Fffffuuucccccc****** Mmmmmeeeee BANNED -.-

[Firestreak]

I recognize that it gives me an advantage over other players(even if it's just to correct their flaws), that much is obvious; but it's no where near as bad as using a claim-bot or flee hacking. Saying they're equivalent is like saying murder is just as bad as shoplifting; it's stupid.

Ok, here's how I look at it.

Claim bots are pretty much always pretty much the worst thing you can do morally since they function entirely for the purposes of giving an advantage that allows you to kill more NMs. Flee tools while being used to claim a NM, hold a NM or kill a NM that others are trying to get as well - is right up there because it makes things unfair for others trying to fight that same NM. However people talk about absolutes here.

Being that they beleve someone who flee hacks is an "absolute" villian. So if I flee hack to camp I'm making it unfair because I'll start killing my mobs a little sooner. You can compare TP Party to that very easily in that it gives an advantage but it doesn't directly hurt other people or indirectly hurt people in any significant way.

Fish botting is actually even below that and fish botting is what I'd compare to TP Party most directly. Fish botting is a type of botting that has 100% zero no direct negative effect on other players. Someone fish bots and there are as many fish out there. Someone using TP Party, they kill the mob 2 seconds faster than they would have, the pull 2 seconds faster, another party misses the mob. That's insignificant but still direct negative effect on others based on using 3rd party cheats. Fish bots on the other hand is entirely indirect, as in you lower the value of fish. Should be noted as well, using TP Party lowers the value of exp in similar fashion. At least when you lower the value of fish you provide more a service to the community than anything because there's more consumers than sellers.

So when using TP Party, you really have to say that Fish botting, summoner skill botting and similar is OK, in my opinion.

 

[neophytal]

not wanting to re-hash the argument, but per the general thread about "this gm is the man"--- entire LS gets jailed for 1 person flee hacking....

so i guess SE thinks that no one should benefit from speed hacking as a whole as well.... interesting

 

[Darklion]

Well like I said, it's like a bot but the opposite of a bot. Instead of doing the work for you, it does the work for your partner.

Now I have no problem with people using it but then at least recognize what it's equivalent to while you're using it and criticizing others for botting.

Are you trying to compare Tparty to that dumb fuck of a LS who wasn't able to do shit without Flee tools? Are you waiting for us as a whole to tell you Ya it was ok to use hacks, are you waiting for a pat on the back and us to tell you its going to be ok?

When you have to resort to bitch tactics in order to complete something no matter the situation You no longer have repect from me. You wanna say: Ya we cheated, but it was ok cause we blah blah blah... NO my friend it wasn't and you don't deserve repect from this Community no matter what the fuck you did.

The First time I went to an event from Ohax I saw you motha fuckas cheat I droped the pearl and warped out that very second I didn't want to be around garbage like that.

 

[Firestreak]

not wanting to re-hash the argument, but per the general thread about "this gm is the man"--- entire LS gets jailed for 1 person flee hacking....

so i guess SE thinks that no one should benefit from speed hacking as a whole as well.... interesting

Yeah it's an interesting implication, i will be watching if anything like that happens again. If that's become a new policy then merely being in the same events as others who are cheating then makes you guilty.

I follow ToS rules strictly so if that's the policy then there's nothing to argue over, but this is obviously new so:

1) Don't really blame myself for not following rules when they weren't in place.

2) Feel kind of bad for the guy who got a mark on his record for what I'd call a very questionable move by the GM. If they want to start enforcing that new policy that's their right, just see it as unfair to let the players know about a new policy by temp banning people.

3) Think they should ammend the ToS to specify merely being in the same alliance as someone using 3rd party tool is breaking the rules.


I kind of wonder almost if GMs are actually reading this thread, just by the sheer coincidence that we were discussing the ramifications of guilt by association on a fairly large thread and that's when they decided to enforce it for the first time.

Are you trying to compare Tparty to that dumb fuck of a LS who wasn't able to do shit without Flee tools? Are you waiting for us as a whole to tell you Ya it was ok to use hacks, are you waiting for a pat on the back and us to tell you its going to be ok?

When you have to resort to bitch tactics in order to complete something no matter the situation You no longer have repect from me. You wanna say: Ya we cheated, but it was ok cause we blah blah blah... NO my friend it wasn't and you don't deserve repect from this Community no matter what the fuck you did.

The First time I went to an event from Ohax I saw you motha fuckas cheat I droped the pearl and warped out that very second I didn't want to be around garbage like that.

People like you(among others) are the reason there's no intelligent debate about morality of different cheats. You come in here and instead of actually reading what people say quote posts you obviously didn't read(or comprehend) and then vent personal attacks.

It's no wonder there are 5 different definitions of "ethical cheating" on this thread and 4 groups of people who are shocked with the others for not automatically having come to the same conclusion as others. Can't even discuss the fucking issue without people like you coming in and showing that you are in fact retarded.

