Final Fantasy XI and what it was meant to be.

[Legomyeggo]

i think my brain imploded when I read that. Such an awesome level of smart.

 

[Anttaru]

The point isn't about the economy and/or fixing it...It's about the intentions of those you are helping. You say helping them can't further F up the economy, but the ends you are helping them meet are wrong.

Amature !

It's is about the economy and fixing it, if it wasn't you'd be bitching at anyone who claimes before you do. You say helping them is wrong with no reason, and help isn't the case, sellers can kill HNM on their own and roll in very large parties. Real members playing in their group is gil remaining ingame. Counter camping real players while in parties like this is a different case.

Mentally are you programed or the programer ?

You camp HNMs or anything with gil sellers, you are increasing their chances of claiming and winning, thereby decreasing honest players chances of claiming, etc. You may think it hurts the gil sellers that you get a tiny chunk of what they make, but you're hurting honest players more by helping gil sellers out. And also it doesn't matter how nice gil sellers are or anything. They're just there to do their fucking job. I'm sure there were some very nice and friendly Nazi's during WWII, who were all just doing their jobs. Doesn't make it right.

I understand that Kyle, that's why as i mentioned in my first post, everytime a regular party was on the scene i simply left. There comes a time where one simply cannot damn themselves involving issues such as this. I cannot speak for others.

Gil sellers typacially hunt in very large parties, i have seen them hunt in parties of 18, the odds of the sellers gettnig claim is often greater than any.

Plain and simple having all the sellers in one alliance reinforces the RMT stability. And who can deny having sellers mixed with normal players would mean less gil for IGE ? Who ?
Not to mention less MPK attempts for all good hunters.

For the sake of clearity i'd also like to add i do not take either sides on this matter, i'm either liked or disliked, i do not hunt with gil sellers, i just have before, ( It was a rather good experience actually ) and i'm not looking foward to doing it again, because this community is driven by faith inspired emotion rather than logic. If the community was driven by logic, the majority wouldn't be suffering from inflation and be complaining about peace makers keeping gil ingame. And of coarse they do not see it that way.
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.
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.....Point of view: How it is, many would not accept the Truth......

-Regular players on a high note reject the Gil seller. (Less odds of gil staying where it belongs)

-Gil Seller is forced to stick with their own and share the same way we do except with their kind only. (100% catch goes to IGE)

-Reason why IGE gets more income is driven by the ones who dispise gil sellers the most, (see above point of views).. And those are the same people who reject them, and keep the sellers huddled together. ( saying no thanks, never, Racism, fuck off, ignore, screw over, MPK. etc...)

- Enix Banning large amounts of sellers could result in accidentally revoking an innocent well paid for customer, Even under investagation you'll see players who have simular pattern to gil sellers staying up even for days, catch little sleep and be back on. Simply lending out a large sum of gil to a friend can be mistaken as RMT. Even at 50,000 members can take SE years to properly get to know. Even at 1,000 members, many will sell their accounts and status will change. SQUARE-ENIX CANNOT CURE RMT.

- Gil sellers keep crafters happy. In all honesty i like to see a fat stock in the market when i'm crafting, crafting involves little things from all over, and those things usually go for cheep cause the seller knows time is money.

- There are those who simply don't care.

- There are those who buy gil and keep RMT intact.

- There are those who are afraid to revolutionize their ways. And think people like me are standing up for Gil sellers when truthfully i'm showing all of you how to rip RMT in half. Gil sellers care about how much they bring in as a freelance individual and cannot worry about if another seller obtained gil or not. If they party with regular members they get their share the same.... and IGE gets less.

-Sharing HNM drops will not make one rich in short time. It takes very long. Not sharing a drop would make one rich very fast, but even for sellers it does not work that way. They cash in their share, and IGE gets who whole assload for cheaper than they sell it for.

There is only 1 of each HNM per day. Who pulls off super plays and gets 3 of them daily ? It can happen, But not everyday. Sellers huddled together, and off in groups makes IGE so much more product to sell. The real members truly arn't a threat to IGE. Not like this.

-People who complain do nothing to assess the situation, when we as players are the only ones who can do it, by accepting sellers as we do our LS mates IGE WILL RECIEVE LESS ! Yes it sounds crazy. Why ? cause one should be ashamed of meeting strange friends disliked for silly reasons online, while at the same time be a virus to RMT? Oh how pride will be our own demise.

