Fffffuuucccccc****** Mmmmmeeeee BANNED -.-

[Stouter]

Infact, stouter I tihnk mentioned deleteing plugin folder in winodwer, I'd really like to hear from stouter why that needed to be done? after all according to several people tp plugin isn't a cheat. Does stouter not like the clutter caused by extra numbers, or is there something a bit deeper? like even higher standards than us?

I used them for a few weeks after the rng nerf. I started with distance for guaging my shots, and saw TParty and tried it out. I got dependent on them, and then decided that was a bad thing. I think of them as a cheat, and I'd rather not use them.

 

[Skaw]

I agree Distance is cheating, since it provides you with information that is not available in any shape or form anyway. I used it once, when DrawDistance(which doesn't display mobs, just terrain, newbs) started breaking, I thought that was the update to it. Realized it was the wrong plug-in and completely obliterated it.

I know Dave's going to retort with his retarded Strider Boots post. The thing is, mimicing items/job abilities just because you're lazy to achieve them is low, and unacceptable. We can warp from area to area in game, so by your standards, position hopping is totally acceptable! Since positions are smaller than areas, it obviously hurts no one!!!!!!11

But you know, I typed out a nice post describing a way to use TParty's function without it, backing my reason as to why on the scale of HOLY SHIT THIS BREAKS THE GAME!!!!!! "cheats", it's down there with online maps and quest guides.

 

[Marajade]

while i agree that Distance is a cheat, i still use it. Se made my shots dependant on how far away i am, but gave me no way to check it for myself. In merits, i dont have the time to move back and forth to see where i get good attacks every mob. They should at least give me some /echo command i can use to find distance. They can even put it in the messed up Vana'Diel distances.

 

[Skaw]

while i agree that Distance is a cheat, i still use it. Se made my shots dependant on how far away i am, but gave me no way to check it for myself. In merits, i dont have the time to move back and forth to see where i get good attacks every mob. They should at least give me some /echo command i can use to find distance. They can even put it in the messed up Vana'Diel distances.

Yeah, if anything, give a job abilities that works like the Beastmasters Gauge. Doesn't do anything but provide information. Can't claim with it. Can't aggro with it. While still limiting, since you could only do it so often(make it short like basic pet commands,) once you get used to it, after you use it, you can easily just move to the correct distance away.

 

[Firestreak]

Pretty interpretive to me. The cheat is ok because you feel it SHOULD be part of the game.

 

[Skaw]

What are you talking about now, Fire? Marajade's post, or mine?

is your friend, he likes to be used!

 

[Daveman]

I know Dave's going to retort with his retarded Strider Boots post. The thing is, mimicing items/job abilities just because you're lazy to achieve them is low, and unacceptable. We can warp from area to area in game, so by your standards, position hopping is totally acceptable! Since positions are smaller than areas, it obviously hurts no one!!!!!!11

But you know, I typed out a nice post describing a way to use TParty's function without it, backing my reason as to why on the scale of HOLY SHIT THIS BREAKS THE GAME!!!!!! "cheats", it's down there with online maps and quest guides.

That first parahraph is -exactly- what the right response should be, however you seem to remain blind to the fact that the response should also apply to tp party.

It's an example of how one can justify anything, tp plugin is an advantage that is not normally had. You cannot get around this, if it wasn't an advantage, why would you even use it? Infact, delete tp party now skaw, since you seem to be able to use its functions without any use of 3rd party tools.

The fact is I use tp party, I time my nukes better, if I see two people at 70% tp, they might not be spamming tp reports yet, but I will know that I shouldn't start casting ThunderIV or else I'll be forced to MB with Fire/aeroIV if it's a light SC.

 

[Skaw]

I don't even really use/pay attention to my TP anymore, regardless TParty or not. I only get invited to cannons on MNK, and on BST, the only TP count I'm concerned about is any value over 100. Which if I can't get while fighting a mob, I shouldn't be fighting ITs. So, gladly.

 

[Firestreak]

It's more a general sense than a specific post that I'm trying to point out.

Me, and I believe Daveman as well, aren't judging TP Party or Distancer plugin or windower as detrimental to the game, because obviously neither of us are particulary judgemental to that type of thing.

Merely exploring the implications of the logic you've been using to justify it by using the same arguments you've used against other programs on them. I think the main point being I understand 2 things: 1 being a line crossed which is breaking ToS at all, and 2 being scale in which one program is obviously more severe than the other. People have been trying to draw a black and white line past the only real line, the ToS and create systems of "this is ok because this" or "this is not ok because that" and all I have to do is apply your same logic to what you are actually arguing against.

The point isn't that I believe TP Party or distancer is bad, rather the arguments I've heard to say 1 cheat is OK and 1 cheat isn't OK hasn't really made any sense.

I think windower and TP Party and distancer are cheats. Obviously flee tools and POS hack are much worse by altering the game in more significant ways, but I think someone who wants to argue a strong stance against cheating should not cheat at all. It's like a cop who takes bribes being compared to a murderer. Yeah, the murderer is worse but if the cop wants to try to police people the cop should be clean.

 

[Marajade]

Pretty interpretive to me. The cheat is ok because you feel it SHOULD be part of the game.

actualy, in this case i'm justifying it because its damn hard to do my job without it.

