Equal Rights

[Zyndara]

Actually I was under the impression you did agree with me... I'm taking his side because he's right.

I don't agree that women who were sick of being treated like shit are "dizzy bitches." I do agree that what you do or how you look when you aren't in a private or publicly funded institution is your business and tough shit if no one likes it. So, once again, no, he's not right. And I'm not going to bother saying it again.

 

[Makelith]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=discrimination&x=0&y=0

Learn to know definitions. Not hiring based on having long hair IS discrimination because its not going on individual merit. Try not to fail harder next time Make.

I know what discrimination is, but you seem to not realize something about the working world. You play by their rules. Like i said, take it to court if it happens to you and you will be laughed all the way out. Bring up dictionary definitions all you want, but thats not the way it works in the real world. If you think it is, then you are on your way to a pretty hard lesson learned.

Try to fail less next time Romper.

P.S. Come to MN sometime so we can get some good steakhouse food!

 

[Lukas]

Okay I seriously think that placing the feminist movement or the fight against racial segregation on the same level as the trials and tribulations associated with hair length in the work place, is slightly unreasonable. In fact it's a piss poor comparison.

 

[Elemmire]

hehe, Equality is a dream if we were to have true equality I think our government would have to be very inhumane.. and I don't think people are settling for that.. but hey, look on the bright side, things have been improving over the umm.. centuries

 

[Excalibur]

Okay I seriously think that placing the feminist movement or the fight against racial segregation on the same level as the trials and tribulations associated with hair length in the work place, is slightly unreasonable. In fact it's a piss poor comparison.

Well of course they aren't on the same level of importance, it's the principal behind it that I'm trying to get at.

 

[Dayner]

you guys should come to Saudi then ;p

 

[Halifirien]

Doesn't have to be a law in a civil case. Civil cases are meant to remedy. Discrimination is discrimination and as I said thinking discrimination only applies to gender and race is discrimination. Welcome to being a discriminator.

The possible words you're looking for are "incorrect" or "wrong" or "insulting." The way you're using it in that sentence isn't right, and you're confusing your argument.

Having said that, businesses discriminate all the time. There is no truly level playing field in hiring, firing or advancement. The difference is that some versions of discrimination are illegal and others aren't. Hair length is not one of them. It may be silly and you may not like it, but you can't fault people for pointing out ad nauseum in this thread that it's a legally acceptable practice.

 

[Ravic]

That's a very sad way of thinking. I'm sorry but I refuse to "just accept it". If everyone thought like you there would have been no civil rights movement, black people would still be segregated, women would still be underpaid. Fighting for change against unjust policy is one of the most important battles to fight imo.

Dude, it's hair length. When they start making separate bathrooms for people with long hair and making them sit in the back of the shuttle from the parking lot, then you can fight the good fight. Until then, you need to realize the real world isn't like high school. You can't raise a stink over every little thing because unless it's something that is actually important, no one cares.

Once again it's discrimination to think that discrimination only applies to race and gender. However wrongful firing and discrimination are two different things. If there was no stated company policy on hair length and you were fired while meeting or exceeding your goals in the work place it is possible they fired you with out notice of a policy change concerning appearance of male or females then you have grounds for wrongful firing as you weren't made aware of a change in policy that for all they know you could have been 100% willing to conform to. However if it is in a contract you sign and you don't comply to the contract then yes they can fire you. Then you are shit out of luck. Hell they can fire you with out a contract even if you know of the company policy and don't conform to it.

You're all stating cases where your jobs give you an appearance code. IF you don't comply they have every right to fire you. However if the above example is true then hello wrongful firing find yourself a lawyer as you can probably win the case as even saying something in a memo about alterations to company policy would be good enough that leaves the person the will if they wish to read it or not.

As I said in the settlement situation set up a test if the company hired a person that was less qualified and you don't get hired threaten discrimination based on race, gender, or appearance. If they refuse the test then you can also file discrimination based on race or gender alone saying the favored them because they're this race or this gender. Then they will probably settle outside of court to remedy the situation. It's not hard to start getting companies to shake in their boots.

Once again, there's no court in the world that would hear the case, and most definitely no company that would even think to settle. You would be thrown out of the courthouse, then counter sued for court costs and for filing a frivolous lawsuit. Claim discrimination all you want, but all you've got is the definition from a dictionary. In the real world, you would have to make the most desperate stretch to get it to play in court, which it wouldn't. Because honesty, by your standard, the high school dropout could sue because the PhD was chosen instead of him.

 

[Halifirien]

"We caught this hippie trying to drink from our water fountain, sir. Should I sic the dogs on him?"

 

[Morwen]

"And the sign said, 'Long-hair freaky people, need not apply'"

By applying to a job, you are at that point opening yourself up to their rules, as you're in their house. I have seen, having worked in a corporate situation, that after a week of employment a long-haired gentleman that was very excited about his job (always keeping a nice groomed ponytail and wearing dress-casual clothing as required) be taken into the office and requested that he get a haircut. Not all of it, thats asking a lot, but at least some. Shoulder-lenght from his waist-length. In the same shake, I've seen a woman asked to cut her nails down to a more office-acceptable length instead of the 8" of talon she had hanging from her fingers. Also, I've fired a guy who refused to wear his hair back in a ponytail. He said that he should be allowed to wear his hair free and flowing, he agreed to wear a hat, but certainly not tie back his hair. We worked at a pizza place. With food. Food and flowing hair. Sicknastygtfo.