- It's true two wrongs don't make a right, in any imaginable case. And with all the hate, things will never change FOR THE BETTER which is less gil for IGE... excuse the caps, i assume hardly anyone see's my point.

- People don't want to communicate with people who have bad reputations. I see people diss Wolfskymoon, and he's halarious. Colbwa too, yet many are too soft to stand up a little and either let them pass or roll with'em. Harmless.
I've seen members do messed up things, and to me they appear to wander alone, i don't see people revolting on them either. Maybe because a flock of haters was not created. Gil sellers of all, people don't want to be caught dead with them, cause they are afraid it would ruin the game for them. Acceptance is key.

- People say counter camping a party is bad when your party is comprised of gil sellers... I think that is true to a degree personally i choose not to counter camp real players while experiencing a gil selling party, to avoid becoming some kind of villan to the eyes of the community.... Gil sellers being a whole alliance in it's purest state is even worse.

- Gill sellers mixed with regular players will cause an inflation to the price of gil being sold in real life RMT. Less will buy it. Cause in effect, when the flow is broken to less prouduct in stock (gil in this case), price must change to appease the income, supply and demand. LESS GIL WILL BE SOLD IN REAL LIFE BECAUSE OF THIS.

I speak with much reason to back up my statements not to just point my finger with blind purpose as many here are programed to do.

 

[Cythe]

If you are going to throw around insulting words, at least spell them correctly.

I'm sorry everyone here who doesn't agree with your horse shit is 'blind,' but last time I checked, we are all entitled to think whatever we damn well please.

Funny, I never said anything anywhere in my posts about the economy and fixing it. I just put the people who help those who have screwed things up on the hot seat for helping the technical 'bad guys' of the FF world out.

 

[Cythe]

By the way, you might want to factor into your 'helping gilsellers claim gives them smaller cut' equation that by helping gilsellers claim, we increase the amount of times they get an amount of gil to split. The more they claim, the more gil they make, and the more gil they can sell. So no, your attempt at the 'positive' side to helping gilsellers really doesn't cut it.

 

[Anttaru]

If you are going to throw around insulting words, at least spell them correctly.

What insulting word have i used ? And if my miss-spelled words offend you in any way, just excuse it, i'm not an editor and i care not to use Word Perfect here.

I'm sorry everyone here who doesn't agree with your horse shit is 'blind,' but last time I checked, we are all entitled to think whatever we damn well please.

I never said your opinion is horse shit, and i sure as hell never said your not entitled to your own opinion. Bashing people who play with gil sellers isn't the right of way either. All i want to hear is reason why, and not "this and that is bad" with no explination.

Funny, I never said anything anywhere in my posts about the economy and fixing it.

You said "The point isn't about the economy and/or fixing it"... I mearly disagreed, so cheer up.

I just put the people who help those who have screwed things up on the hot seat for helping the technical 'bad guys' of the FF world out.

Say's you, you don't even understand (as you say) "The People who help those" They are innocent for playing the game, and also innocent for not flocking with haters and not giving a damn about all this crap you cry about. Atleast they take back some of the gil that belongs to us, what do you do ? Bash them.

It's the willingness to buy gil, which made the test of selling gil stay. The Bad guy is the consumer, your friend, your LS mate, your party mate, the ones who not nessarly lie, but remain silent about their purchase. I know it's out there, we have gill sellers on our server and they are still farming right now. the Industry is large.

I'd actually admire a gil buyer who never gave a rats ass and exsposed themselves for how they came to be ingame.. You wouldn't understand why it's to be admired, some call it balls. This dosn't mean i support it, i just don't care about what i cannot stop in a video game with a real mind on the other side.

By the way, you might want to factor into your 'helping gilsellers claim gives them smaller cut' equation that by helping gilsellers claim, we increase the amount of times they get an amount of gil to split.

No it's not helping gil sellers claim, it's splicing together gil sellers with regular gamers on a wide scale.

The Gil seller gets the same amount of gil. When the seller submits their gil to IGE, it results in IGE recieving the gil in seperate and incomplete fragmented amounts. That means slower intake for IGE. As oppose to all fragments coming in at once, which could be that 15 million gil sword or 30 million boots or freakishly pricy dagger. Fragmented output all of which will enventually lead to a waiting list for IGE consumers. And will inflate the price of the IGE sale as well. What happens in the game effects IGE's system, not the other way around.

