Firefighters = Mercenaries only - Pay to spray?

[Lucki]

I'm sure that if the FD wanted to go that route of documenting consent, they could easily find a place to put an 8x12 clipboard in their firetrucks...

 

[Tomasello]

See, unless the FD carries around a clipboard or something to hold forms to prove the homeowner gave written consent to have the fire put out (which I'm sure they don't) them trying to put a lien, or try to collect on that money by some other means, would easily be countered by even a half-witted attorney. Unless there's overwhelming witnesses (not including the firemen) or a written consent form, as i stated earlier, Cranick could easily walk out of paying that bill by claiming he never gave authorization to have the fire put out.

Why would you even give the the owner a choice of whether he wants the fire put out or not? That's the flaw in your logic. The fire itself is a DANGER TO THE PUBLIC and could easily spread to the entire neighborhood or worse start a massive forest fire. That's like giving a battered wife the option of whether she wants to press charges against her dirtbag husband or not. At some point the GREATER GOOD comes before an individuals right to make stupid decisions that can endanger others.

 

[Dancingweapon]

I'm kinda surprised it hasn't been said already but...

your mum gets paid to spray!

yah, I went there.

 

[Hexx]

Why would you even give the the owner a choice of whether he wants the fire put out or not? That's the flaw in your logic. The fire itself is a DANGER TO THE PUBLIC and could easily spread to the entire neighborhood or worse start a massive forest fire. That's like giving a battered wife the option of whether she wants to press charges against her dirtbag husband or not. At some point the GREATER GOOD comes before an individuals right to make stupid decisions that can endanger others.

Why? Having worked in insurance for about 6 years now, there are times when people would rather see it all go up in flames and get a nice little paycheck from the insurance company than to see it all get saved Tom. It's not flawed logic, its human nature to want something new and shiny. The fact that your existing possession gets destroyed and leads to something newer and better is what causes some people to even commit fraud for fucks sake. You talk about the greater good as if everyone in this world wants to risk their livelihood for the sake of some poor sap who was too stupid/lazy/ignorant to fall in line with everyone else and pay for the protection that could have saved his home. I'll be you anything had any one of these firefighters lifted a finger to help they would have lost their job, and to be honest, now is not the time to be risking a stable steady job.

@ Lucki: I dont know if you have seen just how packed in those fire trucks can get man, plus in the rush of it all, I don't know if they would even remember to have that form signed......

Edit: Simplest way I can put it is this: think of this as insurance to help keep your home or other property from burning up. Just like insurance, you cant choose to go around without it, and then the moment that something happens you want to run to the nearest insurance agent to buy coverage for something that just happened. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[Lucki]

@ Lucki: I dont know if you have seen just how packed in those fire trucks can get man, plus in the rush of it all, I don't know if they would even remember to have that form signed......

While probably not the same truck they use, you can still get the idea.

Seems like they have plenty of room to throw the clipboard on the front dash. The negligent homeowner would have plenty of time to read/sign the document while the firefighters assess the situation and setup to fight the blaze.

 

[Tomasello]

but....we do that already.

No, the husband gets arrested whether the wife wants him to be or not. She doesn't have a choice.

 

[Tyrath]

No, the husband gets arrested whether the wife wants him to be or not. She doesn't have a choice.

She has a choice on whether to press charges or not.

 

[Lucki]

I think you're both right. The husband gets arrested (sometimes both, I think it depends on the state), but the courts can't make spouses testify against each other.

 

[Tomasello]

Why? Having worked in insurance for about 6 years now, there are times when people would rather see it all go up in flames and get a nice little paycheck from the insurance company than to see it all get saved Tom. It's not flawed logic, its human nature to want something new and shiny. The fact that your existing possession gets destroyed and leads to something newer and better is what causes some people to even commit fraud for fucks sake.

So when I decide I don't like my house anymore I can just light a match and call it a day. Wait that's boring, how about I buy 50 pounds of dynamite and just blow my house up. Who cares about endangering the public its my house.

