the list.

You now catch flack from people you don't even know, for something you had no control over, and didn't even know was considered wrong.

So let me ask you. Who's the douchebag now? The shell member that was just going along with his shell, and doing what was asked of him by its leaders? Or the guy that called him out on a public messageboard for something he didn't even know was "bad"?

I am no longer a leader of a Dynamis shell, but back when I was, I did sign up on this messageboard right after they announced the merge, mostly because of the scheduling system. If you refer to my very first posts on this board, you'll see that I was one of the very first people to sign up and express my happiness about the existence of a scheduling system and my desire to use it. I still think it's a great idea, and I still think that if all the shells can work together (with this and anything else in-game), it will just make things more fun for everyone. And I have no issues with people calling out shells that are refusing to use the system (I think it's good, actually, to put pressure on the people that don't want to play nice, even if it won't do any good), but calling out names of everyone in those shells and calling them "douchebags" isn't the right way to go about it. You want to call the leaders that made the decision douchebags, or call the members that act like assholes to other players douchebags, that's fine. But calling out everyone in a shell isn't fair.
 
I would agree with the OP. I wouldn't call him a douchebag for calling them out either. If anything, now if I'm in a zone with trail markings getting ready for dynamis and I see any of these names enter the same zone, I'll get the little red flag in my mind that I need to keep an eye out for what they could possibly do. I'm not going to Blist people I don't know, however, I appreciate the OP letting the community know about his experience so that we can hopefully avoid the same thing.

Divinius, I can see your point. On the other hand, we aren't forced to be in shells we don't agree to the practices of. I find it highly unlikely that someone is forced to do something they think is wrong or the big bad shell full of "awesome" friends (would they really be awesome friends if they are forcing you to be a D-bag?) is going to boot them. I've left/refused to join shells who I don't agree to their principles whether I have friends in the shell or not.

Since my return just before the merger, I've been looking for Dynamis shells with my bazaar comment and have gotten countless invites. My first question is always "Do you go along with the scheduling on the QCDN forum?" because I don't want to be associated as a zone stealer. Several midgar people have directly said "No, we don't go by that scheduling, It's stupid" and then I don't join. So to just assume that they don't know there is a scheduling forum in order to make your argument have a backbone is purely stipulation and highly unlikely.
 
Yes, it seems like quite a few midgard shells..including once I was once in on midgard...don't realize what that means. (Do NOT ask me which. I did not leave on good terms and I do NOT want to bring up old drama. LET THAT DEAD HORSE ROT! Div knows which, but I respectfully ask please, if you know about that garbage, do not bring it here please with two ginger cookies on top. And if that shell comes up, do not expect me to say anything, what happened still makes me pretty ticked off and I don't want to step in that.)

Hopefully they'll see sense. Not using what you guys have been using for THIS long is not gonna make it go away. It is only gonna cause resentment and fights. THAT was my reasoning for telling Northstar and the leads of CS about the calendar soon as I found out. (neither of which would of found out normally until too late, as far as I know.) It may take time however. Sadly.
 
As I've said multiple times, I agree that the scheduling system is a good thing, and I disagree with shells that choose to ignore it. I think those shell leaders are being selfish, unfair, and ignorant. And I've also said that I, too, appreciate people getting the word out about which shells refuse to use the schedule, and who to watch out for. The new Dynamis shell I just joined had their zone jacked a couple weeks ago by some shell (I don't know which), and when the leaders of my shell said something about the scheduling system, they were laughed at and mocked by the other shell's leaders. I don't know who they were, as I wasn't there, but if I did, I would have brought it up here for the same reason. What I would NOT have done is call out names of people I saw there, unless they were specifically shell-holders or the people that were actually arguing about the schedule.

Since the merge, the holier-than-thou, vigilante antics of the people on here that are trying to "enforce the rules" is getting to be a bit ridiculous. Yes, try to maintain the system, but don't become just as bad as those that ignore it by being arrogant assclowns about the whole thing.
 
First, regarding your point about being in an HNM and Dynamis shell above: If you are in a shell that bots, you are a douchebag. If you are forced to do douchebag things to stay in that shell, you are douchebag. If you are forced to do douchebag things in multiple endgame events that disrupts a system that has been stable for almost eight years, you are a douchebag. You can try to justify it all you want, I don't care. I still think the people you are describing are douchebags.

Second, regarding my "holier-than-thou, vigilante antics": I hadn't thought of it that way, but thanks for the flattery I guess? I don't really care what people do with the information. You can laugh at it, you can ignore it, you can call me whatever kind of names you want to. I'm posting information. I have a certain bias about the information, being that my shell only runs Sundays and Thursdays (although, as I said before, others can post their lists here as well), but the fact is people can do whatever they want with the info.
 
delphin said:
First, regarding your point about being in an HNM and Dynamis shell above: If you are in a shell that bots, you are a douchebag. If you are forced to do douchebag things to stay in that shell, you are douchebag. If you are forced to do douchebag things in multiple endgame events that disrupts a system that has been stable for almost eight years, you are a douchebag. You can try to justify it all you want, I don't care. I still think the people you are describing are douchebags.

