Edge: Halo 3 More Innovative Than Portal...

I think the biggest problem is the difficulty in distinguishing innovative with good. For example, let's talk about the gameplay mechanics of Haze. You can say that Call of Duty 4 has better gameplay mechanics than Haze, while Haze has, in fact, more innovation. The reality is that innovation doesn't always mean quality.

What Halo 3 does is it takes a whole lot of other people's innovations - matchmaking components from different games, replay features from different games, game play mechanics from its own prior iterations, and puts them together in a well functional, cohesive package. It advances the genre in the respect that it lifts the bar on what's expected, but it doesn't add anything that's on its own new.

Now portal adds a new game play mechanic that the entire game is centered around. Has it been done before by others? Not sure, if so, doesn't add much in that regards, it just, like Halo 3, perfects its use.

When I think about innovation, I think about games that add features that have never been singulary featured in a game, and I mean a video game, not just a console game... ignoring PC games is retarded. I'm sure most of the innovative things that happen none of us ever heard of, cause they were some PC indy, non commercial junk. Game journalists are of course, not journalists, because the only information they gather is what comes from publishers being sent to them. They don't go out and investigate innovation out there in the PC space, they spend their days making retarded top 10 hottest chicks in a sega game lists and pondering the frame rate differences between the PS3 and 360 versions of the lattest retarded sports game.

I'm just talking about real, new features and ideas, not perfecting other people's ideas.

Don't get me wrong, games like Drawn to Life and Eye of Judgement might be complete shit, it doesn't mean I'll buy them. Just saying let's give credit where it's due. Just because Halo effectively combines a lot of other people's ideas together, it doesn't make it innovative... it makes it good.

I'll take good over innovative if I have to pick.
 
The thing about halos replay data, is that it is NOT a video AT ALL. its 100% data being recreated, which is the reason the file for it is such a small file size compared to what a real video file would have been.
and to even compare it to FRAPS whatsoever is dumb, Once you record whatever you record with fraps, thats it, thats the footage you have. No going back changing angles, changing POV, nothing. Thats it.
The video in halo 3 can be changed anytime you want in any way you want. Being an avid video editor and 3d rendering artist, using Fraps as a comparison just shows how much you dont know about the feature to even be in the debate.
Ive used fraps more times than i can count, and the percent it has to hold for comparison for the saved halo feature, is 1%.
 
I'd also like to point out, that the Halo 3 video program isn't exactly a game, if such distinctions matter. It's not a common feature and never will be, because it's not correlated to a game play experience, while it at the same time eats up game play resources via the RAM.

What is it, as I've said before, is a dumbed down 3D animation program... of which dozens of better ones exist, except that it's packaged in with the Halo 3 game and given access to Halo 3's assets.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have put it in, it's a nice addition. Just trying to place exactly what that feature qualities as. The campaign and multiplayer is the game, the forge affects the gameplay and is therefore within that sphere, this is something merely for export, it doesn't cycle inward, or affect gameplay. It's rather targeted towards a sub-section of the regular target, people who play Halo and also like making videos. It's not however, like the act of playing Halo itself.

To make sense of what I'm saying, imagine in Gears of War 2, if they threw in a graphing calculator you could pull up from the main menu. Now's it's highly possible that people who play Gears of War may also need to use a graphic calculator. There's no reason not to add it in if there would be free space on the disc and it doesn't eat up game resources. I could also say to you, "Name me another game that has a built in graphing calculator!" It's however about as relevant as Halo's movie making feature. Neither add to the gameplay experience, rather they address an entirely different desire altogether - respectively making videos to upload on youtube, or solving Mrs Moffa's calculus homework.

What I would define as part of the game has to be a feature that will circle back into the game itself. Making maps, mods, customized soundtrack, customized characters, stats, using new peripherals, new gameplay mechanics. Debately even something as stupid as using your webcam to post a picture of your ugly face on your Burnout license... circles back into the game itself(though I could argue that doesn't affect the game at all therefore isn't a "game" innovation.

