Dynamis Shells Funding Weapons

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Let's leave imflammatory remarks out of this, please...

Firestreak, you'e right in theory. However, that's basic macroeconomics you bring up. If you consider the fact that 18500 coins at 25k is 462.5M gil (mind you, it's 647.5M with the current market price of 35k), this doesn't follow the simple supply-demand model you talk about, because no one has the capital to actually purchase that in its entirety.

Also, there are two bottlenecks in the ancient currency market. The obvious one is the price, but the other one you're overlooking is the inflow of the currency itself into the market (which, of course affects the former) The problem with your "open market" approach is that the average person doesn't take into account the scale of what it takes to complete the relic. They look at the short term goals--like the 400 coins for the first stage and start buying coins. Perhaps it's difficult the grasp the near-exponential requirements of the later stages. The end result is that the server will be full of stage 2 relics because people give up. Also recall that the coins are "consumables" in this respect. There is no resale value once it is used for a relic.

This leads to two things: price inflation due to increased demand (by the short-sighted purchasers), and a supply shortage due to an expanded consumer base.

By keeping the market closed to people you know are serious about the endeavor, you can control the price and usage of the coins. At least, that is the philosophy of our shell.
 
Fact 1: No NA/EU is gonna pay more then 400M for a relic. If they try to they will give up early.
Fact 2: No NA/EU has completed a relic by buying 100% of their coins from bazaars.
Fact 3: The only NA/EU people who have completed relics got coins for free or heavily discounted from friends/ls's.

Please disprove these facts with names of people who have proved them wrong. If you can't then please do not reply to this post.
 
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metachronism said:
Let's leave imflammatory remarks out of this, please...

Firestreak, you'e right in theory. However, that's basic macroeconomics you bring up. If you consider the fact that 18500 coins at 25k is 462.5M gil (mind you, it's 647.5M with the current market price of 35k), this doesn't follow the simple supply-demand model you talk about, because no one has the capital to actually purchase that in its entirety.

Also, there are two bottlenecks in the ancient currency market. The obvious one is the price, but the other one you're overlooking is the inflow of the currency itself into the market (which, of course affects the former) The problem with your "open market" approach is that the average person doesn't take into account the scale of what it takes to complete the relic. They look at the short term goals--like the 400 coins for the first stage and start buying coins. Perhaps it's difficult the grasp the near-exponential requirements of the later stages. The end result is that the server will be full of stage 2 relics because people give up. Also recall that the coins are "consumables" in this respect. There is no resale value once it is used for a relic.

This leads to two things: price inflation due to increased demand (by the short-sighted purchasers), and a supply shortage due to an expanded consumer base.

By keeping the market closed to people you know are serious about the endeavor, you can control the price and usage of the coins. At least, that is the philosophy of our shell.
Click to expand...

People consuming coins makes it more dififcult for relic upgraders but at the same time increases demand for the coins, raising their value allowing the shell members to profit more off of their sale.

Yet there are people out there who can't hold any more gil on their character cause it caps at 1 below a billion. when people try and force the price up to like 50 per coin and those people decide it's not worth it, then the price will lower on its own. If there's people willing to buy at 25k per coin, they will sell that high until all those people get their coins.

The point being that the supply is very limited when considering how many are required to make a lvl 4 weapon and the demand is enourmous. So much that the 100 mill base fee is a joke when compared with the value of 100 mill 2 years ago.
 
decidence said:
Fact 1: No NA/EU is gonna pay more then 400M for a relic. If they try to they will give up early.
Fact 2: No NA/EU has completed a relic by buying 100% of their coins from bazaars.
Fact 3: The only NA/EU people who have completed relics got coins for free or heavily discounted from friends/ls's.

Please disprove these facts with names of people who have proved them wrong. If you can't then please do not reply to this post.
Click to expand...

Why should I care that you get a relic instead of some other guy because you live in Canada?

I'm not making the argument that the system I'm describing is best for NA upgraders, I'm making the argument that the prices of coins won't drop down to 5k-10k a coin as you predict, I'm guessing, predicting it based on an imaginary economy where there are no Japanese players.
 
I am right because I have black hair.

If you can't think of an example of me not having black hair please do not respond to this thread, delete your account on QCDN and delete your character.

Because you must refute that I have black hair not refute that it matters one bit in this debate.
 
Firestreak said:
People consuming coins makes it more dififcult for relic upgraders but at the same time increases demand for the coins, raising their value allowing the shell members to profit more off of their sale.

Yet there are people out there who can't hold any more gil on their character cause it caps at 1 below a billion. when people try and force the price up to like 50 per coin and those people decide it's not worth it, then the price will lower on its own. If there's people willing to buy at 25k per coin, they will sell that high until all those people get their coins.

The point being that the supply is very limited when considering how many are required to make a lvl 4 weapon and the demand is enourmous. So much that the 100 mill base fee is a joke when compared with the value of 100 mill 2 years ago.
Click to expand...

Well, we agree on two things:

1) The 25k market price is the natural result of market forces
2) Most relic upgraders do not have the gil to purchase ancient currency in its entirety. Who are these guys that have maxed out gil? Hook me up with them. I can lighten their load ;)

So... the market price is at a value where the upgraders are unable to finish the relics--don't you think that's defeating the purpose (As a corollary, this supports my argument that there are short-sighted consumers in the market)?

I'd like to see my fellow members finish their relics. This is why I advocate the closed market. Whatever the open market price will be, if you freelot and sell, it'll be chump change for each member, of course, because we're talking about many orders of magnitude difference.

Dynamis should be a goal-oriented endavor, not a gil farming session, IMHO. If gil was your first priority, you'd have better return on time investment fighting gilsellers over goobues in zitah.
 
metachronism said:
Well, we agree on two things:

1) The 25k market price is the natural result of market forces
2) Most relic upgraders do not have the gil to purchase ancient currency in its entirety. Who are these guys that have maxed out gil? Hook me up with them. I can lighten their load ;)

So... the market price is at a value where the upgraders are unable to finish the relics--don't you think that's defeating the purpose (As a corollary, this supports my argument that there are short-sighted consumers in the market)?

I'd like to see my fellow members finish their relics. This is why I advocate the closed market. Whatever the open market price will be, if you freelot and sell, it'll be chump change for each member, of course, because we're talking about many orders of magnitude difference.

Dynamis should be a goal-oriented endavor, not a gil farming session, IMHO. If gil was your first priority, you'd have better return on time investment fighting gilsellers over goobues in zitah.
Click to expand...

As Decidence has pointed out, they are Japanese. There are however a few extremely rich NA out there, I may direct you to some of our more recent crafting related QCDN flame bitch fests

Dynamis is not a gil making activity, no. But I doubt your shell exists to give people free coins either. The point is AF2 and shadow items - the question remains what to do with the coins.

The question really is, prefer 800 mill spread out and given to all your members, or a 900 mill item given to a member who considers it worth 400 mill for 100 mill?

If they're getting it for 100 mill they should at LEAST cover the costs of people's reraise items, food, tools, ammo too, maybe equal the prices out some.
 
Well, I guess we're at an impasse lol
If your shell is happy with the modus operandi of your shell, I have nothing to say. As I said, what matters to me is that the members are content with what they're getting out of the time and effort they put in.
 
I'm fine with dynamis shells funding relic weapons...
but please make it worthwhile.

Aegis/Bjallahorn only(maybe excal)\

Anything else, do it on your own time/money.
 
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