Equal Rights

[Romper]

Zyn maybe you can't comprehend your own writing like Jyako, but when you make your first generalization

As far as I'm concerned, when you're out in the real world, you want to grow your shit to look like the Unabomber living up in some random log cabin, good for you...

What you say following concerning your first generalization is apart of that first generalization

FYI, when he was arrested, he was seriously unkempt. His hair was far from short. But whatever floats your boat. Way to miss the whole point though.

You said just for having long hair you look like the unabomber you went on to describe the unabomber's appearance at arrest of being unkempt. So you generalized that all guys that grow their hair out long look like a bomber and have messy uncombed hair. You generalized simple as that.

 

[Zephayra]

Not hiring based on having long hair IS discrimination because its not going on individual merit.

Just a quick question on this: Some people may see this as discrimination, but doesn't a company/business/whatever have the right to uphold an image? If the job requires you to be out and working with the public, you are a representation of the company are you not? Whether we like it or not, we are judged on our appearance, unless you are in a profession where its okay to dress however you like, which are few and in between.

 

[Zyndara]

Zyn maybe you can't comprehend your own writing like Jyako, but when you make your first generalization



What you say following concerning your first generalization is apart of that first generalization

You said just for having long hair you look like the unabomber you went on to describe the unabomber's appearance at arrest of being unkempt. So you generalized that all guys that grow their hair out long look like a bomber and have messy uncombed hair. You generalized simple as that.

You fail at reading comprehension, but whatever makes you happy.

 

[Romper]

Just a quick question on this: Some people may see this as discrimination, but doesn't a company/business/whatever have the right to uphold an image? If the job requires you to be out and working with the public, you are a representation of the company are you not? Whether we like it or not, we are judged on our appearance, unless you are in a profession where its okay to dress however you like, which are few and in between.

Yes it has the right to up hold an image, but that doesn't mean they still can't be taken to court. Everything is suppose to be a fair playing field right then what is to stop me from getting a job with long hair I mean girls have long hair and still get jobs. Honestly it's 100% possible to get a law suit filed as mundane as it sounds. Most people just don't realize the true definition of discrimination and only think of discrimination as applying to race or gender (which is discriminating anyways by it's own definition).

Chances are the case would never make court there would probably be some sort of settlement outside if someone were to go through with filing of paper work. The settlement would probably have a small monetary value along with setting up a test to see if the person is competent at the job. Of course this is just a prediction the case could go to court which means in a civil case you just have to get the jury, a judge would more than likely throw the case out even though if you think about the case it points out the flaws of the "level playing field", that you were discriminated against.

 

[Romper]

You fail at reading comprehension, but whatever makes you happy.

So that's your retort? That is weak I expected more from you when you got called out. I can admit that yes I will generalize, make really really really really sarcastic sexist and "racist" comments. Why can't you own up to what you are as well? You are far from Ms. Perfect as Jyako is far from Mr. Perfect when it comes to sweeping generalizations.

When you start to adjectivally describe what you generalized you are still generalizing how you're whooshing on my point is beyond me; maybe I over-estimated your level of intelligence. Lesson learned: Long winded posts do not equal intelligent input.

 

[Zephayra]

Everything is suppose to be a fair playing field right then what is to stop me from getting a job with long hair I mean girls have long hair and still get jobs.

Not trying to pick a fight, but nothing is fair in this world, which is why there isn't all round equality rights as discussed before.

Also women are under appearance judgment as well, not just men with long hair. One company hiring interns sent out a dress code requirement, which has also regulated the length of female hair; it cannot be passed the shoulder and they must have bangs that end above the eye line.

 

[Lukas]

I don't think you can lawfully sue someone for discriminating against your... grooming methods. That is to say, I don't believe it is covered under federal law.

 

[Romper]

Not trying to pick a fight, but nothing is fair in this world, which is why there isn't all round equality rights as discussed before.

Also women are under appearance judgment as well, not just men with long hair. One company hiring interns sent out a dress code requirement, which has also regulated the length of female hair; it cannot be passed the shoulder and they must have bangs that end above the eye line.

According to affirmative action it's suppose to be a level playing field for everything when it comes to hiring jobs and admitting people to jobs. Of course affirmative action is just a flailing contradiction to itself as either way it creates racism/sexism, but it's ok we're trying to right a past wrong so we can wrong someone else.