-Say an alliance of 10 people 3 of which are sellers get an Enhancing sword. 70% of that 15,000,000 will remain in game. 30% goes to IGE. /slap! Still beats sellers camping together all the time. as random the game, so is the success, which is not daily keep in mind.

-Gil seller alliances are successful at obtaining things like enhancing sword, V.claw, Striderboots, and everything else thats worth a ton. It will happen, and happen and happen over and over like it does all the time, and the best thing to do is slow and stagger the RMT operation by taking that very gil back. Only a truce can cause this revolution. So much peace can be restored and better this entire case to say the least.

The more they claim, the more gil they make, and the more gil they can sell. So no, your attempt at the 'positive' side to helping gilsellers really doesn't cut it.

We are all bound by time, you think the Gil seller can magically hunt in a spliced party and in a full GS party at the same time ? There are only 24 hours in a day, and HNM spawn how we know it.

It's not helping Gil sellers, it a way for complainers such as yourself to actually do something instead of whinning.

Think outside the box and shake the system man. Read up and see, those IGE guys run a billion dollar business, you gotta play hard, But you ? No you can't. You need to become the very thing you dispise and disbelieve in to even start to do anything else but whine about what sellers do to your poor self. It's not gonna happen and you can deny and keep thinking i'm saying "Help the Gil sellers make money" When it's about fragmentation. lol go on.

 

[Bajaratt]

Anttaru, you're missing the whole point of what people are saying. No one is giving a shit about economy and you're the only one bringing it up. You're flat-out ignoring everything people are saying because they used the word economy in one post, despite the fact that it has a completely different context than what you're thinking.

The rest of us are saying we don't like the means to which they make gil, not what they do with it. You're coming off as trying to justifying people helping them MPK, steal or cheat other people out of gil because then the gil sellers get a slightly smaller take. If they played like legitimate players and didn't cheat to get their money, very few people would actually care what they did with their money and it's very minor impacts on the economy, so all of your economy points are irrelevant anyways.

 

[Passions]

The rest of us are saying we don't like the means to which they make gil, not what they do with it. You're coming off as trying to justifying people helping them MPK, steal or cheat other people out of gil because then the gil sellers get a slightly smaller take. If they played like legitimate players and didn't cheat to get their money, very few people would actually care what they did with their money and it's very minor impacts on the economy, so all of your economy points are irrelevant anyways.

so what your saying is after monday it is ok to camp with them? that's what i got out of that. if the new mpk system works as SE plans and you can't mpk anymore will it then be ok to camp with them and make gilzorz

 

[Bajaratt]

Not really, since they're still going to try to get HNM's unfairly. They'll still sit there trying to steal and lag out the people fighting, they'll stil use 3rd party stuff to cheat into claims. If people want to be known for helping out the worst players, in both skills and morals, that's their choice. It's not like this thread had any chance of changing anyone's mind about the subject.

 

[Mokk]

Not to defend one side over another or anything since this thread has been mostly blubbering about having your personal play experiences collectively infringed upon but the following point has been made numerous times before and i'd like to put a question to you guys....

EVERYTHING ANYONE does has some negative effect on someone else wether it be farming, camping, xping, etc. and definately wether you notice it or not the effect is still there.

I find it amazing there's another seller/buyer/camper thread, honestly. Hey i know, let's bitch about the rng nerf some more while we're hitting these trends at the peak of their popularity.

I basicly just want to know why it's such a big deal you folks don't like what the sellers/buyers are doing meanwhile 99% of the server population are an ethical wasteland who could give a crap less about the pompousity of the ethical 1% who have been fooled into thinking someone gives a damn about your righteous indignation at what they're doing?

Those who can, do. Those who can't hire cheap labor. What exactly is the gripe here aside from more of the usual: "(insert name here) camps/buys/sells which means ...... A WITCH!!!!! BURN THEM!!!" or the ever popular "(insert name here) has keen gear which apperantly came out of thin air while i didn't have my nose up their ass.... which must mean ...... A WITCH!!!!!"

Coming from such a polarized community these kind of reads are the highest form of comedy.

Good Day.

 

[Mokk]

As an afterthought i'd also add this: god forbid you folks put as much passion or energy into banding together to make the community better as you do writing 15 page threads about what's wrong with it.