 

[Firestreak]

And until you stop using it, you can't counter someone saying they flee hack because it makes their job easier.

Not the same scale. One not as big of a scale as the other, but while you ARE cheating, the arguments you might want to make against more extreme cheaters don't really make any sense.


Just to throw in: The fact that all of you guys won't even give up windower to be able to argue that cheating is wrong in an absolute scale to try and put me down, who is not an LS member and in several cases a rival, coupled with the fact that of all the flee hacking incidents the rate of people leaving LSs or getting kicked from LSs is a tiny fraction, makes me wonder how many of you guys quit your LSs when fishy things start to happen.

Won't even give up windower to take a stance against flee hackers in other LS, who here is really gonna drop their LS to take a stance against their own friends? I am missing something here maybe, doesn't realy make any sense to me.

 

[Stouter]

actualy, in this case i'm justifying it because its damn hard to do my job without it.

Someone recently told me that it's damn near impossible to play bard without distance. If you spend all your time in a wheelchair of course you won't be able to run very well.

 

[Marajade]

Someone recently told me that it's damn near impossible to play bard without distance. If you spend all your time in a wheelchair of course you won't be able to run very well.

no, i play bard without distance. Its hard to hit Paladins when the rest of the melees dont move away, but its not that hard.

For Ranger, i loose 15% of my damage if i'm not within a foot of the correct spot. And against merit mobs (a La Imp) i dont have the 2-3 shots it takes to make sure i'm in the right place, because it'll be dead already.

 

[Ewok]

To be honest, the fact that you consider alliance mp a hack is fucking laughable. It's not like it's doing much missing in the first place.

Have you ever used an outside reference for the game, such as NM info, quest solutions, or maps? Those are cheats as well. I mean, if you're so hellbent about being against things that give someone "an edge" over someone else, clearly you're righteous enough to stand by your decision to not use those sources of information. Since it clearly gives you an edge over someone who doesn't.

Well, maybe look at it from a different angle then. If SE wanted us to know alliance MP, or others TP, it would be ingame. In the end it is their property, you are just renting. You want that to change, complain to them, don't take matters into your own hands. Its like renting a house and putting in an extra window w/o letting the landlord know, because "it should've been there to begin with".

As far I know, SE doesn't have a probelm with (ie there is nothing in the user agreement about it) sharing information, which is all these sites with maps and quest solutions are doing. Again, it's not what we view as right and wrong, just merely what SE will tolerate.

 

[Ewok]

What teamwork? It's not like theres strategy involved typing <tp>.




Following guides, strategies, and using maps outside of the game that you don't have in game are more detrimental to the grand design of the game than being able to see another players TP. Really, when theres a command in the game that can be used at any given time to display TP, whats the harm in seeing it? Theres no edge. Theres no gameplay change. Theres no limitation being avoided. If you could only tell your party your TP once every set amount of time, yes, then it's something that would change gameplay that would give players an advantage. But theres no limiter. TP is freely displayable without TParty. It doesn't do anything gamebreaking.

If you're really deep in to your own convictions to where you see not having to type 4 characters in to display your TP as a gamebreaking issue, it would be hypocritcal of you to use a printed out map of an area that you don't have the map of ingame. Or using a crafting guide to figure out level caps instead of grinding away at a recipe endlessly until you just figure it's capped and move on. Or a solution to a quest/mission.

I don't think it's a matter of just promoting teamwork as it is a method of making things a little more challenging. Plus you say, whats the harm if you can just type <tp>, but what about the players who are too slow, or are too lazy, or simply forget. I am a lvl 75 blm, and I know this would make things ALOT easier for me if I had it installed.

 

[Ewok]

Well you made it Clear that you are not trying to say its ok, what you are doing is trying to justify it cause people needed their gear and you wanted to give it to them by any means possible. As for sympathizing for other people for cheating I won't do it, Ya he had balls to come here and say it, but he won't get my repect for it. He got what he deserverd and thats all there is to it.

Actually, I read that post, he said he STAYED in the ls to help people get their gear. Never did he justify the use of the third party tools. Furthermore, he actually said he would advice AGAINST it.

Idk, I guess some people just read what that want to read, lol.

 

[Ewok]

while i agree that Distance is a cheat, i still use it. Se made my shots dependant on how far away i am, but gave me no way to check it for myself. In merits, i dont have the time to move back and forth to see where i get good attacks every mob. They should at least give me some /echo command i can use to find distance. They can even put it in the messed up Vana'Diel distances.

Yes they should....... why don't you let them know that..... this way they won't have to ban you too.

 

[Marajade]

Yes they should....... why don't you let them know that..... this way they won't have to ban you too.

If Square gave a monkeys ass i might just do that. But we know they dont.

Guess what, If every single person suddenly decided to drive on the other side of the road, No one would give a fuck.

 

[Shaunessy]

What I think the should do with RA is make it so that your skill level increases the size of the sweet spot. I mean if your {Archery} skill is 137, you shouldn't miss or do less DMG to a tunnel worm when you're using ranged attack. Just my thoughts.

 

[Necrosis]

What I think the should do with RA is make it so that your skill level increases the size of the sweet spot. I mean if your {Archery} skill is 137, you shouldn't miss or do less DMG to a tunnel worm when you're using ranged attack. Just my thoughts.

SE should just make RNG a FPS.