Fffffuuucccccc****** Mmmmmeeeee BANNED -.-

I believe I’m a veteran and am proud of doing things the hard way, taking the long road, and learning things from top to bottom.

I may bitch when others who become veterans like me take the "easy road", or get a free ride off the backs of others.

But that does not give you the right to judge me if I take the easy road, even after I've bitched and moaned about others doing the same.

I'm always an Angel in my own eyes, even though they are closed most of the time.
 
* regardless of what job you play, even "sitting in the back as a blm", you will notice people flee hacking. give me a break. especially in kited fights, its not like you are so far out of range you can't see people moving... everyone in OH knew what was going on... and give me a break, dynamis, sky, HNMs, everyone knew what was going on... stop pretending to play innocent and turn it into an argument of "omg you use gta codes on offline games, YOU ARENT ANY BETTER&!@#"

* tolerating people cheating and not repremanding them is just as bad as doing it yourself. you say it doesnt benefit you directly, how about saved time? easier fight? that definitely benefits you directly. what if you finish a fight early, go out, and kill a NM or HNM that was up that you wouldnt have gotten to before hand? its the same as "flee hacking doesnt hurt anyone if no one is around".. well what if you beat the next poor joeblow that was going to find the NM, but you flee hacked around the zone and saw it first?

* OH will always be remembered as the lolfleehack LS, the once "on the rise" LS that went on the downhill spiral with scandals galore.
 
Now you're just being ridiculous.

If tolerating cheating is the same as cheating, then tolerating people who tolerate cheating is the same as cheating, and then tolerating those people is the same as cheating. There are distinctions between doing it and not judging people for doing it. If a place removed from it is no different than it itself, you're just as guilty as me through mere links.

Or are you going to come in and make a complex set of rules to justify yourself just as people make complex sets of rules to justify using the cheats they like and to scorn the people who use the cheats they don't like?
 
Firestreak said:
Now you're just being ridiculous.

If tolerating cheating is the same as cheating, then tolerating people who tolerate cheating is the same as cheating, and then tolerating those people is the same as cheating. There are distinctions between doing it and not judging people for doing it. If a place removed from it is no different than it itself, you're just as guilty as me through mere links.
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you're stretching really hard now. you were in OH. not me.
 
Naw not a stretch. You weren't in OH, but none of your LS members were? If I'm a cheater by being LS members with cheaters than anyone who was LS members with any cheaters are then cheaters too no? And then anyone who's LS members with them now are cheaters as well too? It's a contageous virus apparently, not a choice, I see. If I'm a cheater by LS membership then so's anyone who was LS members with this OP, or with anyone else who admitted cheating or anyone else caught... and I'm sure you're not LS members with anyone of those people right?

I know different, but I'll let you do your own research on this.
 
Firestreak said:
There are distinctions between doing it and not judging people for doing it. If a place removed from it is no different than it itself, you're just as guilty as me through mere links.
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There is a pretty big difference in my mind.

If person X uses fleehacks, in w/e linkshell, and person Y benefits directly from the hacks of person X, person Y is no better then person X. But person Z has no affiliation to the random linkshell other then through person Y, and doesn't benifit from it at all. That person then is not as incredibly lame as person Y.

Then by what you said, (lets throw one more letter out there) person A who is friends with person Z, and lets just say bought the game yesterday, so person A doesn't even know flee hacks exist. Even though hes only been in the game one day hes already been branded a cheater by your logic. Sorry, but huge difference to me.
 
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By your defenition of cheating, that by tolerating cheating (meaning, you don't mind others doing it), makes you a cheater, then you are all RMT's.

Yes, you heard me. You are all RMT's. You all buy gil. Why? Because, odds are, that one of your friends have bought gil at one point or another. You might not know about it, but you're still their friend. And that apparently makes you a RMT.

Either way, from reading this thread, it sounds like you all have Allodoxaphobia.
 
Makelith said:
There is a pretty big difference in my mind.

If person X uses fleehacks, in w/e linkshell, and person Y benefits directly from the hacks of person X, person Y is no better then person X. But person Z has no affiliation to the random linkshell other then through person Y, and doesn't benifit from it at all. That person then is not as incredibly lame as person Y.

Then by what you said, (lets throw one more letter out there) person A who is friends with person Z, and lets just say bought the game yesterday so person A doesn't even know flee hacks exist. Even thought hes already been in the game one day hes already branded a cheater by your logic. Sorry, but huge difference to me.
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That qualifies a difference between doing it and tolerating it. If you want to make the case that tolerating is bad but different than doing it you could make the argument that people who tolerate those who tolerated are at no fault. If you want to make the case that it's the same, and I am a cheater simply cause I didn't care, then you are saying anyone who ever becomes shellmates with me are cheaters because if I'm the same as the cheater then I have the ability to pass the stigma on just as the cheater does.

Hence I harped on Neo saying that I'm no different than the cheater as being ridiculous because that's where the logic leads us. You can make a case that I'm "something" but remember how vastly that something stretches. Remember how many people have been found of cheating and how many LSes could be implicated as such and then all of their members which would be in the same boat as me.
 
What LS was Godpoing in anyway? Because I have to remember to lable his whole linkshell as cheaters.
 
I think the hardest part for people to swollow is the fact that you were a Leader of OH. OH used cheats for fights they could not win... to learn how to win? For some its more respectful to learn how to win by losing. As a leader it would be assumed that you were a direct influence on how things were run so your level of tollerence becomes more of an enabler for cheaters.

I'm not going to go as far as to say that all of OH was unskilled. That would be a far cry from truth as I've met some very talented players. On the other side of the coin you have some if not many crippled members who couldn't win without a cheat. Be it as it may you have some players who could not play without the options of Windower who were never of OH.

