End Game Mindset. Why?

I should clarify I didn't join CK for the money. By this time, I had given up all but my hopes for a Nobles. Ironic that I now find out I don't even want a Nobles anymore XD.

Joining shells wasn't the point of this post. The drudgery that some people never leave the endgame - for even a little bit. I just want to know motivations and such.
 
Shaidalyn said:
I might be a loser or something ... (prolly) but Aly's comment too my breath... not possible to have been said better.. Do you write? >.>


Yes, Alyada writes. He is probably one of the most creative people I have ever known.



As far as the endgame scene goes, I for one can agree to an extent with what you are saying Arc. It is very easy to quickly become bored with various aspects of what is considered 'End Game'. In the long run though, as was quote, it is very easy to loose focus as to what exactly you hoped to gain out of said content in the first place. When you begin, absolutely every aspect of it is about doing new things, seeing new places, experiencing a method of team work that is quite unlike anything you had experienced yet. It seemed very exciting at first, and you know why? Because the innocence of curiosity was the blossoming of an a not so finite infinite willingness to be part of the bigger picture, solely for the fact that you got to witness that picture being made. I for one, am guilty of just that, and I will admit it openly. When I began what is considered 'End Game', it was with a linkshell that was getting back on its feet again. We overcame many obstacles to get to where the linkshell is now. The leader of the linkshell, wanted so bad to be greater than it had previously been. I was all about helping with that goal, and at the same time, wanted to see what was available to do and revel in the challenge of next. I remember when I gained access to Tu'Lia, I was so excited and so stoked that I simply got to see this new place that I was pure giddy when I logged on the game, and I believe anyone who was there with me in this linkshell could attest to that. When we started doing things to advance the shell, runs in sky, farming, other item runs for other people, etc etc, things were as exciting as they could ever be. If I could make it, I was there, just for the sole reason of helping others in the linkshell out. Blowey has an excellent point, and often times many people loose sight of that. End game is about bettering a group of people in the game as a whole, you go through one area, get everyone geared up, and move on to the next. As drab as some of it may have been on the way, it was always initially exciting. Although end game, for me, isn't so much about the items I obtain, I quickly fell into my own minds trap, and that was allowing myself to think that I could run things a bit better than they already were, and allowing myself to become frustrated to the point where I thought it would be best to try and prove that I could. My downfall, which I will openly admit as a mistake, was hurting a friend, or several, in the process. I became so wrapped up in my own ideals of how things should be organized that I forgot the initial reason I was there, and that was because the community was good to me as a whole. As frustrating as 'End Game' can be at times, it is very important to remember that you are not the only sole factor of it, you work with others as a team to get it done, and I don't just refer to Tu'Lia. I may be a very prideful person, but I did honestly fall into the same category that many do, albeit not for items, but I did leave something that I was having fun in, and had many friends in for a stupid reason. End Game, as I see it... well... perhaps there is no real "End Game".

Ultimately, it just comes down to what you have fun doing, and what you can help others have fun with as well. Sorry for my rabble-on.
 
Mistra said:
Yes, Alyada writes. He is probably one of the most creative people I have ever known.



