Fffffuuucccccc****** Mmmmmeeeee BANNED -.-

[Firestreak]

You'll have do define "widespread" and remember I was in OH since back when we killed out first Fafnir a long time ago. If nothing else it was used towards the end when the LS was in a state of slow death. The fact that people used 3rd parties was because if nothing else we had too few(example: Kirin with 17 people). In my mind OH died 6 months before it really died, when Prophecy disappeared - me and all the older members stuck around cause the newer members were going to get fucked out of gear they had worked hard for. Honestly, if I don't really give a shit about 3rd party on any level except that I won't use them because I don't want the general community to blackball me for it, then to bail out on a LS that's dying and members who just barely have enough people to kill kirin to try and finish off the sky lists unsuccessfully is pretty scummy.

To help you put it in perspective, in the year I'd consider OH the kind of LS I joined because I thought it was a good LS - we killed maybe 80+ Kirins, in the 6 month long death we killed about 4. We had a few isolated kills, like jailers that we were very well suited for because about 90% of us had sea, but we didn't farm regulary or kill anything regularly. I spent most of my time meriting or leveling other jobs and when we scheduled events they were usually canceled due to too few people.

So like I said, if you want to define "wide spread" I'll have to question the greater view in that the time you are trying to focus on contained maybe 5% of our actual events and of that anything illegal was used I'd wager 20-30% of the time.

Should I have refused to continue going and just quit? Some seem to think so. Given the same circumstances, I would not change anything. They were my LS so I stuck to the end, and that's not something I'm ashamed of, that's who I am, period. Maybe one day the chips will be down and you'll be faced with hard decisions yourself, maybe not. It's however important to stay true to yourself not to what others tell you to do.

-Firestreak, getting as sick of this argument as the rest of you probably are.

 

[Firestreak]

Fyi Neophytal, Prophecy was present at a very small percentage of our activities over the last 6 months as he frequently quit the game for short periods of time and come back motivated to a very limited range of activities.

 

[Uzor]

there is going to be a difference in your MAIN PALADIN flee hacking when you are kiting a mob, versus a 75THF/BRD doing it. both are cheating, but there is a difference in who "people are paying attention to in the fight". neither one is correct in doing it. everyones eyes, especially you as a RDM/WHM, would be looking at this person, the paladin, the main tank. give me a break.

i didnt label OH as entirely cheaters, i just said that they would be remembered for it... also no offense to purpose, but they really havent done any major fights?

Yeah, because its so easy to flee hack while tanking Tiamat, Fafnir, Nidhog, etc. And let's ignore the fact that we tanked most things straight-up when we did fight them. Exception would be KB, but honestly, who is stupid enough to flee hack at King Behemoth?

And if you're going to bring up the Bahamut video that Farys posted, that is a popped BCNM with no reward what-so-ever (one that I had already beaten without Prophecy earlier, with no hacks used at all), so how did that benefit me, and Firestreak, in any way at all?

 

[Tec]

I really don't see the big deal of flee tooling.
You can't even use its full potential anymore without getting banned.

 

[Courtney]

Yeah, because everyone can easily see anyone botting, right?

And the fact still stands, that Godpoint DID cheat. So how is it different to lable all of Purpose as cheaters when you can lable all of OH as cheaters?

Because the OH members, starting with the Leader, used the cheats as a Shell as a tactic in Linkshell events in Sea, in Sky, in missions, in BCs and at HNMs. All admitted by the members involved.

It wasn't a rogue member fleeing across a zone. It was a Linkshell tactic used to further the shell.

 

[Uzor]

Because the OH members, starting with the Leader, used the cheats as a Shell as a tactic in Linkshell events in Sea, in Sky, in missions, in BCs and at HNMs. All admitted by the members involved.

It wasn't a rogue member fleeing across a zone. It was a Linkshell tactic used to further the shell.

It wasn't the linkshell using cheats at all events, or even many members like you make it sound, It was a select few, using cheats at a FEW events. Mainly the ones we had too few people to actualli kill. As Firestreak said, Kirin with 17 people. The other gods not involved, as we didn't kite those either way.

I don't see how that is so hard to understand.

Either way, its quite interesting to know Purpose cheats.

