Fffffuuucccccc****** Mmmmmeeeee BANNED -.-

[Skaw]

True. If anything, I think it was more of a screen space issue for PS2, left out for being nearly unnecessary.
TP, on the other hand: nuh-uh. I can pretty much guarantee other player's TP isn't visible to promote teamwork.

What teamwork? It's not like theres strategy involved typing <tp>.

This is a rather extremist viewpoint, and just because you're presenting it in this manner doesn't make it reasonable, nor does it mean I do or have to agree with it. It presents a standpoint that it is entirely impossible to share one's TP or MP with another person.

Following guides, strategies, and using maps outside of the game that you don't have in game are more detrimental to the grand design of the game than being able to see another players TP. Really, when theres a command in the game that can be used at any given time to display TP, whats the harm in seeing it? Theres no edge. Theres no gameplay change. Theres no limitation being avoided. If you could only tell your party your TP once every set amount of time, yes, then it's something that would change gameplay that would give players an advantage. But theres no limiter. TP is freely displayable without TParty. It doesn't do anything gamebreaking.

If you're really deep in to your own convictions to where you see not having to type 4 characters in to display your TP as a gamebreaking issue, it would be hypocritcal of you to use a printed out map of an area that you don't have the map of ingame. Or using a crafting guide to figure out level caps instead of grinding away at a recipe endlessly until you just figure it's capped and move on. Or a solution to a quest/mission.

 

[pakomen]

Last I checked, it wasn't against ToS to surf the web for information.

I can't really bitch about the tp plugin. I don't care for any 3rd party software. Especially the one's that actually GIVE a player an edge. And I downright hate those... So, I have a general dislike for any 3rd party software. If it's against ToS it's against ToS. If you want something put into the game, approach SE. Good luck though, they have a tendency to ignore their playerbase.

But you can't blame research. That's just naive. That's like having to write a report on jet propulsion or brain surgery, only you're not allowed to read any of the past research. You have to actually build the engine yourself... No fucking way.

 

[Skaw]

Maps provide NM and Elemental spawn areas, coffer and chest spawns, and the layout of the area without having the in game map. How is that not a problem, but being able to see someones TP without them having to type <tp> every hit is the devils work? No, really. What takes more guess work out of the game? The printed maps.

 

[pakomen]

I never said the tp hack was the devil's work. And I don't preach down at people for using the tp-plugin. I just don't like it. But how hard is this:

/p My tp: <tp>

I mean shit, what is the benefit of the tp plugin at all if all a person has to do is type /p My tp: <tp>? What's the purpose? Convenience? Exactly. Convenience that wasn't built into the game.

I'm not going to argue this point any further. It's convenience that wasn't built into the game.

Research is something all-together different. You can argue that research is more harmful to the server, but it's a weak arguement in my opinion. A person in school/college/life who does his research is going to do better overall than a person who doesn't. That's real world right there. That's how it actually works in life. It's not detrimental to the server. He wasn't given anything on a silver plate. He needed/wanted info and he went out and found it. And he did it without breaking the almighty ToS.

 

[Skaw]

So, it's convenience. And maps are? I'm seriously wondering what the fucks the difference, other than arbitrary terms like "good" and "bad."

You're not meant to know someones TP all the time. You're not meant to have a map without buying/questing/treasure chesting, much less maps that give you detailed spawn areas. Thats not research. Research is looking up a crafting recipe, or hunting down items on merchants to save gil over the auction house.

Any good player can estimate their skillchain partners TP, too. Is that an unfair advantage?

 

[pakomen]

That is research >.> That's exactly what research is...

The map point, I'll give you you. I think it is semi-lame to have to go to ffxi-atlas.com to find your way around something. But it's still not against ToS. And it's almost a given that everybody on the game has done it at least once. It's not right or wrong. It's lame, at best. But it's definitely not against the rules.

Now, finding the spawn location and requirements for a NM IS ACTUALLY research. It's getting information based off another person's experience. Hell, people use qcdn for research all the time. Zomg where is that warhorse hoofprint today!

And as an add-in, I quest my maps. I buy my maps. Hell, I got my maps before I got my walahra turban... I don't even have ffxi-atlas bookmarked. I know it exists because I have used it in the past (aka when the expansion first came out), but I make it a point that if I want to be in an area semi-often, I will go out of my way to do whatever it is I need to do to get a map. If you're just using ffxi-atlas all the time, you are goddamn lazy and should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Skaw]

And anyone with half a brain can ask their partner how much TP they get for each hit, and add it up in their head.

Like I said, theres no difference. Both enable a convenience impossible in the game, yet both methods are still quite doable without them. If you still think TParty does something game breaking, then maybe you shouldn't be hanging out with players who can't do basic counting and addition.

 

[pakomen]

You seriously sit there and count how many times your partner lands a hit? I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't party much. And when I'm in an alliance I'm generally a blm...

Maybe it's the bst in me, but I don't... I append a <tp> tag in my fight macro anytime I duo...