As far as the endgame scene goes, I for one can agree to an extent with what you are saying Arc. It is very easy to quickly become bored with various aspects of what is considered 'End Game'. In the long run though, as was quote, it is very easy to loose focus as to what exactly you hoped to gain out of said content in the first place. When you begin, absolutely every aspect of it is about doing new things, seeing new places, experiencing a method of team work that is quite unlike anything you had experienced yet. It seemed very exciting at first, and you know why? Because the innocence of curiosity was the blossoming of an a not so finite infinite willingness to be part of the bigger picture, solely for the fact that you got to witness that picture being made. I for one, am guilty of just that, and I will admit it openly. When I began what is considered 'End Game', it was with a linkshell that was getting back on its feet again. We overcame many obstacles to get to where the linkshell is now. The leader of the linkshell, wanted so bad to be greater than it had previously been. I was all about helping with that goal, and at the same time, wanted to see what was available to do and revel in the challenge of next. I remember when I gained access to Tu'Lia, I was so excited and so stoked that I simply got to see this new place that I was pure giddy when I logged on the game, and I believe anyone who was there with me in this linkshell could attest to that. When we started doing things to advance the shell, runs in sky, farming, other item runs for other people, etc etc, things were as exciting as they could ever be. If I could make it, I was there, just for the sole reason of helping others in the linkshell out. Blowey has an excellent point, and often times many people loose sight of that. End game is about bettering a group of people in the game as a whole, you go through one area, get everyone geared up, and move on to the next. As drab as some of it may have been on the way, it was always initially exciting. Although end game, for me, isn't so much about the items I obtain, I quickly fell into my own minds trap, and that was allowing myself to think that I could run things a bit better than they already were, and allowing myself to become frustrated to the point where I thought it would be best to try and prove that I could. My downfall, which I will openly admit as a mistake, was hurting a friend, or several, in the process. I became so wrapped up in my own ideals of how things should be organized that I forgot the initial reason I was there, and that was because the community was good to me as a whole. As frustrating as 'End Game' can be at times, it is very important to remember that you are not the only sole factor of it, you work with others as a team to get it done, and I don't just refer to Tu'Lia. I may be a very prideful person, but I did honestly fall into the same category that many do, albeit not for items, but I did leave something that I was having fun in, and had many friends in for a stupid reason. End Game, as I see it... well... perhaps there is no real "End Game".

Ultimately, it just comes down to what you have fun doing, and what you can help others have fun with as well. Sorry for my rabble-on.

"Arylias is intimidated by Mistra's post.
Mistra's post hits Arylias for 856 points of damage.
Additional effect: 589 points of damage.
Arylias is defeated by Mistra's post."
 
/em is intimidated by Mistra's post.
The wall of text hits Arctyrael for 327 points of Damage.

*edit* lol, me and Ary were discussing this in ls - turns out I have higher defense than a PLD.

Mistra, your situation didn't place the fault soley on your shoulders either. So don't beat yourself up over it.
 
two words can explain this entire thread.

loot whores.
 
Alyada said:
Final Fantasy XI was an uphill struggle for me, literally. At every turn I was losing footing, toppling backwards, or just plain out of breath. Thankfully, there were people there to help me. Words of encouragement filled my ears, helping hands got me through Genkai, AF, missions, NM camping, you name it. Near the top I had to face the gatekeeper, Maat. He tossed me down a few times, but with the help of others I was able to beat him.

I reached the top I saw the crest of the hill lead out into open, grassy fields. Light from the sun warmed my body and rejuvinated me from my once slow, and terrible climb. Before me were ladders, each labled different things: HNM, Gods, Sea, Limbus... I saw people climbing them, trying to be the first to the top. I saw a lot of anger and strife because of the climb.

Then, suddenly, I turned my head and looked back down the hill. There I found many others, struggling as I had struggled, fighting as I had fought. With one last fleeting glimpse to the ladders, I began to slide back down the hill again. Those hands helping people to overcome their trails were my hands. This, my friends, is my "end-game."

Maybe it's just a different perspective.

I started the game knowing almost nothing about any of the jobs and there really was no endgame past Serket Roc and Simurgh. RDM seemed like a good job for someone to start with. You could do a bit of each type of magic, and you could hit stuff as well.

I had enough fun playing RDM that even past 30 when everyone else was trying out the advanced jobs (mostly DRG believe it or not :P ) that I kept playing RDM. Not because I had some ultimate goal of taking over the world, but just because I had fun playing the job.

Getting to 75 wasn't a chore (even though I level way slower than any of my friends), and it wasn't some kind of ultimate goal. It was just something that happened while I was having fun. And at that point I realised that even after over a year I was still having fun, still learning, and I wanted to keep playing the job.

Fighting HNMs was the way to keep playing the job. I'd get to fight the biggest monsters in the game, and I'd get to keep playing and developing the job I really liked. Gear wasn't really an issue... back then no NAs had the elite RDM gear. You couldn't even dream about getting Dalmatica's or Dualist's Chapeau's no NAs were in the Aery or even in Northlands Dynamis. The lure was simply the thrill of fighting bigger mobs than I'd ever seen before.

