End Game Mindset. Why?

[Arctyrael]

I remember way back to when I was a level 3 whm killing Forest Hare in West Ronfaure -- so giddy that this game was so awesome. I enjoyed it a lot.

Fast forward 57 levels where I found myself to be a level 60 WHM. Now at this point I should have quit WHM and taken up another job, but I didn't. I was poor, had very few in game friends, but I did have a really good linkshell for ~60. (ArcaneGarden btw) I remember I was shouting for my AF feet and Reality, who had helped with 2 other of my AF pieces also took me to do that.

I had asked about HNM shells and such and how to make good money. At this time, Reality was in some HNM shell and after we murdered a ton of Yagudo Abbots, he took me to Roc. Course I was too weak, he said at 65 I'd likely be able to find a shell.

65 came and went. No HNM shell. No allure or promise of money. Instead, all I get was the demand for level 70.

So I continue drudging the terrible job to 70 in hopes of money and armor. Somewhere along the line of either getting to 70 or shortly thereafter, I joined up with the newly reformed CelestialKnights. I was attempting to get my way through ZM4 when we found a group that appeared to know where to go and what to do. We did that, and the next day I started on ZM5 stuff in Fei'Yin where I met up wiht them again. They graciously allowed me to tag along and before long - I had sky. wooT. I joined the shell and stayed there the longest I'd stayed in any shell.

Ding 75, I had hit the final level. This meant, WHM WAS DONE. I was as giddy as I was when I first started playing... only for a shorter period of time. I was excited to finally be 75 at Gods and other endgame stuffs.

However, somewhere along the line... your focus changes when you start endgame, especially once your first job hits 75. The, I guess you'd call it ignorance, you had before 75 is gone. You now know what good exp is, and what isn't. The parties you thought were incredible before (WOOT 4k/hour) annoy the crap out of you now.

You grind to the same tune every week. Sky - Sunday, Dynamis - Monday. Free day - Tuesday. Sea - Wednesday. Sky - Thursday. Event - Friday. Sky - Saturday. Does it not get boring to anyone?

Personally, I found the game to be more fun leveling WHM, as much as I hated it, than i did when my schedule was so bogged down I couldn't breath. Sure, sky was fun when it was new. When we did different things. However, after a while, it just gets so old. I've noticed people seldom take a break from sky either for fear of falling out of grace with their linkshell, or slacking back on the points for the item everyone else wants.

Long post, but does anyone else know what I'm talking about? I've forsaked endgame because the set schedule just killed me. I did it every week, at the same time, doing the same things. I couldn't just get an impromptu party on summonr or anything. I had to revolve my FFXI calendar around these massive events.

I leave the exception to this post with those that enjoy doing the same endgame stuff repeatedly ^-^. I'm sure Fafnir is fun when you claim reasonable amounts.

 

[neophytal]

yeah, alot of people can probably relate to what you are saying. sometimes things do get mundane. however, you should pick a linkshell that chooses to let you come at your convienence. some do, some dont. but rewards are always based on participation (or the fair linkshells are this way) and so you cant expect much without putting in much.

personally for me, i really dont get tired of stuff too much because i dont get to play too often anymore with my work schedule and other such things going on. it actually makes the everyday activities quite exciting.

 

[Uzor]

you speak blasphemy! <.<;

 

[Arctyrael]

CK was fair, still is I assume.

I'm not in any endgame shell. My point to the post, which probably would be best at the end of it, is why people become entrapped. Why they feel they can't take a break and go back to the pre-75 mentality. Level a new job, or level a craft, or farm. There are so many OTHER things to do than just continue to pimp your character with the latest (Sea) fashions.

 

[Halifirien]

I've had a hard time getting into the endgame frame of mind, mostly because when I hear the phrase "endgame" I think "You mean the stuff you do when you're bored with everything else?" and I'm not at that point yet.

I've been to Sky and had a lot of fun, but it got old fast. I've learned that I hate hate hate camping HNMs if I'm expected to stay alert and help with claims. Mostly the idea of surrendering my time to a linkshell's activities -- "Quick, drop everything and get to this camp ASAP!" -- drives me up the wall.