Put up or shut up seems to be the end all of this conversation everytime it comes up so i'd like to leave you with that.

 

[Padington]

So far Mokk's reply seems to be the best and as such...I'm done with trying to find a little justice. He's right this whole calling "Witch" on anyone we don't like or have reason to feel envious of is counter-productive and self-destructive. I won't be with Peterli's people anymore for economic reasons and they're as simple as time vs. money. I can make more on my own farming with my THF than I can in a party camping an HNM for hour upon hour only to lose the claim to someone who brought a bot or was lucky enough to have lower latency. I know how you all feel about them but I still hold with what I said at the beginning...and if that's not good enough reason to leave them alone how about this - If they don't harass you, MPK you, insult you or make racist statements to or about you....your the one who's the problem when you do these things to them. But don't listen to me since I've got my own prejudices both in and out of the game...we all do apparently. Thank you for reading.....you may all return to bashing Macmarz now, Mac...over to you.

 

[Passions]

So far Mokk's reply seems to be the best and as such...I'm done with trying to find a little justice. He's right this whole calling "Witch" on anyone we don't like or have reason to feel envious of is counter-productive and self-destructive. I won't be with Peterli's people anymore for economic reasons and they're as simple as time vs. money. I can make more on my own farming with my THF than I can in a party camping an HNM for hour upon hour only to lose the claim to someone who brought a bot or was lucky enough to have lower latency. I know how you all feel about them but I still hold with what I said at the beginning...and if that's not good enough reason to leave them alone how about this - If they don't harass you, MPK you, insult you or make racist statements to or about you....your the one who's the problem when you do these things to them. But don't listen to me since I've got my own prejudices both in and out of the game...we all do apparently. Thank you for reading.....you may all return to bashing Macmarz now, Mac...over to you.

you basically gave up what you were fighting for. that's weak man. Why is everything always about the money? Where did the fun of the game go? It seems no one does anything anymore that doesn't involve money or there personal bennifit somehow.

If they were your "Friends" wasn't hanging out with them enough, why does it have to be about money or losing claim whatever. maybe you can make more money farming with your thf or crafting, but its supposed to be a enjoyable time with your "friends" that makes you go there. this just makes me feel like you were lying about calling them "friends" because now your ditching them because YOU dont like the image your getting and you can't change these select fews views and so your taking it up the ass and giving in.

But thats just my view

 

[Mokk]

Aside from stretching my legs from not posting or having reason to the only point i really want to make is that after having been there, done that, and now being on the outside looking in putting effort into the futile act of posting your dissatisfaction on here as opposed to putting the petty crap aside and grouping together to get something done or changed seems a bit silly. Less and less i see the board being put to the use as i imagine it was intended for as a community tool and more and more it's simply becoming a sounding board for the frustration that is Quetz and FFXI in general. Everyone would benefit from this change in thought but that's just my 2 cents, make of it what you will.

 

[Padington]

I just see no reason to keep fighting with alot of people who will never stop to think before spewing another load of bigotry and bile all over the boards. Economic realities are unfortunately too big a part of playing this game to totally ignore them...and there's a time factor involved too. I've got to level THF because you can't let the pursuit of gil take precedence over the pursuit of XP...which I've done the last few weeks much to my embarassment. I won't stop telling people that all this "let's get the evil gil-sellers" business is a load of counter-productive crap and doesn't benefit anyone. I can't think of anything else to say that isn't alot of negative invective directed and the people who lead the whole fascist movement on our server, and that's been done to death. I also find my own enjoyment of the game goes up when I let people rant and rave like maniacs without my input....If there is any truth to social darwinisim they will destroy themselves eventually. Thank you.

 

[Padington]

My bad...almost forget something. Passions...I wasn't having any fun with them anymore for a variety of reasons 95% of which involved the never-ending rain of abuse and scorn being heaped upon me by anyone and everyone with an axe to grind. I also think that maybe they are better off without me since they've gotten alot of new Chinese LS members and I'm the only one who can't speak Chinese in the mornings....they seem more comfortable with them honestly. I don't blame them for being more comfortable with their own countrymen seeing as how badly the majority of English-speaking players have treated them...not all...but most.

 

[Kyle]

Well glad to see you've been listening to the voices or reason. Any of you have a problem with the abuse, don't help the gil sellers. That simple.