Time passes... I've been in an HNM Shell for nearly 18 months now. I've fought a lot of the big mobs in the game. I've got some of the best RDM gear in the game. And some of it at times isn't all that exciting. You do the boring stuff, though because it prepares you for the exciting stuff. Killing Tiamat for the first time, killing Vrtra anytime, killing Nidhogg with the whole alliance flailed, Winning the Airship battle and killing that damn Snoll in CoP. Not for the stuff it drops, but just for the achievement of killing it, and for the people that you kill it with.

The same things keep me playing now though that I enjoyed three years ago. I enjoy playing RDM. I enjoy taking on bigger and tougher monsters. And I like most of the people that I play with. I have no ultimate aim apart from to continue to enjoy all three... that's why I play

“Focus on the journey, not the destination. Joy is found not in finishing an activity but in doing it.”
- Greg Anderson
 
Blowy has some of the most level headed replies to this post. (Thanked him for that)

Some of these posts weren't in the direction I intended, but I blame that on my own ambiguities. Who else continues HNM because they enjoy it. Not because they feel a grind to get the best gear?
 
Arctyrael said:
Blowy has some of the most level headed replies to this post. (Thanked him for that)

Some of these posts weren't in the direction I intended, but I blame that on my own ambiguities. Who else continues HNM because they enjoy it. Not because they feel a grind to get the best gear?

Me.. I like to kill HNM's and kings and such for the title, for proof of the win. Gear is beneficial!
 
Mistra said:
I would suggest reading this thread in its entirety before commenting, especially that of the OP.

I'm answering the title. I read the whole post and it's a beating around the bush way of saying exactly what the title did.

edit: let me clarify.

People spend all of their time in end game because they want the best gear, the first. The fastest way possible. Therefore they spend all of their time getting said gear. My old sky LS revolutionaryESP comes to mind. We wanted to be the best, so we did sky almost every day. We burned out and it eventually lead to the breaking and reformation of the LS twice. The LS is still around though I am not a member, and they're pretty good (this LS is perseverance)

Loot whores, meaning, they would rather forsake all else and get the best gear rather than have fun. (suppose doing this is fun to them, not sure, probably not)
 
Last edited:
Blazeoffury said:
Me.. I like to kill HNM's and kings and such for the title, for proof of the win. Gear is beneficial!

Heh, I'm the same way. I am a title whore. I love killing shit just for the title.:biggrin:
 
Title's to me are much more imporatant then gil :D

Then again.. I wasn't really hurting for gil last time i was on Blazeoffury...
 
Lately I have been feeling similar burn out syndrome. I'll probably end up taking a break from it all soon. I've done everything there is to do in sky really, short of the final ZM fight and Divine Might for an earring that doesn't seem worth it now.

After spending I'd assume 150 hours minimum in sky since I got access in January, I've tanked all 4 baby gods pop to kill, kited Kirin for a good half hour without dying on my first try ever. I defeated all of the ark angels solo fights with the record set on all five.

The only thing left for me there is the grind to get my last two desired items, one of which I assume I'm relatively low on the list to get. That isn't due to my lack of want to go to sky or poor performance there, but real life shit gets in the way of attendence.

Sometimes you just can't show up to three or four days a week when you're holding up a job, full time school (college and don't give me shit that you people in HS have it "just as bad"), and having any semblance of a social life outside of the game.

You ask why people stay. I say it's the pressure by the shells they're in. I'm sure no shell will blatently yell at you for not showing up for a good reason, if so they're pretty pathetic. But at some point you realize that others are counting on you to perform.

These endgame shells are much like a sports team. Go ahead and laugh at the comparison but hear me out. There's schedules to follow. Practices (sky farming), scrimmages (gods day), and games (Kirin day). You are relied upon to be a part of all those by your teammates and your coach (leader of the shell). You can't win a football game without your quarterbacks, or stop the other team without your linesmen. The team depends on each person to do their job the way they do it best.

I used sky as the example, because it's the only one that I am extremely familiar with, but it works much the same for most other types of endgame.

The solution, don't join a team and make a commitment if you can't honor it. Which is why I will probably step down from endgame soon because if I can't be there 100%, I don't want to be the guy who shows up every third week and still expects to get rewarded.

I hope you can find the direction you seek and walk it. Many people get stuck doing what they think is expected of them, when they really need to look out for themselves sometimes. Being a 75 WHM will really help you speed along in your journies toward another job. Should you find that no other job is right for you, I'd suggest finding a new hobby. It's not worth investing so much time of your short life doing something you don't enjoy to the fullest.
 