Second, regarding my "holier-than-thou, vigilante antics": I hadn't thought of it that way, but thanks for the flattery I guess? I don't really care what people do with the information. You can laugh at it, you can ignore it, you can call me whatever kind of names you want to. I'm posting information. I have a certain bias about the information, being that my shell only runs Sundays and Thursdays (although, as I said before, others can post their lists here as well), but the fact is people can do whatever they want with the info.
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I also dislike botting, but I have to somewhat agree with Divinius here, that you cant go around labelling EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of a shell a douche just cuz they go along with it. Is it bad? Most definately! Could they up and leave the shell if it is against their morals? Of course! But consider the position some of these people are in. A good chunk of them have probably built up points towards a specific item, and would rather not waste all that time invested over it. Is that my personal preference? Hell no, I'd rather start all over than stick with a shell that annoys the fuck outta me and breaks the rules, but neither can I expect that type of attitude from the rest of the populace.

Simply put, it's easy to judge when you yourself aren't in that situation, so how about you reserve judgement until ever specific person has actually done something bad to you eh? Dont over-generalize.
 
I agree to some extent Hexx. This is similar to the time that Grandpheonx(sp)'s shell ragnarok stole an hourglass from a japanese shell. Twisted and Grandpheonx(sp) both said it was the right thing to do, while many entered the run. I think it was a terrible thing to do to the other shell, however many of the shells members did not enter the run.... rather they logged for the night, or dropped pearl.

I think that if you join in on sniping, stealing, or botting to receive any rewards you are not in my good graces.... plain and simple.
 
Like the guy who drove the people to the death camps, "I was only doing my job I didnt order those people killed I just did as I was told and drove them to those death camps...."
 
Jeska said:
Like the guy who drove the people to the death camps, "I was only doing my job I didnt order those people killed I just did as I was told and drove them to those death camps...."
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Comparing this to dynamis stealing lol.
 
Jeska said:
Like the guy who drove the people to the death camps, "I was only doing my job I didnt order those people killed I just did as I was told and drove them to those death camps...."
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I never could understand how people could even consider comparing a video game to real life, especially something that horrible.
 
was compairing it to Nicolette's thread, try reading it and lighten up please Venus we all joke about death in various forms lets not assume anyone on here is actually being serious...
 
Its not the usage i was comparing, but the psychology behind previous statements. If you cant see the comparison maybe you shouldn't be in the discussion.
 
Stupid no edit flameboard

From the above wikipedia entry:

"Milgram's testing suggested that it could have been that the millions of accomplices were merely following orders, despite violating their deepest moral beliefs."

And no, i dont believe not being a douchebag zone-jacker even remotely qualifies as a deeply held moral belief.
 
Well for those of you who find Jeska's RL comparison a little extreme, here's one I feel totally fits:

Every day when I left from college, I had to get on Interstate 65 in downtown Birmingham, Alabama. I had to nearly immediately cut across 4 lanes of traffic, in rush hour, to make my offramp about 2 miles up the road. I noticed that even given the traffic volume, it was unbelievably hard to get over. Then I realized why:

There was a lane that ran out and merged into the inside lane. Every day it was filled with local people, people who knew it ran out, but were nonetheless trying to haul ass up it to the dead end, invariably stopping, and relying on the kindness of others to allow them into the other lane, thereby slowing an already congested area to an absolute crawl. I'd like to stress this again - this was LOCAL traffic, people who should know better, not through traffic that might have within reason not known far enough in advance that the lane ran out.

I took to detouring, but not quite in the direction you'd expect. I started detouring upstream from that spot. Not only did this give me more time to get in the lane I needed, it also let me do this:

I'd roll my window down. I'd lean my elbow out and generally try my best to look like I was just an easy-going guy without a care in the world. I made it a point to make eye contact with all those eager folks in the merging lane. When someone invariable took the bait and asked if I'd let em out, I'd tell em, and I quote:

"No, because I think it's high time someone reminded you that you're no more important than the hundred people you're trying to cut in front of and the dozen or so you'll try to take advantage of now. Have a great day, asshole."​

So yeah, given that there's prolly not an LS out there who hasn't at least had the website mentioned to them at this point, I'm giving everybody another few weeks until I unleash hell.
 
Wait, so you're saying the townies waiting to enter the 4lane highway are like people who schedule events, and the assholes speeding along not letting them in are the zone jackers?

Im confused.
 
Zone jackers: Asshats riding the merge lane for 5 MILES til it deadended, running ahead of the people who'd already vacated the lane, then stopping and waiting til someone was gullible enough to STOP and let them out.


_________________________________ Merge Lane (complete with signs that start 5 miles back at the previous on-ramp)

_________________________________________________ (New) Inside Lane

_________________________________________________Through Lane

_________________________________________________ Through Lane

_________________________________________________Through Lane

________________________On-ramp(Me)

For those who'll say, "Well that's a poorly-designed Interstate system," isn't an uninstanced, high-demand activity poor design as well? This analogy works on soooo many levels!
 
Godwin'd on the 30th post. Not quite a record for QCDN, but it's up there.

Here's the thing; you can plead ignorance on the part of the people who join these shells, and say "oh well, they didn't know".

But that only holds true for a set period of time, and chances are that by now they most certainly do know. I'm sure it's been shouted at them often enough.

And yes, if you knowingly associate with people who commit acts of douchbaggery, then you, by extension, are also a douchebag.
 
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