Hope you can understand my point. I'm not really arguing against your points for enjoying the video creation feature, or Halo 3 itself. I'm not saying what you're saying is wrong, rather focusing on the idea of what exactly is "game" innovation, and where are the boundaries? Is it innovative if the game comes off a download service instead of a media? Is it innovative if the game comes on optical disc instead of cartridge? Is it innovative if it uses the wii-mote instead of a traditional controller, even if the gameplay itself is not at all new and gains nothing from it?

I am a fairly strict judge of what I'd accept in the innovation catagory because I recognize the problems with a more open approach - a conclusion a came to after people tried to tell me that somehow Twilight Princess on Wii was "innovative" because they shake the nunchuck instead of pressing the B button.
 
Firestreak said:
To make sense of what I'm saying, imagine in Gears of War 2, if they threw in a graphing calculator you could pull up from the main menu. Now's it's highly possible that people who play Gears of War may also need to use a graphic calculator. There's no reason not to add it in if there would be free space on the disc and it doesn't eat up game resources. I could also say to you, "Name me another game that has a built in graphing calculator!" It's however about as relevant as Halo's movie making feature. Neither add to the gameplay experience, rather they address an entirely different desire altogether - respectively making videos to upload on youtube, or solving Mrs Moffa's calculus homework.
.
Click to expand...

Fire i understand you. I dont agree. Halos movie feature is an important part to the game. If you dont use it thats fine. You need to understand how Halo2 made youtube so overpopulated with montages... It was like the freaking ipod craze but in a smaller world, the world being youtube. Halo3 made that craze easier to tap into. The replay feature is a huge part to the game. No its not an actual part of gameplay but a comparrison like you did is more of a shot at the tool then you trying to make sense. It is part of the Halo culture. If this were in Resistance or CoD4 there would be no argument to it. The fact is there are just too many Halo haters still lol.
 
I don't think I'm a Halo hater, I've been very positive about the game itself. I'm just saying I don't see these feature as a part of the game, more something that kind of exits the sphere of Halo 3 and becomes something independent entirely. I understand there's a community of youtubing Halo fans. I understand that this tool is designed with them in mind. I'm just pointing out that it's not part of the sphere of the gameplay, and not anything particularly new, just 2 things cobbled together.

The replay function, which has been in just about every NHL game I've ever played since NHL 94 for Sega - and yes it's had 3D camera control for years during the replay.

And a video encoder, which has been in tons of games.

I don't even think they're the first ones to put them together. I've seen it before, just don't remember where.
 
Raesvelg said:
Did I say "They didn't deserve the award" or anything along those lines? No. Enough with the blind fanboy routine.
Click to expand...

No but you did say this:

Raesvelg said:
There have been games with detailed replay options, games with the ability to use a free-roaming camera during replay, and games with the ability to save replays for later viewing.
Click to expand...

Enlighten me on which games these are. I've never seen a game with a recording feature that allows you to go back into the replay after its taken and change any part of the POV what so ever.

And gerry you don't get it. Sure you can record stuff in and make movies in other games but like skaw said you need someone else in spec mode to record it. In halo 3, you could have acted out that entire gerrys mod video and not recorded a single thing, then gone back into the recording file and gotten any angle or done anything you wanted to. And you missed the point of my video. I wasn't posting it to show you how good i was at H3, im saying watch the video at those points and see the use of the record feature.

For example towards the beginning of the video it shows a guy running and getting snipped in the face from HIS (not mine) 3rd person perspective. Then it shows the same snipe from my perspective showing I blind sniped the dude in the face. You cant do that with any other video recording program out there. Especially not one already built into a game.

Another thing thats great is that you don't have to record the games, they just do it automatically. In any other game where you'd say use fraps, you have to have fraps running and recording at all times if you want to catch something. And idk about you but I have a pretty good computer and I can barely handle playing a game and recording with fraps at the same time. In halo it just does it, no slow downs, and if i say pull a triple snipe i dont have to be like "AWW FUCK i didn't have fraps going" i can just go in save the game recording and check it out later. It really is amazing.
 
I have, and you seem to be comparing a replay function with a complete recording of the entire game. No they are not the same. Being able to reply the last play in a madden game is not the same as being able to go back and watch an ENTIRE online session being replayed, from which you can record and save parts of the clip at which point you can send to friends if you so chose.

Edit: Unless they recently changed madden to where you can record shit, or not just replay the last play. I honestly haven't played it in several years.