To answer your question, I was comparing TP Party to specifically fish bots, not flee tools.

As far as comparisons towards flee tools earlier: I compared windower and any parallel functions to a person who uses no 3rd party programs but is willing to be in a LS with others who do.

I'm getting pretty sick of having to dumb down my explanations further and further and I'm reminded why almost always after posting my opinion on QCDN part of me realizes trying to argue on the internet is a complete waste of time.

 

[Watchyourstep]

Damn.. take it as a sign of good fortune GP.. some good memories man

 

[Kire]

this reminds me of some one trying to solo AV as a blm lol and made it so the mob could not hit them XD got banned will look up the images got them some where

 

[Darklion]

You are the one coming here trying to justify yourself and OH for what they did. People well never say it was ok or I can understand why you did such and such, My friend needs a joytoy and I wanna help but I don't have enough ppl to kill him, so then Flee hacking and POS warpin is ok by your standards.

At the end of the day your the cheater not me. You may not care thats on you, But I do and I can live with that.

 

[Firestreak]

You are the one coming here trying to justify yourself and OH for what they did. People well never say it was ok or I can understand why you did such and such, My friend needs a joytoy and I wanna help but I don't have enough ppl to kill him, so then Flee hacking and POS warpin is ok by your standards.

At the end of the day your the cheater not me. You may not care thats on you, But I do and I can live with that.

You're the one trying to condemn but you have no argument except insults. People like you who are entirely emotional and without thought hurt your own cause by making yourself look bad and any arguments you have attached to yourself with it.

And no, flee hacking is not "ok," it's cheating. Then again as far as I'm concerned, buying gil, using windower, TP Party, fish bots, summoner skillup bots, distancer plugin windower macros FFXI Tools or harrassment is not ok. I don't recommend anyone does them, doesn't mean I feel guilt myself for what the people around me do. Square wants to tell us that it's breaking the rules being in the same ally as those who break the rules? Fine, then I won't be in the same allyas anyone who breaks the rules. That sure as hell wasn't the policy back when I was in OH.

The only thing I've been trying to get across this entire thread is why I see people getting permabanned lately(frankly, all these permabanned people I barely knew in game) and instead of cheering that they're gone I can sympathize cause I don't feel they're bad people.

 

[Darklion]

You're the one trying to condemn but you have no argument except insults. People like you who are entirely emotional and without thought hurt your own cause by making yourself look bad and any arguments you have attached to yourself with it.

And no, flee hacking is not "ok," it's cheating. Then again as far as I'm concerned, buying gil, using windower, TP Party, fish bots, summoner skillup bots, distancer plugin windower macros FFXI Tools or harrassment is not ok. I don't recommend anyone does them, doesn't mean I feel guilt myself for what the people around me do. Square wants to tell us that it's breaking the rules being in the same ally as those who break the rules? Fine, then I won't be in the same allyas anyone who breaks the rules. That sure as hell wasn't the policy back when I was in OH.

The only thing I've been trying to get across this entire thread is why I see people getting permabanned lately(frankly, all these permabanned people I barely knew in game) and instead of cheering that they're gone I can sympathize cause I don't feel they're bad people.

Well you made it Clear that you are not trying to say its ok, what you are doing is trying to justify it cause people needed their gear and you wanted to give it to them by any means possible. As for sympathizing for other people for cheating I won't do it, Ya he had balls to come here and say it, but he won't get my repect for it. He got what he deserverd and thats all there is to it.

 

[Firestreak]

Well you made it Clear that you are not trying to say its ok, what you are doing is trying to justify it cause people needed their gear and you wanted to give it to them by any means possible. As for sympathizing for other people for cheating I won't do it, Ya he had balls to come here and say it, but he won't get my repect for it he got what he deserverd and thats all there is to it.

You don't have to sympathize with cheaters and you don't have to respect honesty but you really should acknowledge that with such a controversial issue that people are going to have a lot of different opinions on the issue, and the only decent discussions can be made after you first learn to accept other's opinions and then communicate.

There are plenty of people out there who have not yet but will in the future be put into a situation where they have to make choices about 3rd party programs and while screaming "cheaters are faggots!!!" may seem an effective strategy to win them over you'd be surprised how little people regard an opinion without a reasoning behind it.

Mainly Neophytal, Stouter, Garvin and Bajarett are actually trrying to put together logical arguments as to why someone shouldn't cheat which a newer player might actually read and actually affect their decision making process. I for one until quite recently never read an argument breaking downs the pro/cons of specific cheats other than their functions and if they are or aren't in fact "gay." So I came up with my own system of morality based on what mattered to me. It may seem convoluded to some but then again the points haven't been broken down or refuted yet, merely I cycle over and over again with people like you wasting everyone's time.