Quieren kids me that I got Sea access but have no real interest in joining a Sea LS. "Do I have to drag you kicking and screaming into endgame?" he's asked once or twice.

The only exception so far has been Dynamis, which I've greatly enjoyed so far. I stepped away from it because of other priorities, but now I want to get back into it.

Maybe my attitude stems from being a WHM and there's very little for me (although I'd love to get my taru hands on one of those Genbu Shields). I'm sure when my MNK and BST are up near those uber-gear levels I'll be more motivated to get involved, but even then I can't imagine being in Sky every other day like some of these groups seem to want.

 

[Bajaratt]

I agree that it can get boring after a while, but there's nothing wrong with taking a break and coming back if you want. If you're finding yourself burned out on one or more aspects of endgame, I'd recommend trying others or just take a break from endgame all together for a while.

The other thing is that endgame isn't for everyone. It's an unfortunate, but ultimately true fact of the game's mechanics. Because of the massive amount of time needed to accomplish most endgame activities, and the need for dedication to those activites, not everyone is available or even interested in participating. Casual players, who don't play as much as the hardcore players, generally fall into this group, but not all of them do. Many of those players also have some resentment at recieving gear/items much later than their hardcore counterparts, but that is also an unfortunate fact of the game.

If you don't enjoy endgame, you don't have to participate in it. You shouldn't have to force yourself to do something you hate just because other people re doing it.

Also, there's nothing stopping you from doing things like crafting or leveling other jobs once you're in an endgame linkshell. After I hit 75 on whm, I continued leveling my other jobs during the times that we didn't have events going. Even in the busiest of endgame shells, I don't think they have events going all day every day, there is generally enough free time to do something else.

 

[Arctyrael]

I've had a hard time getting into the endgame frame of mind, mostly because when I hear the phrase "endgame" I think "You mean the stuff you do when you're bored with everything else?" and I'm not at that point yet.

I've been to Sky and had a lot of fun, but it got old fast. I've learned that I hate hate hate camping HNMs if I'm expected to stay alert and help with claims. Mostly the idea of surrendering my time to a linkshell's activities -- "Quick, drop everything and get to this camp ASAP!" -- drives me up the wall.

Quieren kids me that I got Sea access but have no real interest in joining a Sea LS. "Do I have to drag you kicking and screaming into endgame?" he's asked once or twice.

The only exception so far has been Dynamis, which I've greatly enjoyed so far. I stepped away from it because of other priorities, but now I want to get back into it.

Maybe my attitude stems from being a WHM and there's very little for me (although I'd love to get my taru hands on one of those Genbu Shields). I'm sure when my MNK and BST are up near those uber-gear levels I'll be more motivated to get involved, but even then I can't imagine being in Sky every other day like some of these groups seem to want.

You speak the gospel grasshopper. Maybe when my thief is 75 I'll understand better. As for now, I can afford to buy everything that I want w/out wasting my time on the rare/exc alts.

 

[Raesvelg]

Oddly enough, in some ways I prefer the more structured environment of the typical sky/sea shell. HNMs aren't really my thing, though I'm willing to camp them to help people out if needed. But I honestly don't mind the (in my case) Monday-Sky, Tuesday-Dynamis, Saturday-Dynamis aspect of my game schedule right now. Possibly because I refuse to have ALL my time occupied by endgame activities and don't mind telling people so.

 

[Geneviene]

Thank god for you and this post. I am also a 75 whm. Had an excellent end game shell show me the ropes at an early age of whm (think I was 68 ). Then left because I just didnt have time, started a shell with friends and realized, Wow I really really hate sky. I got so sick of the be here these days at these times or else! Mentality. Even our new shell that started out as a more relaxed environment became the same way. Something about end game does things to people. Suddenly you have to be leet! You have to have the best gear, you HAVE to be at sky, you have to tell everyone that you are a high lvl. These things seem to come with end game tho. Honestly, Im done with sky, with Dynamis with all of it. I have joined assault and have found it to be a very very welcome break. So from now on, Genie's gonna have some fun!

