Elemental Debuffs, Drain and other Blm oddities

[Morari]

...did these become less important without someone telling me?

It's gotten to the point where I'm in a party as a white mage and if I don't cast Frost and Shock, the black mage won't. Are they just not important anymore? Even when I'm playing as black mage (my current support job) I'm asked why I'm even casting those at all...

Player 1: You don't need to cast Frost.
Me: {Um...} Why?
Player 1: Because you need to be nuking instead.

Of course the above conversation has had the elite speak edited out.

I believe that there are no "subjobs." Sub carries with it the idea that it is somehow less important than one's full or main job. The effort I put into Black Mage should be equal or more to the effort I put into my main of White Mage (though I'm slacking in my responsibility to setup efficient MBs). That being said, if somehow it was discovered that the elemental debuffs are crappy, I'll stop wasting MP. Subtle Hint to White Mages: Don't use the bar-status-ra spells. Learn correlation between the status effects and the elements and cast the bar-element-ra spells instead.

As for Drain, how can a black mage get to 30 and still believe that Drain doesn't do damage outside of the amount drained? I was told the other night not to cast Drain because it doesn't hurt the mob. I've found that Dark Magic is one of the easiest to level up. Just cast Drain every battle, you hurt the mob and almost always get a skill up. Why aren't more people taking advantage of this? Is there something else I'm missing?

Finally I have a question: As a White Mage I'm fairly certain I need to pump as much into MP and MND, in that order, as possible. I'm not quite as certain of the analog for the Black Mage. I've heard to concentrate on INT over everything, or Elemental Magic skill above all. Even the same MP over everything spiel that white mages use. So what's more important?

 

[Lanien]

I always ask the BLM to cast Frost at least. They usually have no problem doing so. I was in a party where the BLM specifically asked which spells he wanted us to cast. Now that is a mage I like. And it's not like he asked which ones because he didn't know what he was doing, rather asking to see what each job prefered to be done. He admitted he rarely pt'ed with dragoon so was wondering how I liked things done lol

 

[Falsey]

Player 1: You don't need to cast Frost.
Me: {Um...} Why?
Player 1: Because you need to be nuking instead.

As a rule, debuffing the mob, is as important as nuking, if not more important. You cant nuke none-stop, but you can keep the mobs debuffs up all the time. Frost, Rasp, Drown, Shock, Burn and Choke, are imoprtant spells to have.

Finally I have a question: As a White Mage I'm fairly certain I need to pump as much into MP and MND, in that order, as possible. I'm not quite as certain of the analog for the Black Mage. I've heard to concentrate on INT over everything, or Elemental Magic skill above all. Even the same MP over everything spiel that white mages use. So what's more important?

WHM: MND over MP, unless you are Elvaan or Galka
BLM: INT over MP.

 

[Rones]

Lots of ground to cover.

First, as a whm/blm don't bother casting elemental debuffs. These are based on your elemental skill which is halved as a whm. So these will get resisted bad. However, these have a very good dmg to mp ratio (plus no hate) if cast at the beginning of fight by the blm or rdm who do have good elemental skill along with their stat effects. The oither nice thing about elemental debuffs is you can have up to three on at a time if you don't do adjacent elements, eg: water cancels fire which cancels ice.

As for stats, whms would be correct in pumping mnd like blm's pump int as much as possible except for one little catch that blm's don't run into while exping. Our cures get capped. Once you reach your cure cap you could put on an additional +30 mnd and it would have no effect. Typically the only times you need the extra mnd to reach the cure cap is the lvl or 2 when you get a new cure spell and while your healing skill is catching up. The only exception to this is cure V which I have not heard of anyone being able to cap. But cure V is upper lvl and already such a large amount to try to fit in that adding 3-4 hp healed with + mnd gear to a 700+ cure isn't worth it.

While +mnd is still nice, its not top priority for a whm. As a whm you will want to focus on +mpheal, -enimity ,and +mp regardless of race. Until you reach af you will be stuck with just focusing on mp. At the upper lvls you will have a choice based on your playing style. This breaks down to +mph> -enimity > +mp > +mnd. Depending on your tank and playing style you can switch the enimity and mp. For nins you want more -enimity and plds you can get away with less. You could do what I do and add your -enimity gear to your macros for high hate spells like cure IV and then switch back when you rest with another macro.

Now for blms. Like whms their nukes are capped. Unlike whms, they don't reach that cap against exp mobs. Thus all the +int you can get is improving your dmg per mp ratio (and having a slight effect on resist rates). Another factore to consider is +elemental gear. While this has less effect on your dmg than +int, it does have a stronger effect on your resist rates which against exp mobs will ultimately help more. Something to keep in mind is that a blm's power is typically limited by the rate at which he can regain mp, but his areas to improve that are rather limited, thus +int and +elemental skill are used. +mpH > +elemental skill> +int > mp gear; just to break it down.

As for Drain, how can a black mage get to 30 and still believe that Drain doesn't do damage outside of the amount drained?