You can't give people a choice if they want their fires put out. It's too dangerous. Once a house is a blaze, unless your a firefighter, you can't control the fire. Who gives a fuck what the homeowner wants? They really shouldn't have a say in the matter when it's something potentially dangerous to others.

 

[Morcheeba]

Had this fire actually turned into a wildfire and caused massive damage, the town would probably sue the bejesus out of Cranick for at least negligence and at most arson. He started it after all

It's the responsibility of a FD to fight fires. If the man called in the fire to report it was out of his control and they turned a blind eye over $75 to put it out while still possible that's their negligence if it spreads costing far more than it would have.

They choose to ignore the possibility of the man not being equipped to handle a fire that could potentially do major damage. IMO, legalities or not, it's on them. They're the professionals, it's what they're paid to do, that's what they're here for, that's what they swear to do.

*it's not breaking the law to light fires, and he'd done his do-diligence calling it in before it did spread to property outside his own. They HAD the heads up, if it had caused more damage, to bad so sad. That's what everyone elses $75 a year goes towards. It's irresponsible regardless of who you want to point the blame at.

 

[Lucki]

It's the responsibility of a FD to fight fires. If the man called in the fire to report it was out of his control and they turned a blind eye over $75 to put it out while still possible that's their negligence if it spreads costing far more than it would have.

They choose to ignore the possibility of the man not being equipped to handle a fire that could potentially do major damage. IMO, legalities or not, it's on them. They're the professionals, it's what they're paid to do, that's what they're here for, that's what they swear to do.

They showed up when his more responsible neighbor called about it spreading to his property. They were there to keep it under control (for the neighbor anyways).

edit: And if you really want to get technical about it, their mission statement is "The mission of the South Fulton Fire Department is to protect the lives and property of its citizens, and provide good public relations through fire safety education to all businesses and schools."

Dude isn't a citizen of South Fulton

 

[Dejavu]

It is the responsibility of the fire department to fight fires IN THEIR OWN COUNTY this program is a voluntary pay for it something is better than nothing program. The other city has no responsibility to the situation. This man has no more right to their FD than residents of FL have to the LAPD.

Simple solution to this problem stop offering the 75$ service... then everyone in that county is fucked no matter what.

 

[Morcheeba]

They showed up when his more responsible neighbor called about it spreading to his property. They were there to keep it under control (for the neighbor anyways).

You're missing the point. The 'wait' until it hits the neighbours property and starts causing damage is risking increased damage. It's irresponsible, and shameful that the FD calls itself such.

Dejavu - they were on site. On site and still chose to turn a cheek, that's just ridiculous. I don't care if the man owed $2500 to the FD, or $25 M for that matter. As a Fire Department, it's a downright shame to have reacted in such a manner. Just pathetic.

Too much fucking politics behind simple human decency. Honest to god everyone is driven by that filthy paper.

 

[Lucki]

You're missing the point. The 'wait' until it hits the neighbours property and starts causing damage is risking increased damage. It's irresponsible, and shameful that the FD calls itself such.

From the article in the OP:

They did, however, come out when Cranick's neighbor -- who'd already paid the fee -- called 911 because he worried that the fire might spread to his property. Once they arrived, members of the South Fulton department stood by and watched Cranick's home burn; they sprang into action only when the fire reached the neighbor's property.

The increased damage is probably only a couple bucks in grass seed.