 

[Tyrath]

I found I like endgame events a lot more than I like levelling. But yeah, it starts to get boring if you're following a strict schedule like you mentioned.

 

[matchuu]

its only boring cause u are boring

Bah most Sky Ls's only schedule 2-3 days of events, and the armor pwns all others, why would u not want the best for your job, farming and camping NM has been a way a life for me and alot of other ppl. it doesnt bother me to farm in sky, its exciting when u have a successful sky farming day and everything seems to go well for u, nothing like killing ullik in front of the other 3 LS CCing u, killing kirin as rng is one of the most fun things to do in this game to me. why not set a goal for yourself for the next time u doin a HNM or sky god, how hard can i hit next, we have so much gear availible to everyone why not experiment with gear changes maybe u can find something new, change your sub see if u can make yourself better. be more competative if your goal isnt to be one of the best why spend countless hours in a game only to be average.

 

[Arctyrael]

Its not even so much about the gear Geneviene, although that is a part of it for many. WHM, if they are lucky, get 1 thing from sky, and even then, it can be obtained by tossing large gils at it.

I knew going into sky that I didn't get much of anything at all. I still enjoyed it initially. Then it started to suck. Overcrowding, the times, my schedule... all clashed to make it miserable.

Yet I still fell into the thought process I'm complaining about here. "I am 75, I should be doing this"

This isn't just a discussion about sky, it is also about dynamis, sea, and now eventally assault/besieged etc.. all those things that take so much time. Thank the lord for 1x a week dynamis onry.

 

[Stouter]

Bah most Sky Ls's only schedule 2-3 days of events, and the armor pwns all others, why would u not want the best for your job, farming and camping NM has been a way a life for me and alot of other ppl.

HNMs, sky, and other end game activites are much like everything else in this game. Some people love doing them, and don't mind doing them several times a week. Other people like to do them casually, a few hours a week or so. And finally there's people that can't stand sitting in the fafnir pit for 3 hours a day, every day, poising for claim every 30 minutes and goofing off the rest of the time. The same goes for crafting, fishing, leveling lowbie, and every other aspect of the game.

The problem is that most people don't want to go all out for several hours a week, but have trouble finding a good ls that only does activities once or twice a week while still having the force to do it effectively.

 

[eiteen]

since i hit level 75, i have no desire to join any end game linkshell... it just does not appeal to me... sky farming tues/wed, dynamis friday, gods sunday... in the end when you log off even after you got the best drop in the game, your still the same dumbass you were before you got that drop... its not like i can put on my resume... (not that i have any of these)

-50+ hours/week FFXI
-6 jobs level 75
-Kirin's Osode
-Noble's Tunic

if you can do that... and get paid a lot of money, then more power to you... i admit, i do spend a lot of time playing, but right now its nothing compare to what i was doing before... and im happier than ever... i went probably from 6-7 hours a day to like 2-3. but to each his own...

 

[Negorissimo]

Arc, this somehow reminded me of Highlander. Don't know why...

There was this guy named Connor, he died and found out he was an Immortal. Then he got a mentor and learned everything about this new game he was about to play. Everything was new and exciting and he ruled the streets with Katana in hand. Hello>Fight>There can be only one>Beheading.

After a few hundred years and some bad movies, he got tired of the routine and eventually got tired of it all. He then went into hiding and came out sometimes only on the TV show. Such was his grief and that he made his cousin duel him to the death. He could've accomplished so many more things if he just sucked it up and kept on going. But, he let himself be killed and now Duncan is the man!

You can't give up halfway into inmortality...

 

[Courtney]

So I continue drudging the terrible job to 70 in hopes of money and armor. Somewhere along the line of either getting to 70 or shortly thereafter, I joined up with the newly reformed CelestialKnights. I was attempting to get my way through ZM4 when we found a group that appeared to know where to go and what to do. We did that, and the next day I started on ZM5 stuff in Fei'Yin where I met up wiht them again. They graciously allowed me to tag along and before long - I had sky. wooT. I joined the shell and stayed there the longest I'd stayed in any shell.