But I do think I know the basic feel you're getting at. I can pretty much figure out my pet's tp without even using <pettp>... It's a little timer that goes off in my head saying "his tp should be about ready by now.."

Not that bst really benefits from knowing his pet's tp at all. With <sic> and all.

 

[Skaw]

Oh, I'm not saying I do. I'm stating a method that does the exact. same. thing. TParty does, thats well within the confines of the games boundaries.

Still think TParty is harmful to the system? I've clearly given a method that will provide equal results, thats easy to do.

Heres another method thats a bit more complex for people who don't know how to count, but easier for those that do. 100/X=Y. X being TP gained per hit, Y being how many hits until they get 100%.

No communication needed between partners besides the TP they gain on every strike. The only thing you need to do is count down how many times you see your partner damage the mob in the chat log. Hell, if you're not doing anything technical like SATA, the only person that really even needs to keep track is the person starting the chain.

 

[pakomen]

I agree, it's easy. Simple math and you can figure out your partner's tp. Or even asking for a tp macro.

But in that case, then why even bother downloading tparty? That's what agitates me about this arguement. If it's so easy to figure out someone's tp, then why does anyone even NEED tparty?

And AGAIN, I didn't say tparty was harmful to the system. I said it was against ToS. Or were you targetting the other guy?

 

[Skaw]

The question was aimed to Garvin, who thinks it's the antichrist for some reason.

 

[pakomen]

Still think TParty is harmful to the system? I've clearly given a method that will provide equal results, thats easy to do.

Which makes me wonder which side you're arguing for.

Equal results without having to download a hack. Now that's what I'm talking about!

 

[pakomen]

The question was aimed to Garvin, who things it's the antichrist for some reason.

Well you're a fairly high level bst. You're obviously a little crazy by now. But by no means the anti-christ.

Sorry, long day.

 

[Skaw]

I was talking about the severity of TParty's impact on the game, not me..

If we're not meant to know TP Values, why give us a bar and a percentage? If it's such a problem, just have the bar seemingly fill up randomly like limit breaks from FF7, and just have a microwave ding when you've reached 100%. It was too easy to dissect a TP count in the first place, thats what makes TParty harmless.

 

[pakomen]

I need to go get some freakin glasses...

On that note, I'm out. Enjoy the arguement guys. TGIFF.

 

[Firestreak]

I think you really would have to look at TP Party as more of a bot than anything else - the basis being that it functions a replicatable (sort of) function that the player could perform themself. It's a little different in that it pulls out data instead of gives out but 2 melee DDs with TP party nonverbally communicating has the identical effect as if they both had bots calling their TP for them whenever it changed.

The point being it's modifying the client to do something to cut down on intended work As in you don't think you should have to call TP, why do you think you should have to manually fish?

 

[Garvin]

I think you really would have to look at TP Party as more of a bot than anything else - the basis being that it functions a replicatable (sort of) function that the player could perform themself. It's a little different in that it pulls out data instead of gives out but 2 melee DDs with TP party nonverbally communicating has the identical effect as if they both had bots calling their TP for them whenever it changed.

The point being it's modifying the client to do something to cut down on intended work As in you don't think you should have to call TP, why do you think you should have to manually fish?

I can't believe I'm saying this, but... uh...
QFT :shok:

 

[Bajaratt]

I think you really would have to look at TP Party as more of a bot than anything else - the basis being that it functions a replicatable (sort of) function that the player could perform themself. It's a little different in that it pulls out data instead of gives out but 2 melee DDs with TP party nonverbally communicating has the identical effect as if they both had bots calling their TP for them whenever it changed.

The point being it's modifying the client to do something to cut down on intended work As in you don't think you should have to call TP, why do you think you should have to manually fish?

I don't have a problem with calling out my TP, in fact I usually do announce it when I'm involved in a skillchain even with TPpatry active(so the rest of the party can know and hey the blm might want to know when to get off his ass and MB). The main reason why I use TPparty, however, is because of the all the retards who never tell ME their TP. I can sit there spamming my TP ammount or repeatidly ask them for their TP but they say nothing.

With non-stupid people TPparty isn't hugely useful.

 

[Firestreak]

I don't have a problem with calling out my TP, in fact I usually do announce it when I'm involved in a skillchain even with TPpatry active(so the rest of the party can know and hey the blm might want to know when to get off his ass and MB). The main reason why I use TPparty, however, is because of the all the retards who never tell ME their TP. I can sit there spamming my TP ammount or repeatidly ask them for their TP but they say nothing.

With non-stupid people TPparty isn't hugely useful.

Well like I said, it's like a bot but the opposite of a bot. Instead of doing the work for you, it does the work for your partner.

Now I have no problem with people using it but then at least recognize what it's equivalent to while you're using it and criticizing others for botting.

 

[Bajaratt]

I recognize that it gives me an advantage over other players(even if it's just to correct their flaws), that much is obvious; but it's no where near as bad as using a claim-bot or flee hacking. Saying they're equivalent is like saying murder is just as bad as shoplifting; it's stupid.