It is quite easy to make it sound much worse then it is, by watching the few evidence that others have (from the course of, what, 2 years, of which the last period of a couple of months, of only a few events) that the cheats are from. Or the few members, that were only in the shell for a short time. Those members will also make it sound worse then it is. So unless you actually were in OH, you have no idea to know how few it actually were.

Anyway, I'm leaving to Italy for a week. See you all September 12th.

 

[Tagrineth]

Mainly the ones we had too few people to actualli kill.

You mean like Dynamis - Xarcabard and Sea Jailers?

 

[Garvin]

It wasn't the linkshell using cheats at all events, or even many members like you make it sound, It was a select few, using cheats at a FEW events. Mainly the ones we had too few people to actualli kill. As Firestreak said, Kirin with 17 people. The other gods not involved, as we didn't kite those either way.

I don't see how that is so hard to understand.

So basically what you're saying is that LS members used cheats to kill things you weren't supposed to be able to kill.

This contradicts...


...absolutely nothing.
Just because it's not every single person, at every single event doesn't really make it better. Sure, you can argue "Hey, we aren't cheating as much as everyone says!", but whether or not that's true is irrelevant, as it has nothing to do with quantity.

 

[Uzor]

So basically what you're saying is that LS members used cheats to kill things you weren't supposed to be able to kill.

This contradicts...


...absolutely nothing.
Just because it's not every single person, at every single event doesn't really make it better. Sure, you can argue "Hey, we aren't cheating as much as everyone says!", but whether or not that's true is irrelevant, as it has nothing to do with quantity.

Of things we had already beaten. The linkshell was falling apart, we wanted to get as much done as possible before breaking up.

And since people seem to think I've benefitted from this cheating, I'll counter one of the largest accusations that people use. The whole "You benefit from it, and thus, that makes you a cheater".

Once I get back, if this thread is still alive, I'll mention exactly how the majority of the linkshell didn't benefit from the cheating in any way at all. Including me, Firestreak and many others.

 

[Tec]

I was in OH.
Not everyone cheated.
Hell, not even 1/4 of the LS did.
There were really only about 6 or 7 people who did.
Even then, it wasn't, "zomg guys look at me flee across altepa lawl"

 

[Courtney]

I was in OH.
Not everyone cheated.
Hell, not even 1/4 of the LS did.
There were really only about 6 or 7 people who did.
Even then, it wasn't, "zomg guys look at me flee across altepa lawl"

So only 6-7 people hacked.

For Sea NMs...
and at Kirin...
and at Bahamut...
and in Dynamis...
and in ZM17...

I'm relieved it wasn't widespread...

 

[cohibuu]

who cares, it was fun warpin around

 

[Farys]

OMG!

Ppl are still picking on ex OH members for things that happened 8 months ago?

Every goddamn sky/hnm ls can come in here and whine, it won't change the fact that some of their members botclaim'd, fleehacked. OH wasn't some kind of mafia where all the bad ppl went so they could cheat and ruin the game as a family!
All those golden apples endgame LS are/were rotten and the last permaban rampage was an evidence of that state of things (no need to name names).

Thankfully, SE's doing some good choices (and some bad for abusive tempbans). Now move onto something else.
I don't know... RMT if you're not bored of it already.

 

[Ewok]

You're taking the same stance as Squaresoft, by them saying windower is against the rules because by having windower you can potentially use third party programs. You say all third party programs hurt people because you can potentially hurt people with them. What's wrong is actually doing it not having the potential.

Well, what I stated earlier is that windower is the ONLY 3rd party program that doesnt hurt people. Problem with most people, if they have the potential, they will use it. Tbh, what else would the other 3rd party programs be used for, except to give people an edge in competition ( even fishing bots can be considered giving someone an edge in competition in the long run: easy gil= better equip which means better performance through means that dont require skill (i.e. dmg output), and also if that gil is put towards leveling a craft, it creates more competing crafters that may have not been there had they not had an easy way to make the gil to fund it).

 

[Firestreak]

Well, what I stated earlier is that windower is the ONLY 3rd party program that doesnt hurt people. Problem with most people, if they have the potential, they will use it. Tbh, what else would the other 3rd party programs be used for, except to give people an edge in competition ( even fishing bots can be considered giving someone an edge in competition in the long run: easy gil= better equip which means better performance through means that dont require skill (i.e. dmg output), and also if that gil is put towards leveling a craft, it creates more competing crafters that may have not been there had they not had an easy way to make the gil to fund it).