Ding 75, I had hit the final level. This meant, WHM WAS DONE. I was as giddy as I was when I first started playing... only for a shorter period of time. I was excited to finally be 75 at Gods and other endgame stuffs.

However, somewhere along the line... your focus changes when you start endgame, especially once your first job hits 75. The, I guess you'd call it ignorance, you had before 75 is gone. You now know what good exp is, and what isn't. The parties you thought were incredible before (WOOT 4k/hour) annoy the crap out of you now.

You grind to the same tune every week. Sky - Sunday, Dynamis - Monday. Free day - Tuesday. Sea - Wednesday. Sky - Thursday. Event - Friday. Sky - Saturday. Does it not get boring to anyone?

Personally, I found the game to be more fun leveling WHM, as much as I hated it, than i did when my schedule was so bogged down I couldn't breath. Sure, sky was fun when it was new. When we did different things. However, after a while, it just gets so old. I've noticed people seldom take a break from sky either for fear of falling out of grace with their linkshell, or slacking back on the points for the item everyone else wants.

This may be a big part of your problem. If you hate levelling WHM then you're not going to enjoy playing it in the endgame either. It's still the same job.

When I finally got to 75 (and it took me awhile, well over a year...) I figured I had two options as to what to do next. I could start again with a new job, or I could keep playing RDM, and try to take it to the next level by fighting bigger and harder mobs.

I was still enjoying playing RDM so I decided to try the end game. I really wanted to see the big mobs in the game (which, back then, were the Gods and Kirin) and I figured that I wouldn't be experiencing the whole game if I didn't try them. Luckily RDM is a job that is useful endgame, but it still doesn't work if you don't enjoy playing the job.

Just on a couple of other points that you made.

Being stuck in Sky.
Sky is a stepping stone to bigger things. However if people keep leaving your shell as soon as they get what they want, then you get stuck in sky. The whole idea is to get your people equipped, and then to move on to bigger mobs. You never finish with sky altogether, because you will always have a trickle of new players who need to be equipped. If the gear leaves the shell as fast as you earn it though, you'll be stuck there indefinitely.

Gil.
Fighting HNMs earns you gil. It costs you gil though as well, and unless you're in a shell that just focusses on money HNMs (Serket Roc Simurgh etc) then it will never make you rich. The focus of most HNM shells is (as it should be) on equipping their members so that they can take on harder challenges, not on making gil. Most shells (including CK) are very clear about this to all prospective members... if join still expecting to get rich quick, then you only have yourself to blame. You could almost always make more gil solo, rather than on HNMs.

Gear.
You do get nice gear fighting HNMs. That gear is really only necesssary for fighting more HNMs though. If you're not in the HNM scene, there's really no need for Godly gear. Merit parties at 75 don't fight difficult mobs, and most of the really difficult mission fights are capped anyway. Sure its nice wandering around town in rare gear, but chances are that the Shell that helped you earn the gear did so to make both you AND THE SHELL stronger. If you don't plan on using the gear to help that shell, then you probably shouldn't take it (and probably don't really need it) in the first place.

 

[Blazeoffury]

This may be a big part of your problem. If you hate levelling WHM then you're not going to enjoy playing it in the endgame either. It's still the same job.

When I finally got to 75 (and it took me awhile, well over a year...) I figured I had two options as to what to do next. I could start again with a new job, or I could keep playing RDM, and try to take it to the next level by fighting bigger and harder mobs.

I was still enjoying playing RDM so I decided to try the end game. I really wanted to see the big mobs in the game (which, back then, were the Gods and Kirin) and I figured that I wouldn't be experiencing the whole game if I didn't try them. Luckily RDM is a job that is useful endgame, but it still doesn't work if you don't enjoy playing the job.

Just on a couple of other points that you made.

Being stuck in Sky.
Sky is a stepping stone to bigger things. However if people keep leaving your shell as soon as they get what they want, then you get stuck in sky. The whole idea is to get your people equipped, and then to move on to bigger mobs. You never finish with sky altogether, because you will always have a trickle of new players who need to be equipped. If the gear leaves the shell as fast as you earn it though, you'll be stuck there indefinitely.