I will 100% agree with you that its crap that people don't get hired for hair-length. It's also bullshit that they don't get hired, or are removed from their position, because of hair color. Take out your favorite pink hilighter. That was the color of my head for a good long while. People would not take me seriously in a business situation, simply because of that. Stereotypes would have you believe that guys with long hair are lazy, pot smoking hippies and kids in their early 20s with hot pink hair are all ravers and drug addicts. These stereotypes are mainly false, however try explaining that to the CEO who's been doing this for years, was drafted in the 60's while his younger, long haired hippy brother called him a murderer. There are way too many things in the works to be able to just right away think we can be accepted as who we are. It's happening, slowly but surely, people are realizing that just because you have long hair, or like to dye your hair colors that are often found only in plants or you happen to have an eyebrow piercing, that doesn't mean you're incapable of doing the same job (or better than) anyone else that would be deemed 'socially acceptable in appearance'.


Excalibur. Stop going after stupid bitches that don't have a job if you want someone to buy you dinner.

 

[Lanien]

Excalibur. Stop going after stupid bitches that don't have a job if you want someone to buy you dinner.

But stupid bitches put out...

 

[Morwen]

But stupid bitches put out...

Yes but stupid bitches put out, stupidly, to equally stupid people. God only knows that kind of door prizes you might get, and I'm not talking a bottle of wine.

 

[Lanien]

Yes but stupid bitches put out, stupidly, to equally stupid people. God only knows that kind of door prizes you might get, and I'm not talking a bottle of wine.

Don't be mad, get glad.

 

[Romper]

I know what discrimination is, but you seem to not realize something about the working world. You play by their rules. Like i said, take it to court if it happens to you and you will be laughed all the way out. Bring up dictionary definitions all you want, but thats not the way it works in the real world. If you think it is, then you are on your way to a pretty hard lesson learned.

Try to fail less next time Romper.

P.S. Come to MN sometime so we can get some good steakhouse food!

All you need is a good lawyer and be smart about how you go about filing it. Honestly it's really not hard to get discrimination thrown around. Hell Midwest Generation caved into my dad because he had his union as well as the BBB, I know it's not the BBB for employee problems with companies I still can't remember what it is, to start investigating if he was discriminated against just for knowing the contract as well as being a "trouble maker" for reporting multiple problems at the plants he worked at to try to bring the safety levels up as the company has had numerous deaths at the plants from faulty equipment. The company folded let him decide where to go even though he didn't get the promotion he was driving 70-75 miles a day so being closer to home saves him on gas so not getting a raise was like getting a raise by reducing drive time. You don't have to be discriminated based on race.

 

[Excalibur]

I think you've all lost sight on what this thread was about. I'm not pissed cause someone won't hire a guy if he has long hair, I'm pissed that they won't hire a guy with long hair but girls having long hair is perfectly acceptable, and at the same time everyone is screaming "equality!", but no one is truly putting it into practice.

Dude, it's hair length. When they start making separate bathrooms for people with long hair and making them sit in the back of the shuttle from the parking lot, then you can fight the good fight. Until then, you need to realize the real world isn't like high school. You can't raise a stink over every little thing because unless it's something that is actually important, no one cares.

When you can't get a job for over a year, when you're not able to make a living because of it, yes, it's a big fucking problem.

 

[Romper]

Okay I seriously think that placing the feminist movement or the fight against racial segregation on the same level as the trials and tribulations associated with hair length in the work place, is slightly unreasonable. In fact it's a piss poor comparison.

Thinking discrimination only applies to gender and race is discrimination. Seriously dictionary.com is just a tab away. You don't even have to do it based on appearance, but if you wanted to you could file suit for discrimination based on appearance.

 

[Makelith]

You don't have to be discriminated based on race.

That's very true, and i have never said otherwise. If what you say is true then your dad was being pretty heavily attacked by the company. That goes a bit beyond discrimination, because the company was actually doing things to him, because he was trying to make changes that could cost them an awful lot of money. If your dad did sue them he most certainly would have won.

What i am saying though is that you will get laughed out of a court if you ever try to play discrimination on hair length, because there is just simply no merit in it.

 

[Romper]

The possible words you're looking for are "incorrect" or "wrong" or "insulting." The way you're using it in that sentence isn't right, and you're confusing your argument.

Having said that, businesses discriminate all the time. There is no truly level playing field in hiring, firing or advancement. The difference is that some versions of discrimination are illegal and others aren't. Hair length is not one of them. It may be silly and you may not like it, but you can't fault people for pointing out ad nauseum in this thread that it's a legally acceptable practice.

Affirmative action established a level playing field for everything race, gender, appearance, and sexual orientation is throw out the window. You're suppose to be hired on merit not the listed above. However it says Affirmative Action also states its ok to right a wrong from the past to make a better future. Affirmative Action is an ass backwards double standard. Every form of discrimination is suable.

 

[Romper]

That's very true, and i have never said otherwise. If what you say is true then your dad was being pretty heavily attacked by the company. That goes a bit beyond discrimination, because the company was actually doing things to him, because he was trying to make changes that could cost them an awful lot of money. If your dad did sue them he most certainly would have won.

What i am saying though is that you will get laughed out of a court if you ever try to play discrimination on hair length, because there is just simply no merit in it.

It is true because their lawyer said at the meeting between my dad's lawyer and the company's lawyer said well discrimination didn't exactly happen, but it probably did so if they take you to court you'd more than likely lose. There were other stipulations brought up, but they were shaking in fear of discrimination specifically. He wasn't heavily attacked he just wasn't given a job based on merit because of his track record for reporting safety problems. Which ironically if they'd spend the money for repairing safety problems they wouldn't have had to shell out, in some of the death cases millions, thousands of dollars to families as well as retirement funding and health insurance to the families.

So you're saying an androgynous (someone that has appearance traits of both genders) person can't sue in court for discrimination if they can prove that they were discriminated against based on appearance?

 

[Makelith]

"Affirmative action was designed by the white man to keep minorities and women in competition with each other to distract us while white dudes inject aids in to our chicken nuggets!"
-30 Rock Pilot