Replay =/= Recording.
 
Last edited:
Don't play Madden, just NHL, and you can go much further back than just the last face off in the newer games. It however doesn't really matter. We're talking innovation not implementation. Rather the addition of a new function not improvement of an old one.
 
RaidrX said:
I have, and you seem to be comparing a replay function with a complete recording of the entire game. No they are not the same. Being able to reply the last play in a madden game is not the same as being able to go back and watch an ENTIRE online session being replayed, from which you can record and save parts of the clip at which point you can send to friends if you so chose.

Edit: Unless they recently changed madden to where you can record shit, or not just replay the last play. I honestly haven't played it in several years.

Replay =/= Recording.
Click to expand...
The only difference is the length of time that's being recorded and that it's actually saving the data to your hard drive. Neither would be even remotely difficult for a sports game to also do. Hell, they could just factor out all of the play making and the GUI stuff on the recordings and it'd be like watching a real football game.
 
TheOsyris said:
The fact is there are just too many Halo haters still lol.
Click to expand...

I don't think he's a Halo hater, much as I'm not. But, more like me who hates the overhype that the game gets :p It's a good game, yes.. but the most innovative and best FPS of all time? That's pushing it. Then again that's the great thing about opinions I guess (when it comes to what's best) but innovative.. well.. it's not that.

As pointed out, the replay type function has been done. Just because Halo 3 does it a different way doesn't mean the effect is any different. It has the same outcome as the video recording of the sports games and able to change perspectives and such.

And, curious, but I always though Blizzard replays were made the same way. Not a "video" but it saves the data of how the game went and so the file's smaller than a straight video. Same with Valve's games when you save a Demo of like.. Counter Strike: Source or Team Fortress 2 or such. Then again, I could be wrong there.
 
Last edited:
Might not be difficult to do, but that doesn't change the fact it hasn't been done. I just remember sitting playing Madden with friends and being like "Oh don't snap the ball yet I want to go watch the replay" and after you watched it and moved on thats it.
 
Don't think anyone's calling it the most innovative of all time... just of... strangely enough, 2008. Not really hating up the hype, rather trying to logically separate innovation with quality. There's a term in H.R. known ironically as the Halo affect, which is what I suspect is the cause here.

Basically, when you're doing evaluations for an employee, there are lots of different areas you have to rate. If your overall opinion of the employee is high, it's common when reviewing them, to rate them highly even in areas where they are weak, because you are viewing them as an entire package - even when you're supposed to be looking at the specific area. We all do it, I'm sure I do as well all the time. Video game reviewers are horrible at this, I mean respectively look back at games that are generally considered bad but have good graphics - and alternatively look at games that are considered good but have bad graphics, and see who actually gets higher graphics scores.

What I'm getting at being maybe Halo 3 is the most innovative game of the year... of games that were really great. However of those games, as a collective, innovation was not their goal rather refinement was.
 
Last edited:
Elemmire said:
I don't think he's a Halo hater, much as I'm not. But, more like me who hates the overhype that the game gets :p It's a good game, yes.. but the most innovative and best FPS of all time? That's pushing it.
Click to expand...

I did not exactly mean Fire. He has his own points and opinions. There are just some people who have responded in this thread that know absolutley nothing about the record feature.

And just to add Ele lets not take this to another level about how innovative and important Halo is to FPS'... Please i dont want to sift through 10 more pages of peoples bitching opinions.

EDIT: To add to what Fires last post touched on... Innovation has no set in stone bar. I happen to agree with the article that claims Halo3 is more innovative. A jerk or maybe just call him a realist would say both games are not innovative because they are played the same way as the last thousand games before it... With a controller. I dont want to treat this thread like some serious issue so ill leave it with. I agree with the article.
 
Last edited:
RaidrX said:
Might not be difficult to do, but that doesn't change the fact it hasn't been done. I just remember sitting playing Madden with friends and being like "Oh don't snap the ball yet I want to go watch the replay" and after you watched it and moved on thats it.
Click to expand...
It hasn't been done because it's completely unnecessary. The only people who care about watching videos are those who are obsessed with the game.