However if they do hire you as a long haired male or a short haired female they could probably force you to alter your appearance or fire you for not complying especially if it is in a contract. If it's a company policy then you could probably file with the BBB for wrongful firing unless you live in a state like Illinois where you don't have to be told why you're being fired. Even then if you have a good lawyer and are smart enough you could probably get a jury to believe you then receiver more money than in the case I was talking about before as you lost your income which means you could fall behind on bills etc while seeking another job.

 

[Zyndara]

So that's your retort? That is weak I expected more from you when you got called out. I can admit that yes I will generalize, make really really really really sarcastic sexist and "racist" comments. Why can't you own up to what you are as well? You are far from Ms. Perfect as Jyako is far from Mr. Perfect when it comes to sweeping generalizations.

When you start to adjectivally describe what you generalized you are still generalizing how you're whooshing on my point is beyond me; maybe I over-estimated your level of intelligence. Lesson learned: Long winded posts do not equal intelligent input.

Well let me simplify it since you are too thick to get it and you want to "call me out" on something you can't glean from reading it: Most employers and schools don't have a problem with long hair, they have a problem with people looking like slobs. The problem is not folks with long hair, the problem is folks that wear it greasy, in their face, or looking like it hasn't been groomed in a month... hence my comment about the Unabomber. If all folks with long hair took care of it, it wouldn't be an issue and it wouldn't be banned in these places. Not all folks do. AKA, dumbed down: if you want to look like a slob on your own time, do it. And no, that doesn't mean every person with long hair is a slob. I never said that nor should it have been implied from anything I posted.

 

[Romper]

I don't think you can lawfully sue someone for discriminating against your... grooming methods. That is to say, I don't believe it is covered under federal law.

Doesn't have to be a law in a civil case. Civil cases are meant to remedy. Discrimination is discrimination and as I said thinking discrimination only applies to gender and race is discrimination. Welcome to being a discriminator.

 

[Ravic]

There is no chance in hell of ever making a case against a company for firing you for having long hair, or for not hiring you because of it. The fact of the matter is, you work for them. They make the rules, you follow them. That's the long and short of it. If you don't like it, either quit or don't work for them, because there's no third choice.

As an example, where I work, I have to wear a white dress shirt (yes, white only), a tie, and dress pants. Not to mention the green vest, but thats beside the point. I'm not particularly a fan, but there are only 2 things I can do about it. Jack and shit, and Jack just skipped town. Sure, I could try to be an individual, fight for my freedom of expression, and all those other catchy phases the kids like to toss around, but personally, I like getting a paycheck.

But seriously, good luck with the discrimination suit. And when you're done being persecuted by the horrible status quo and its conformity, you can come down off the cross and join us in the real world.

 

[Excalibur]

I'm sorry, dizzy bitches? Why, because those women were tired of being good enough to fuck but not good enough to show any respect to?

No, because they wanted the best of both worlds. They wanted all the perks of being a man but none of the responsibility, thus, they were dizzy bitches.

Other than that little bit of bullshit, I think you've got some points. But like Hal said, I don't know where you're livin' but the people I know and see on a regular basis already do the things you're bitching about.

I don't know where YOU guys have been living. I lived in WI until I was 12 and then moved to CO where I've lived ever since, and I don't think I've ever seen any of the things I was talking about.

As far as I'm concerned, when you're out in the real world, you want to grow your shit to look like the Unabomber living up in some random log cabin, good for you.

Jesus and Santa had long hair...

But when you are going to a school, a job, etc, you play by their rules. It's the way the world works, and it's the way its always worked. Be happy you weren't living in the 50's when you had to wear a dress shirt and dress pants to school as a guy and were forced to wear a skirt as a chick.

Yes, but that doesn't mean we can't fight against the retarded rules and try to change them.
Oh, and for the better part of my childhood I went to a private school and did have to wear a dress shirt and dress pants, every day.