 

[Stouter]

There are plenty of people out there who have not yet but will in the future be put into a situation where they have to make choices about 3rd party programs and while screaming "cheaters are faggots!!!" may seem an effective strategy to win them over you'd be surprised how little people regard an opinion without a reasoning behind it.

Yeah and a lot of those people that said cheating is terrible won't say a damn thing if there's a benefit in it for them. Just like all those that cried fowl about stuff being manaburned, then showed up to have Divine might manaburned for them, or sat outside a manaburned KS99 to lot a Blackbelt item.

 

[neophytal]

Yeah and a lot of those people that said cheating is terrible won't say a damn thing if there's a benefit in it for them. Just like all those that cried fowl about stuff being manaburned, then showed up to have Divine might manaburned for them, or sat outside a manaburned KS99 to lot a Blackbelt item.

lol man that is so true

 

[Firestreak]

Yeah and a lot of those people that said cheating is terrible won't say a damn thing if there's a benefit in it for them. Just like all those that cried fowl about stuff being manaburned, then showed up to have Divine might manaburned for them, or sat outside a manaburned KS99 to lot a Blackbelt item.

You don't have to look far, there's one such person on this thread already, and several such people potentially unaware of their LS members.

 

[Strid]

and several such people potentially unaware of their LS members.

Being unaware is totally different from being Naive, because the people are friends or well known, or turning a shoulder because you benefit. "Not seeing" or knowing LS members use cheats in events is just lies to mask the truth or being Naive. Any right minded person who has been playing the game for a long enough time can see cheating a mile away. Guilty by association is the way it should have been from the get go.

 

[Skaw]

Guilty by association is the way it should have been from the get go.

Agreed. But those only associated with the cheaters shouldn't get punished equally. What the GM did was good, the LS got punished by being ripped away from the kill because they were associated with the cheaters. The cheaters themselves are in store for a much dire punishment. It seems fitting to me, that those that pal around with people that cheat get cockblocked on kills that the cheaters are doing their thing with, yet no actual punishment.

 

[Daveman]

To be honest, the fact that you consider alliance mp a hack is fucking laughable. It's not like it's doing much missing in the first place.

Well, what if someone used fleetool at 12% speed all the time? What wrong are they doing? If They're not lucky enough to be able to equip w.legs, or rich enough to buy strider boots, or lucky enough to be in a ls that consitently kills tiamat, why are they automatically not allowed to walk as the same speed as these people?

To be honest, fleeing at 12% is fucking laughable, it's not like you're doing anything that can't be done legitly in the first place.

---

The point of this post is: It's all about perspective, no matter what you say tpplugin/distance plugin -are- cheats, accept it and move on. It's not a big deal 90% of the people use it, 0.1% of the people actually care. Just don't fool yourself about it. If you've ever seen my screenshots, I obviously use these plugins, not saying you're evil for using it, but you have to realize it's a cheat, saying it's not is trying to justify it to make yourself seem like an angel.

Infact, stouter I tihnk mentioned deleteing plugin folder in winodwer, I'd really like to hear from stouter why that needed to be done? after all according to several people tp plugin isn't a cheat. Does stouter not like the clutter caused by extra numbers, or is there something a bit deeper? like even higher standards than us?

 

[meeze]

Well, what if someone used fleetool at 12% speed all the time? What wrong are they doing? If They're not lucky enough to be able to equip w.legs, or rich enough to buy strider boots, or lucky enough to be in a ls that consitently kills tiamat, why are they automatically not allowed to walk as the same speed as these people?

To be honest, fleeing at 12% is fucking laughable, it's not like you're doing anything that can't be done legitly in the first place.

while we're at it, let me have an E. body, I'm not lucky enough to have an LS that kills Fafhog, and I'll take a ridill, and an osode, and full N. set, and let me get an o-hat, and let me get everything I don't feel like getting myself.

Let everyone have what they want by hacking the game, forget about camping NMs or trying to better yourself in game, just write a program.

 

[Daveman]

while we're at it, let me have an E. body, I'm not lucky enough to have an LS that kills Fafhog, and I'll take a ridill, and an osode, and full N. set, and let me get an o-hat, and let me get everything I don't feel like getting myself.

Let everyone have what they want by hacking the game, forget about camping NMs or trying to better yourself in game, just write a program.

either I fail at sarcasm, or you do =P

Was pointing out how it's all a manner of trying to justify an unfair advantage, which tp plugin gives.

 

[meeze]

I usually stop reading when I disagree with something and start my babbling. Didn't catch the second half of your post lol

 

[Skaw]

Was pointing out how it's all a manner of trying to justify an unfair advantage, which tp plugin gives.

I see Peregrine's taught you the fine art of skipping over posts. Nice job, Dave.