I guess the last question to ask yourself when you log off is if you had fun. Be it via cheating or playing the game as it was intended to be played. Neither of you will agree on what is right and what is wrong.
 
Uzor said:
What LS was Godpoing in anyway? Because I have to remember to lable his whole linkshell as cheaters.
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Purpose. However, in light of labels.. I can attest to having never visually seen a member of Purpose, while within purpose, cheat. Unbiased Fact.
 
Sandria said:
I think the hardest part for people to swollow is the fact that you were a Leader of OH. OH used cheats for fights they could not win... to learn how to win? For some its more respectful to learn how to win by losing. As a leader it would be assumed that you were a direct influence on how things were run so your level of tollerence becomes more of an enabler for cheaters.

I'm not going to go as far as to say that all of OH was unskilled. That would be a far cry from truth as I've met some very talented players. On the other side of the coin you have some if not many crippled members who couldn't win without a cheat. Be it as it may you have some players who could not play without the options of Windower who were never of OH.

I guess the last question to ask yourself when you log off is if you had fun. Be it via cheating or playing the game as it was intended to be played. Neither of you will agree on what is right and what is wrong.
Click to expand...

So I think the question would be then - did I Firestreak have direct involvement as to the encouragement of cheating, spread of cheat programs, creation of strategies designed with cheats in mind or in some way have the ability to remove members that were guilty?

I'll simply say I never kicked a member of OH, don't think I had that power vested to me. All I ever did was for a short time run the sky points and for that short time in my opinion we had our smoothest gil split distribution but real life took too much time to do that quickly. I had a sack, as did just about anyone who was in the shell for over 6 or 7 months.
 
Just tell me one thing Godpoing.. remember me camping VE all those times and you were getting claims left and right... at the time did you use this tool?
If so your a Dick! still i hate to see you g you seem like a nice guy. but you a Dick for cheating... take care
 
Sandria said:
Purpose. However, in light of labels.. I can attest to having never visually seen a member of Purpose, while within purpose, cheat. Unbiased Fact.
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Since people apparently lable all of OH as cheaters because some people did cheat, would it not be fair to lable all of Purpose as cheaters, too?

So its a deal then. All of Purpose are cheaters. Such assholes. Purpose ruins the game.
 
Uzor said:
Since people apparently lable all of OH as cheaters because some people did cheat, would it not be fair to lable all of Purpose as cheaters, too?

So its a deal then. All of Purpose are cheaters. Such assholes. Purpose ruins the game.
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their linkshell holder didn't cheat. and their leaders and members are saying they haven't seen them use it..

whereas everyone that was in OH will defend/argue to the death of the world that theres nothing wrong... all while they were seen doing it in video during major fights and also have major testiments from previous members about how wide spread it was used and not frowned upon.
 
neophytal said:
their linkshell holder didn't cheat. and their leaders and members are saying they haven't seen them use it..

whereas everyone that was in OH will defend/argue to the death of the world that theres nothing wrong... all while they were seen doing it in video during major fights and also have major testiments from previous members about how wide spread it was used and not frowned upon.
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So because the minority of the linkshell (not widespread, I don't see how 3 people are "widespread" did cheat, that makes everyone a cheater. k. All while you argue that everyone is a cheater because they benefit from it.

But when Godpoing cheat (and god know who else that doesn't admit to doing it in Purpose), everyone is not a cheater. So basically, its the "OH-onry" thing once again. You already argued that if one person cheat, that makes everone a cheater. How is this any different?
 
Uzor said:
So because the minority of the linkshell (not widespread, I don't see how 3 people are "widespread" did cheat, that makes everyone a cheater. k. All while you argue that everyone is a cheater because they benefit from it.

But when Godpoing cheat (and god know who else that doesn't admit to doing it in Purpose), everyone is not a cheater. So basically, its the "OH-onry" thing once again. You already argued that if one person cheat, that makes everone a cheater. How is this any different?
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you say 3 people, but one of them was your linkshell leader. leader. did you hear the word? leader. that means that the person you all GO to, and listen to, was a main culprit.

you guys did somewhat major fights... just like you said, "god knows who else did it"... 3 people, im betting its more then that.

i didnt say that purpose didnt have people that did it (who knows?), but there isnt the large amount of evidence(like videos, or former members coming out and speaking out) for me to go falsely accusing them. like its been said, godpoing did it (as per the screenshot), but to the leaders knowledge, it was not done at events..
 
neophytal said:
you say 3 people, but one of them was your linkshell leader. leader. did you hear the word? leader. that means that the person you all GO to, and listen to, was a main culprit.

you guys did somewhat major fights... just like you said, "god knows who else did it"... 3 people, im betting its more then that.

i didnt say that purpose didnt have people that did it (who knows?), but there isnt the large amount of evidence(like videos, or former members coming out and speaking out) for me to go falsely accusing them. like its been said, godpoing did it (as per the screenshot), but to the leaders knowledge, it was not done at events..
Click to expand...

Yeah, because everyone can easily see anyone botting, right?

And the fact still stands, that Godpoint DID cheat. So how is it different to lable all of Purpose as cheaters when you can lable all of OH as cheaters?
 
Uzor said:
Yeah, because everyone can easily see anyone botting, right?

And the fact still stands, that Godpoint DID cheat. So how is it different to lable all of Purpose as cheaters when you can lable all of OH as cheaters?
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there is going to be a difference in your MAIN PALADIN flee hacking when you are kiting a mob, versus a 75THF/BRD doing it. both are cheating, but there is a difference in who "people are paying attention to in the fight". neither one is correct in doing it. everyones eyes, especially you as a RDM/WHM, would be looking at this person, the paladin, the main tank. give me a break.

i didnt label OH as entirely cheaters, i just said that they would be remembered for it... also no offense to purpose, but they really havent done any major fights?
 
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