 

[Romper]

Well let me simplify it since you are too thick to get it and you want to "call me out" on something you can't glean from reading it: Most employers and schools don't have a problem with long hair, they have a problem with people looking like slobs. The problem is not folks with long hair, the problem is folks that wear it greasy, in their face, or looking like it hasn't been groomed in a month... hence my comment about the Unabomber. If all folks with long hair took care of it, it wouldn't be an issue and it wouldn't be banned in these places. Not all folks do. AKA, dumbed down: if you want to look like a slob on your own time, do it. And no, that doesn't mean every person with long hair is a slob. I never said that nor should it have been implied from anything I posted.

Ok you really want to try to get out of this with out admitting to what you did.

You IMPLIED that all long haired people look like the unabomber. Actually you didn't even imply it you down right said it. You said if you want to grow out your hair live in a log cabin and look like the unabomber by all means go ahead. You then went to go on to describe the appearance of the unabomber at the time of his arrest. You made a sweeping generalization that if you grow out your hair you must look like the unabomber. Now you're trying to pass it off because you don't want to look like a hypocrite. I wasn't even saying that everyone has great hygiene habits. It would be ignorant for me to even say that, but what you said was just idiocy and discriminatory.

You got called on it now, and now you're trying to save face. There I put it in the easiest dumbed down terms for you of what you did and are now trying to do.

 

[Zyndara]

Ok you really want to try to get out of this with out admitting to what you did.

You IMPLIED that all long haired people look like the unabomber. Actually you didn't even imply it you down right said it. You said if you want to grow out your hair live in a log cabin and look like the unabomber by all means go ahead. You then went to go on to describe the appearance of the unabomber at the time of his arrest. You made a sweeping generalization that if you grow out your hair you must look like the unabomber. Now you're trying to pass it off because you don't want to look like a hypocrite. I wasn't even saying that everyone has great hygiene habits. It would be ignorant for me to even say that, but what you said was just idiocy and discriminatory.

You got called on it now, and now you're trying to save face. There I put it in the easiest dumbed down terms for you of what you did and are now trying to do.

As far as I'm concerned, when you're out in the real world, you want to grow your shit to look like the Unabomber living up in some random log cabin, good for you. But when you are going to a school, a job, etc, you play by their rules. It's the way the world works, and it's the way its always worked.

I said If you want to grow your hair like the Unabomber in the real world, that's your prerogative. Nowhere did I say that all guys with long hair are the Unabomber or that all of them are unkempt.

I DIDN'T say it. In fact, I specifically said that not every person with long hair is the unabomber. Are you that dumb? I'm done with you. I'm not backing out of anything, you're just too much of an asshole to figure it out. Because you don't have the intelligence to read doesn't make me a hypocrite. It makes you look like more of an idiot than a lot of people aready think you are. Learn how to fucking read.

 

[Excalibur]

There is no chance in hell of ever making a case against a company for firing you for having long hair, or for not hiring you because of it. The fact of the matter is, you work for them. They make the rules, you follow them. That's the long and short of it. If you don't like it, either quit or don't work for them, because there's no third choice.

As an example, where I work, I have to wear a white dress shirt (yes, white only), a tie, and dress pants. Not to mention the green vest, but thats beside the point. I'm not particularly a fan, but there are only 2 things I can do about it. Jack and shit, and Jack just skipped town. Sure, I could try to be an individual, fight for my freedom of expression, and all those other catchy phases the kids like to toss around, but personally, I like getting a paycheck.

But seriously, good luck with the discrimination suit. And when you're done being persecuted by the horrible status quo and its conformity, you can come down off the cross and join us in the real world.

That's a very sad way of thinking. I'm sorry but I refuse to "just accept it". If everyone thought like you there would have been no civil rights movement, black people would still be segregated, women would still be underpaid. Fighting for change against unjust policy is one of the most important battles to fight imo.

EDIT: Sorry Zyn, but Romper is right. There's really nothing left that can be said to make you see it, but he is right, and you're just too blinded by your own fear of being wrong to see it.

 

[Romper]

There is no chance in hell of ever making a case against a company for firing you for having long hair, or for not hiring you because of it. The fact of the matter is, you work for them. They make the rules, you follow them. That's the long and short of it. If you don't like it, either quit or don't work for them, because there's no third choice.

As an example, where I work, I have to wear a white dress shirt (yes, white only), a tie, and dress pants. Not to mention the green vest, but thats beside the point. I'm not particularly a fan, but there are only 2 things I can do about it. Jack and shit, and Jack just skipped town. Sure, I could try to be an individual, fight for my freedom of expression, and all those other catchy phases the kids like to toss around, but personally, I like getting a paycheck.