I've been 75 for almost a month now. Went to about 5 Dynamis runs but haven't been to a Dynamis run for the last couple of weeks or so. Joined a HNM shell, unfortunately it turned into a social/event shell and everyone left. I got a pearl from my social shell for a HNM sky shell, but never made time to go on some farming trips, and they do Gods the night I have to wake up for work early the next morning.

Most of the time I'd rather do my own things. I feel I don't really need to waste time doing some of these end game stuff to push myself in having Uber gear, at least not yet. I go to any of these if I'm in the mood and to go for fun anyways. If I joined a shell that wants me there all the time no matter what, I won't be afraid to just leave it. I have work too 4 days during the wekk.

I do like to try a bit of everything though in the game, and getting extra gil, and new gear and such would be great, but all in all having fun and doing your own thing in the game, or helping others come first. Although along with your goals to get certain things and strive for a long while to get them rather than pressuring the time to get them, is fun to put that time in when you're in the mood and have fun.
 
the starting post is the main reason i shy away from engame stuff. it sucks the fun out of the game. people trade the things that make a game fun for status and items. thats not what i started playing FFXI for. lately i've thought of joining one as a means to keep my wallet from getting to empty but i still havent done it. cause i'd rather have fun playing the game without a huge bankroll then vice versa.
 
Zaltana said:
the starting post is the main reason i shy away from engame stuff. it sucks the fun out of the game. people trade the things that make a game fun for status and items. thats not what i started playing FFXI for. lately i've thought of joining one as a means to keep my wallet from getting to empty but i still havent done it. cause i'd rather have fun playing the game without a huge bankroll then vice versa.

Exactly. Contrary to popular belief, you do not have to be rich and running over with gil to enjoy FFXI.
 
...and also contrary to popular belief, HNM shells will almost always make you less money than you could make solo, with the same amount of time invested.
 
Hmmm. End game

I think a lot of what the op is saying about the repition is that things dont change with ls's and move on to bigger things. So many people are users and abusers in sky especially. They go and go and talk about how much they hate it and find reasons to not go then get there stuff and leave. This DRAAAGS ls's down. you cant advance if your members aren't ready, and your members cant get rdy if they keep leaving.

I've been doing sky for 7ish months now, i have personally recieved 1 item from sky. Not because i didn't go, there wasn't much up there to get for me and i wasn't up there for it. I do enjoy titles, more so on my young character passions then the "grown up" ones lol. I kill stupid monsters just for the title ill get.

anyways, people dont like that repitious grind just like you dont. sadly they grab there stuff and go on, leaving sky shells in sky, sea in sea, and hnm to hnm shells. Then leaders get tired of it and ls's disband and people move on. i enjoy killing big things with lots of people. Growing up as a lil taru from windy i always dreamed of big alliences going for things. Now i've aided in killing 2 wyrms and well lol attempting vyrta. This game is full of "fun spikes" imo. its got its down times things we dont like and its up times.

I wouldn't so much say i love just one job, i cant i cherish all my characters ;)

So the aspect of me playing one job and just going for big thing and bigger for that one job isn't enough. I like to explore the game, i've dipped into a lil bit of every aspect this game offers. now that i have sea ill probably chill with limbus for awhile solo till my other characters get sea and then see what i can do solo ;p

End game isn't for the casual player unfortionatly. I think its more for the hard core gamers that would of up and beat this game in 2days if it had a end. Most people in endgame that have the gear you drool over play an obscean amount of hours each week. i myself play nearly 80hrs. the

-50+ hours/week FFXI
-6 jobs level 75
-Kirin's Osode
-Noble's Tunic

amused me. i've got a nobles tunic, working on my osode, i'm 47k away from 4jobs lvl 75 and i play ~80hrs a week (well maybe less now that i go out more often) yet i'm still not dedicated 100% to endgame. I personally find a lot of joy in helping others with task that would require lots of help and doing it solo for them. i do the bcnm wild wild wiskers about 3-4 times a week for people because that belt makes there character BETTER.