 

[Padington]

Reason never entered into it sadly. It was more a matter of me defending people who didn't entirely deserve the abuse. But....ForgottenShadows (ie RedSky) now they deserver everything they get. They did everything you all claimed and a whole lot of things you have no idea about lol....

 

[Anttaru]

Anttaru, you're missing the whole point of what people are saying. No one is giving a shit about economy and you're the only one bringing it up. You're flat-out ignoring everything people are saying because they used the word economy in one post, despite the fact that it has a completely different context than what you're thinking.

The rest of us are saying we don't like the means to which they make gil, not what they do with it. You're coming off as trying to justifying people helping them MPK, steal or cheat other people out of gil because then the gil sellers get a slightly smaller take. If they played like legitimate players and didn't cheat to get their money, very few people would actually care what they did with their money and it's very minor impacts on the economy, so all of your economy points are irrelevant anyways.

No Bajaratt, I fully understand everyone's view. But you see, i have come to peace with some sellers to a point where they never attempt to MPK my party. I have mentioned this before in another thread.

I ignore no one, and do not hate either side i stand inbetween.

All i speak of is, how to eliminate RMT (Which involves no MPK)
Is this not what everyone wants ?

When 2 NA shells get into an MPK feud, it lasts a short while until a truce is called. When the same type of gang war is created between an NA, JP or Chinee shell (jus made that up) a Racist war breaks out, and we have JP hating NA and NA hating JP and Chinese hating NA and JP and it goes on for a very long time.

Sellers MPK'd locals, and locals MPK'd sellers, Who's to say who MPK'd who first ? Gil sellers are mainly hated for working for IGE, and Gil sellers seemingly dislike those who poke and cast stones at them. Many believe they are what they are, and they eventually are abused by it.

For one to avoid the MPK from an opposing enemy, one must simply be kind and offer no MPK before hand, and trust me, it works. This eliminates the means of them disrespecting your party. Of coarse if your party did the same, the only price you'd pay is being bowed to and waved at by the gil sellers.

Chinese Gil seller in particular do feel like they are treated as animals on a popular degree. They have been called names, and have been attacked by people they don't know. This of coarse will cause war. And i see how they jump at any oppertunity to make friends when given the chance. Once i was up by Ifrits coldren in a LS with the LS leader and bumped into a bunch a sellers that knew me, they then asked my LS leader for a pearl. These sellers never wanted anything but friendship, and in other LS's i know they would respect the rules. I know they want change.

If IGE is forced to stop selling gil, we'd definatly be waving goodbye to our Gil seller friends we have made to counter the entire case.

Everything i speak of is so easy to pull off, the only hard part is to get others to understand and make it happen. An entire server utlizing this method of approach, would see so many issues resolved. All FFXI servers utlizing this method of approach would force IGE to focus only on their other MMORPG.

I'd rather be questioned about what i have spoke about here.

 

[MacMarz]

So.. the main issue really goes back to post 1... a general lack of respect, for whatever reason.

In the past year or so it has been intresting to watch new and older players acsend to high lvls... It seems that as soon as most players hit 70.... they change. They become selfish little children all reciting the Little Nemo catch phrase, "Mine!" Then they start to align thamself with other high lvl people and conform to their every whim. "So and so LS leader says xyz.. so it must be true... at least it's true as long as I can get my share of the drops."

Right or wrong.. I have spamed voke on NM's with or without your so called sellers. But I have also gone out of my way to help people out for no financial gain. Usually refusing payment if offered (unless by JP that may be offended). I like helping in all sorts of quests and metting new people.... and I always raise soeone ar ask if they need a high lvl raise when I walk past a dead body. I am an arrogant shit stirring SOB that has to always be right for sure.... but I'm also usually helpful and courteous to people (asshats not included unless it's just an off asshat day). My hope is that these people will "pay-it-forward" at some point and not turn into some high lvl primadona.

As far as hate the gill sellers... here is the dirty little secrect i guess....

WHO SELLS THE MOST GIL?

Obviously the lvl 75+ people with multiple high lvl jobs and crafts that seem to have everything. They have so much gil that 60mil+ for a Kraken club frees up gil space.

How many high lvl people seem to already have everything.. yet still must take in 10-100mil a week? Where does all that gil go I ask you? To IGE etc. of course.... Think about it.

 

[MacMarz]

Guess that hit too close to home, lol