But seriously, good luck with the discrimination suit. And when you're done being persecuted by the horrible status quo and its conformity, you can come down off the cross and join us in the real world.

Once again it's discrimination to think that discrimination only applies to race and gender. However wrongful firing and discrimination are two different things. If there was no stated company policy on hair length and you were fired while meeting or exceeding your goals in the work place it is possible they fired you with out notice of a policy change concerning appearance of male or females then you have grounds for wrongful firing as you weren't made aware of a change in policy that for all they know you could have been 100% willing to conform to. However if it is in a contract you sign and you don't comply to the contract then yes they can fire you. Then you are shit out of luck. Hell they can fire you with out a contract even if you know of the company policy and don't conform to it.

You're all stating cases where your jobs give you an appearance code. IF you don't comply they have every right to fire you. However if the above example is true then hello wrongful firing find yourself a lawyer as you can probably win the case as even saying something in a memo about alterations to company policy would be good enough that leaves the person the will if they wish to read it or not.

As I said in the settlement situation set up a test if the company hired a person that was less qualified and you don't get hired threaten discrimination based on race, gender, or appearance. If they refuse the test then you can also file discrimination based on race or gender alone saying the favored them because they're this race or this gender. Then they will probably settle outside of court to remedy the situation. It's not hard to start getting companies to shake in their boots.

 

[Zyndara]

EDIT: Sorry Zyn, but Romper is right. There's really nothing left that can be said to make you see it, but he is right, and you're just too blinded by your own fear of being wrong to see it.

Whatever. That's BS. I have long hair and people close to me have long hair. None of us are slobs about it. You are taking his side because he's attacking someone who disagrees with you. And I'm not afraid to be wrong. In fact I readily admit it when I am. I'm not wrong; I stand by what I said and if people like you and he want to see what you want to see, go ahead and believe whatever you want to.

 

[Romper]

I DIDN'T say it. In fact, I specifically said that not every person with long hair is the unabomber. Are you that dumb? I'm done with you. I'm not backing out of anything, you're just too much of an asshole to figure it out. Because you don't have the intelligence to read doesn't make me a hypocrite. It makes you look like more of an idiot than a lot of people aready think you are. Learn how to fucking read.

You is a general term that can be singular or plural. You (singular) did not mean you in the singular form. You (singular) were talking on a general level which is when you becomes plural.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=You&x=0&y=0

You (singular) then went to describe people with long hair looking as if they're the unabomber as in unkempt and poor hygiene habits. Even if you didn't mean it as a plural you don't know Excalbur's hygiene practices so he could be very well groomed for all you know. So you (singular) still made a generalization. When you got called on it you tried to save face, and now you're trying to run trying not to admit to what you are which is a hypocrite.

 

[Zyndara]

You is a general term that can be singular or plural. You (singular) did not mean you in the singular form. You (singular) were talking on a general level which is when you becomes plural.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=You&x=0&y=0

You (singular) then went to describe people with long hair looking as if they're the unabomber as in unkempt and poor hygiene habits. Even if you didn't mean it as a plural you don't know Excalbur's hygiene practices so he could be very well groomed for all you know. So you (singular) still made a generalization. When you got called on it you tried to save face, and now you're trying to run trying not to admit to what you are which is a hypocrite.

You're repeating the same backward shit over and over. You misread it and misquoted me to be a dick because you're making a lame attempt at trying to make me out to be a hypocrite. YOU means plural in the context I used it, and you damn well know it. I was not speaking to Excalibur specifically and I wasn't generalizing anyone. I'm not "trying to save face," as you're saying like a fucking parrot over and over. You're not "calling me" on shit, you're making it up as you're going along trying to make a point that isn't there. I'll say it one last time and then you can piss off for all I care: I stand by what I said, and if you think that somehow means I'm backpedaling than you are more of a moron than even I thought you were, and that's saying something.

 

[Excalibur]

You are taking his side because he's attacking someone who disagrees with you.

Actually I was under the impression you did agree with me...

Other than that little bit of bullshit, I think you've got some points.

I'm taking his side because he's right.