I think my whole post is nearly off topic, moral of the story is. People get burned out with "end game" because they are looking at it the wrong way. Grinding sky to get out isn't going to work. your members will get sick of sky and just say syanara when they get there stuff. I actally like the little turn my sky shell took this week. Grannit we had a lot of sets but we've poped kirin every day this week. we've gone after that fun big kill stuff that everyone loves. next week we start farming again and resume normall rotation it was a EXCELLENT break and some nice osodes ;)

I'm actually really taking fond of my sky shell. Nice members that aren't entirely self-centerd (that i can tell after 4 sky shells of greedy pricks). Were getting it done, getting the gear, getting the newer sky members aquanted with how to do big kill fights, and having a lot of fun.

OH and Kezein are the only 2 end game shells that i can think of atm that have successfully made it through sky. There shell members generally have the sky items they desire and most have been in the shell since sky days. There members stuck it out and put in the work to make the shell better as a whole. God only knows how many Kirin's Kireek, JohnnyB, Deathchild, prophecy have fought and killed. granit they are the leaders of the shell in OH (i refered to oh because i was with them at the end of there sky journey when they were starting the move to sea). i hear they dont do sky anymore, and its because of members like them that showed dedication and commitment to there shell to move on. That is the only way endgame gets better, and it's what a lot of us live for is when we can move onto the next stage.

WHM's BLM's SMN's BARD's all seem to not "care" as much if they go or not to farming. there isn't much for them up there true, but that doesn't make there presence any less a nessecaty. Everyone is worried about themselves and not the others around them. Time scheduling isn't that big of an issue really. If you had the time to get the 75 you've got time to help with end game a lil bit and still lvl, craft, farm, ect. HNM's isn't the best way to make money either, unless you camp them like the gill sellers do.

And after all that,
um... If you dont enjoy playing your job, your not gonna have fun in endgame. i think blowy said, endgame is a time to keep playing the job you love which is why if your just a bandwagon bish you dont like sky ect because you dont wana be playing your job helping others to go after more fun stuff. I liked tauro's um... comparison (forgot word i'm thinking of) and sports. No one likes practice, but we all love the games. You gotta show up to practice to get on the starting line up, or in end games case get the gear. well what if theres no gear for you? The kicker may only touch the ball once but he's still a part of the team and goes to practice the get to the big game.

did any of this make sence lol? sorry i'm at work rambling.
holy crap i spent a hour writing this
 
Different people play the game for different reasons. There are a few aspects of the game that people tend to separate, as in you either have one or you have the other.

The first part is being the best that you can. I'm sure that no one picked up a copy of FFXI and said to themself "Boy, I can't wait to be incredibly average and not stand out in any way!" The way you get better is by getting better gear and, like it or not, for certain pieces of gear you're going to have to get the cooperation of countless other people. That is, join up in a linkshell designated exclusively to the different methods of obtaining rare pieces of gear (dynamis, sky, hnm, etc).

The second part of the game is the social interaction. Again, most people don't guy an online game going "I hate interacting with people so I'm gonna stick to myself for everything!" While having a certain degree of freedom to do things on your own is great, the ultimate goal of most online gamers is to make new friends and interact with people.

The tricky part is being able to find the right balance between the two. It is very much possible to be in "end-game" shells while still retaining old friendships and even making new ones. With larger shells, you're almost guaranteed to know at least some of the members and you'll meet new friends at the same time.

However, it's when you let "end-game" take over that you run into the problems. When you start to care more about yourself than your shellmates or your friends outside of the shell, focusing only on getting gear and using your shell to that end, that's when you've "lost" the game.

I'm in an end-game ls. I still keep tabs with my social ls (though sometimes not as often as I should). I still talk to members in tells while I'm doing my thing with the end-game ls. I make plenty of time to do other things in-game without logging in solely to attend ls functions. I cheer loudly when my shellmates get rare gear and pat them on their backs at their other accomplishments, just as they do when I get/do something new. It isn't hard as long as you remember that the other people in your shells are actual people and you treat them as such.

So make friends throughout your FFXI career. That's all there is to it really. Whether they are social friends, ls-mates in an end-game environment, or whatever else they may be. Enjoy your time with them and you can still do all of these things that make your character stand out and not just another lvl 75 with average gear. Just don't get lost and forget about what the game is all about, community.
 
Back
Top