It does dmg equal to the amount drain. The confusion comes when you drain and have full hp. Usually the drain isn't enough to see the mob's hp bar drop, so people assume it didn't do anything, however it did in fact still hurt the mob. If I remember right from my blm days drain has a pretty decent dmg per mp ratio with its limiting factor being a long cool down.

 

[Rappa]

If I remember right from my blm days drain has a pretty decent dmg per mp ratio with its limiting factor being a long cool down.

Even as a DRK, sometimes against the right mobs I can have my Drain do even more damage than my regular attacks (my dark magic skill is capped for what it's worth).

And yes, you do damage even if your HP is full. You don't have to be a genius to prove this, take any job you want to that has Drain and go drain a Tiny Mandragora with your HP bar full.

 

[Firestreak]

Everything Rones said is 100% right. I'll just specify that for WHM MP regen, Max MP and -Enmity are really really going to be prioritized differently depending on your race, some expensive items you'll have and what not.

For example, I took the Vermillion's Cloak, so to compensate for the lack of the -enmity I'd get from AF Hat and body I use penitence rope and Sapient cape. It seems like there's a limit to how much -enmity is needed and how much +MND is needed, because while Cure 5 and -enmity might not cape, its value will be reduced as you strengthen it. Once you have so much -enmity, more won't help because you'll barely ever get hate as you don't generate hate like a BLM does typically. Once your cure 5 is so strong, you'll cure your tank from red to full in one blast. So what's the point in getting it stronger? You can't let the tank get lower or else a critical can kill them.
Now MP Regen and Max MP is great, expensive sometimes but great. I'd just say if you're a taru don't be stupid with the HP > MP conversion gear. If you have 900 base MP and 600 base HP no need really to tempt fate.


Lastly, I think any BLM that nukes nonstop from the start of the battle tho the end has either got to pull hate from even the best tank or be some fricking weak ass nuker. And even if it wasn't true, what about the MP for the rest of the chain?

 

[Drewtaru]

i love Conserve MP gear.... i'd put that over +mp gear, but not much out there that i can think of. Igquira boots, Duende Cotehardie, AF2 boots, 50blm subligar.

Magic Attack bonus gear > +int.... i think.....

elemental debuffs are great... i always frost.......
sometimes choke.... if my party is more melee based or something....
burn i didnt used to use, i use it more now, makes my nukes a little stronger.....
shock..... why would i use that constantly???
drown.... whats this do again??? im guessing -STR. meh.
rasp.... used to use long ago, but i dont think it's really good anymore. Maybe good if you have a nin tank.

By endgame things change. If you fight big ol' sky gods or HNMs all day might want to up the elemental skill thats for sure. Party situations mag attk bonus or int and -enmity (errants gear spoiled me). Soloing is MP (takes me around 8mins to solo a robber crab).

As far as MP refresh gear.... im not a fan. 1mp/3sec = 10mp/30sec = 100mp/5min. mp/time conversion sounds good when you think in seconds, but when you look at it as minutes... ugh.
Not saying i wont use it, just not so much depending on the situation. Black cloak is pretty good cause its not only refresh. And seeing how i NPC stored my AF and dont exactly have access to the 1 or 2 pieces i'd ever use (main one being the hat), my demons cloak is better than most combinations i can work with. I even bought an errants hat. I sold my errants hopp long ago. Needed money, i miss it.

 

[Osse]

There is some good advice written above, so much so that it's hard to add much. But here are a few thoughts.

Shock: lower mobs' mind and helps the whm or rdm debuffs stick. This is not always needed, but most parties will benefit from it. I happen to cast it routinely.

Burn: lower's mobs' INT and increases the damage from blm nukes. Up to this point I only cast it when showing off, lol. I'd rather have frost on the mob. If the melee's hit more often, they will hold hate better, get TP faster, and you can MB more often. I may change my mind at the higher levels about this spell (see INT vs. MP below).

Frost: Lowers mobs' AGI, so melee hit more often.

The other elemental debuffs can be useful depending on pt setup, but since I'm in a static group I don't have to change my tactics much from mob to mob.

INT vs. MP:

This depends upon level for BLM. I'm sure the actual calculation for spell damage is more complicated than this, but basically a +1 Int will increase damage by 1-2%. For your Thunder I spell, that's about 1 point of damage. As the spells do more innate damage, however, this can really add up. Furthermore, the higher level nukes seem to get more "leverage" for each point of +Int (ie a bit more than the quoted 1-2%). That's why burn may be more attractive when I get to say Thunder III. So early on, +mp is better to obtain longer xp chains. Later levels, +Int is better; when your spells cost 100+ mp, another +4 mp is no help.

Finally, get +Elemental skill above all else. Elemental skill is THE biggest factor that determines whether your spells will get resisted for only 75%, 50% or even less damage. INT plays a role, but you won't notice a difference unless you take off about +20 in INT gear and try casting again. I can say this with some confidence since I macro +INT and +MP gear changes as needed. When I go from +36 INT to +15 INT, there is a slight increase in the resist rate, but only slight. But if I take off my AF gloves which have +15 Elemental magic, things go straight to the crapper.

As for WHM,... others can give you more advice than me.