If you had movies of full games, then I'm sure there'd be people watching them. They'd be a hell of a lot more interesting than the videos of Halo 3 matches. Instant replays would be significantly better, since all you'd really care about is the kill shot anyways, and only then if you did something cool to get it.
 
TheOsyris said:
I did not exactly mean Fire. He has his own points and opinions. There are just some people who have responded in this thread that know absolutley nothing about the record feature.

And just to add Ele lets not take this to another level about how innovative and important Halo is to FPS'... Please i dont want to sift through 10 more pages of peoples bitching opinions.
Click to expand...

but nothing of it was innovative... what about halo was innovative? Since Halo 1 to now... FPS haven't been innovative in ages. Just improvement of graphics, variations on weapon choices (but ultimately same kinda weapons), and a slight variation between stories.
 
Bajaratt said:
It hasn't been done because it's completely unnecessary. The only people who care about watching videos are those who are obsessed with the game.

If you had movies of full games, then I'm sure there'd be people watching them. They'd be a hell of a lot more interesting than the videos of Halo 3 matches. Instant replays would be significantly better, since all you'd really care about is the kill shot anyways, and only then if you did something cool to get it.
Click to expand...

Opinion.

And IRs wouldn't work in a FPS you cant just stop in the middle of a game to save a clip of that sick snipe you just did, you need the full game. Then you can go back and save a clip of the snipe to send to all your friends.

Whether or not you feel its an unnecessary feature doesn't change the fact its the most well done recording feature in any game out right now.
 
Elemmire said:
but nothing of it was innovative... what about halo was innovative? Since Halo 1 to now... FPS haven't been innovative in ages. Just improvement of graphics, variations on weapon choices (but ultimately same kinda weapons), and a slight variation between stories.
Click to expand...

Ok Ele stop. This is you stupid comment of the day. I will not go into detail with this. Just know you have been deemed stupid for the day in my eyes. Why do we need to now defend Halo and prove to you, a person who does not like the series anyways, how innovative the series has been. And if you toss in Marathon, which we now know is directly a part in the series of Halo the rabit hole just gets deeper. Ele do the peolel here who dont want 10 pages of argument a favor... Go look these answers up elsewhere.. The route you are going combined with a blockbuster game just turns ugly.
 
I said I like the series >.> I play it often when there are friends to play together with. But it's not freaking innovative. Even Marathon wasn't innovative other than maybe it's map maker which was the best map creator I've seen. I've heard people claim "Vehicles, Halo brought vehicles to FPS" and that's bullshit there. I've heard people claim the AI and that made me go "wha?". I've heard people make a lot of claims as to what Halo brought to be innovative. The only thing I could possibly think of is Co-Op mode, I can't think of a game before it that had that. And that's an awesome thing, I'll give it that.

And remember, I'm still counting PC games, for some reason so many people don't -_-

By the way, how is Halo 3 the most innovative game of 2008? It came out in 2007 >.> 2008 isn't even fucking over.. how about they wait until the year is over to decide what the most innovative game of that year is. And didn't Halo 3 win last year as well? I think Edge is just biased towards Halo 3, honestly.
 
Last edited:
Elemmire said:
I said I like the series >.> I play it often when there are friends to play together with. But it's not freaking innovative. Even Marathon wasn't innovative other than maybe it's map maker which was the best map creator I've seen. I've heard people claim "Vehicles, Halo brought vehicles to FPS" and that's bullshit there. I've heard people claim the AI and that made me go "wha?". I've heard people make a lot of claims as to what Halo brought to be innovative. The only thing I could possibly think of is Co-Op mode, I can't think of a game before it that had that. And that's an awesome thing, I'll give it that.

And remember, I'm still counting PC games, for some reason so many people don't -_-

By the way, how is Halo 3 the most innovative game of 2008? It came out in 2007 >.> 2008 isn't even fucking over.. how about they wait until the year is over to decide what the most innovative game of that year is. And didn't Halo 3 win last year as well? I think Edge is just biased towards Halo 3, honestly.
Click to expand...

Seriously Osyris is right you are just trying to find things that are bad about halo and trying to make anything else seem better just stop talking about it already.

And you think Edge is biased towards Halo 3, I think you're biased against Halo 3.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top