Gil.
Fighting HNMs earns you gil. It costs you gil though as well, and unless you're in a shell that just focusses on money HNMs (Serket Roc Simurgh etc) then it will never make you rich. The focus of most HNM shells is (as it should be) on equipping their members so that they can take on harder challenges, not on making gil. Most shells (including CK) are very clear about this to all prospective members... if join still expecting to get rich quick, then you only have yourself to blame. You could almost always make more gil solo, rather than on HNMs.

Gear.
You do get nice gear fighting HNMs. That gear is really only necesssary for fighting more HNMs though. If you're not in the HNM scene, there's really no need for Godly gear. Merit parties at 75 don't fight difficult mobs, and most of the really difficult mission fights are capped anyway. Sure its nice wandering around town in rare gear, but chances are that the Shell that helped you earn the gear did so to make both you AND THE SHELL stronger. If you don't plan on using the gear to help that shell, then you probably shouldn't take it (and probably don't really need it) in the first place.

In my opinion all equip drops for all HNMs should go to anyone who has been camping the HNM and using it the most I.E. Speed Belt, Serket Ring, Healing Staff, Strider Boots, Alky. Brc. The reason the Japanese players on our server are so "pimp" as most NA like to put it are because they follow that guideline. They don't sell every damned drop. If someone doesn't like it they can tough it out or they can leave.

If it wasn't for the greediness and everyone expecting to get a monetary part off of every drop from every HNM they fought then more people and more LS's would be "pimped out".

What people fail to realize is that by gearing your LS members up with all of this great gear you are helping yourself out more in the long run with that LS. The longer you work for your gear the more skilled you become, the more skilled you become the better the gear you worked hard for wil enhance you, the better you are enhanced the better your Ls will become on Wyrms and landkings later on.

 

[Alyada]

Final Fantasy XI was an uphill struggle for me, literally. At every turn I was losing footing, toppling backwards, or just plain out of breath. Thankfully, there were people there to help me. Words of encouragement filled my ears, helping hands got me through Genkai, AF, missions, NM camping, you name it. Near the top I had to face the gatekeeper, Maat. He tossed me down a few times, but with the help of others I was able to beat him.

I reached the top I saw the crest of the hill lead out into open, grassy fields. Light from the sun warmed my body and rejuvinated me from my once slow, and terrible climb. Before me were ladders, each labled different things: HNM, Gods, Sea, Limbus... I saw people climbing them, trying to be the first to the top. I saw a lot of anger and strife because of the climb.

Then, suddenly, I turned my head and looked back down the hill. There I found many others, struggling as I had struggled, fighting as I had fought. With one last fleeting glimpse to the ladders, I began to slide back down the hill again. Those hands helping people to overcome their trails were my hands. This, my friends, is my "end-game."

 

[Blazeoffury]

Final Fantasy XI was an uphill struggle for me, literally. At every turn I was losing footing, toppling backwards, or just plain out of breath. Thankfully, there were people there to help me. Words of encouragement filled my ears, helping hands got me through Genkai, AF, missions, NM camping, you name it. Near the top I had to face the gatekeeper, Maat. He tossed me down a few times, but with the help of others I was able to beat him.

I reached the top I saw the crest of the hill lead out into open, grassy fields. Light from the sun warmed my body and rejuvinated me from my once slow, and terrible climb. Before me were ladders, each labled different things: HNM, Gods, Sea, Limbus... I saw people climbing them, trying to be the first to the top. I saw a lot of anger and strife because of the climb.

Then, suddenly, I turned my head and looked back down the hill. There I found many others, struggling as I had struggled, fighting as I had fought. With one last fleeting glimps to the ladders, I began to slide back down the hill again. Those hands helping people to overcome their trails were my hands. This, my friends, is my "end-game."

Possibly the truest statement I have ever read.

 

[Shaidalyn]

I might be a loser or something ... (prolly) but Aly's comment too my breath... not possible to have been said better.. Do you write? >.>