I couldn't care less if people want to fishbot to be honest. More fish = cheaper food = better for everyone. Fishing is so god awful and boring that fishbots should be built into the client. But then, windowing function should be built into the client, and getting around should be faster and making gil should be easier for new players, ect, ect, ect. It's all about what we think should be, and people who use windower are no different than anyone else except for the fact they can't get caught. We all know that Square WOULD enforce no windower if they COULD and then the same people who whine about flee tools would be whining about people who use windower and how they deserve to be banned.

 

[Firestreak]

And yes, I know fishbotting hurts other fishers by flooding the market. But then botting tradeskills is almost a STANDARD practice in most MMORPGs because they're designed to be so god damn awful and are seemingly made with botters in mind to make it a challenge for them.

 

[Khajit]

I couldn't care less if people want to fishbot to be honest. More fish = cheaper food = better for everyone. Fishing is so god awful and boring that fishbots should be built into the client. But then, windowing function should be built into the client, and getting around should be faster and making gil should be easier for new players, ect, ect, ect. It's all about what we think should be, and people who use windower are no different than anyone else except for the fact they can't get caught. We all know that Square WOULD enforce no windower if they COULD and then the same people who whine about flee tools would be whining about people who use windower and how they deserve to be banned.

NO SE wouldnt ban everyone that used windower. Over 50% of all ffxi players on pc use it according to polls. Banning all those paying customers isnt shooting yourself in the foot. Its wwalking up to a us warship shoving a railgun up your ass and then screaming out "Jihad Jihad" so that the soldiers feel no regret about pulling the trigger.

 

[Tymon]

NO SE wouldnt ban everyone that used windower. Over 50% of all ffxi players on pc use it according to polls. Banning all those paying customers isnt shooting yourself in the foot. Its wwalking up to a us warship shoving a railgun up your ass and then screaming out "Jihad Jihad" so that the soldiers feel no regret about pulling the trigger.

They would do it if they had proof that they all actually used it. Either that or they would have that little tiny light in their head turn on and actually window the game themselves.

 

[Skaw]

I couldn't care less if people want to fishbot to be honest. More fish = cheaper food = better for everyone. Fishing is so god awful and boring that fishbots should be built into the client. But then, windowing function should be built into the client, and getting around should be faster and making gil should be easier for new players, ect, ect, ect. It's all about what we think should be, and people who use windower are no different than anyone else except for the fact they can't get caught. We all know that Square WOULD enforce no windower if they COULD and then the same people who whine about flee tools would be whining about people who use windower and how they deserve to be banned.

Yeah, they need to do something for new players. Give them an incredible Gil Finder trait that disappears once the players hits level 30 or so for the first time. That way they can make a decent amount of gil pretty easily just killing beastmen. Make it so it only affects the first character created, as well.

 

[Firestreak]

Any online poll is going to be inconsistant with reality because I'd guess the same kind of player that doesn't use windower is the same kind of player that doesn't search the internet for online polls. It would have some bearing if it was a poll created by Squaresoft and asked to players logging in, but then everyone would say no out of fear of getting banned.

But anyway, in short. Squaresoft says you're not allowed to use windower. Squaresoft never says I'm not allowed to be in the same LS as other people who break the rules. When Squaresoft puts into the ToS "You are violating the rules of the game by being in the same linkshell as someone who is violating the ToS", then I'll just refuse to join any linkshells. Until then, it's not MY job to enforce the rules and not ME who is breaking the rules.

End of story. If you'd prefer to refuse to shell with me or do any activities with me as a result it's your loss not mine.

Edit in: Just to throw in here, windower user isn't the target audience for squaresoft. The target audience for squaresoft is lower level players who don't play very often but aren't going to quit. Their job isn't to get as much traffic as possible into their servers rather to get people to continue to pay their monthly bill. Someone who spends 12 hours a day playing FFXI is a far less profit because of the bandwith they use compared to a very casual player.

Furthermore, of the people who do use windower, I think a large percentage of them would simply use regular mode - or more likely, buy FFXI for PS2 or Xbox360. (best thing possible for them, make a windower user buy Xbox 360 version so they can surf the net)