 

[Lucki]

Also:

By CHRIS MENEES
Staff Reporter
Paulette Cranick of South Fulton says she doesn’t hold a grudge.
She’s also ready for life to return to normal.
She and her husband, Gene, lost their home on Buddy Jones Road near South Fulton the afternoon of Sept. 29 after a fire from some burning trash spread to a garage and eventually to their home.
City officials have indicated the property owner was not a paying member of the rural fire subscription service offered to county residents by the City of South Fulton, which resulted in the city’s fire department not responding to their home.
Mrs. Cranick, 67, told The Messenger this morning that she and her husband are currently living in a 37-foot recreational vehicle, with amenities, on their property and are uncertain about their future plans.
She said she and her husband are taking things one day at a time and are waiting for insurance funds. However, she said they did not have enough coverage and insurance won’t cover all of their loss.
A fund to assist the Cranicks has been established at Heritage Bank in Fulton.
Mrs. Cranick said she and her husband did not seek all the national media attention their situation has been getting in recent days. “It just came here,” she said, adding she has heard from people throughout the U.S. and in many foreign countries.
“I’m ready to get back to normal,” she added.
Mrs. Cranick said she holds no grudge against the City of South Fulton or the South Fulton Fire Department.
“We are pursuing this in order to get that ruling (on rural fire coverage) changed,” she said. “We’re not the first person this has ever happened to and we probably won’t be the last.
“It’s not those boys’ (the firefighters’) fault. They had to do what the boss tells them to do,” she added.
Mrs. Cranick said it was an oversight that she and her husband did not pay their $75 rural fire subscription fee this year. They have paid in the past.
“We got the letter that it was due,” she said. “We were heading out to Lake Wappapello (in Missouri) that day and we stuck the mail in the camper and then forgot all about it. It was an oversight on our part. We did not refuse to pay.”
Mrs. Cranick said she also received a follow-up phone call from the City of South Fulton indicating they had not yet paid their rural fire subscription fee back during the enrollment period. She said she reminded her husband, who is retired from Goodyear and now works part-time for a farmer, but in the middle of other activities, it was put aside and, “I thought he’d get to it tomorrow.”
“You don’t expect things like this to happen, so you always procrastinate,” she said.
Staff Reporter Chris Menees may be contacted by e-mail at [email protected].

Published in The Messenger 10.08.10

http://www.nwtntoday.com/news.php?viewStory=47183

 

[Morcheeba]

I read the article and I'm also aware they didn't place blame themselves on the firefighters. I however have said and am saying, HAD that fire gotten out of control which is possible, fire is a very unpredictable and dangerous thing that is sometimes beyond a FD's ability, it would have been on FD imo. They of all people should know how incredibly dangerous fire can be, and that it's plainly irresponsible on their part as they are the TRAINED PROFESSIONALS on site. Not the 60 yr old guy who needs to burn his fire.

Shit think of all the 'what if's'. Dude, meth lab his son is poorly trying to rig together in the basement to make quick cash, or a poorly maintained oil tank that hasn't been used or even looked at in centuries. Do you get where I'm going with this?

They didn't properly 'assess' the situation. They turned the other cheek over $75 and the potential for a lot more damage was there and with it was the potential for the FD to not have the means either.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

that's my stand on it all.

 

[Lucki]

They didn't properly 'assess' the situation. They turned the other cheek over $75 and the potential for a lot more damage was there and with it was the potential for the FD to not have the means either.

They most certainly did assess the situation. They assessed that his neighbor paid the fee, and were standing by incase it reached his property. It did, they put it out. You may not like how they do things in TN, but as it stands, that's how it's being done.

You may look at it as the FD turned a blind eye over $75. I see it as the guy forgot to pay his $75, and got burned

 

[Hexx]

Whether he forgot or not, fact is he did not pay. Your insurance carrier, utility provider, cell phone carrier, (insert other service provider), does not care that you forgot, if you missed your due date to pay your service tends to get cancelled. Same applies for this case. Its $75 you pay once a year, with a little foresight, you can easily mail the payment a week before its due and not have to worry about it for another year. What most of you seem to forget, and it has already been said several times here, is that if they had sprung into action even though the Cranicks had not paid, they would have set a precedent and would have been forced to spring into action for everyone, regardless of their participation in the program.

 

[Morcheeba]

They could have dealt with any precedents after the fact. Make it known that ALL residents that receive assistance from the neighbouring county FD WILL be billed and failure to pay would result in jail time, community service, or the court has your wages docked, seizure of property. Make it effective the following year. No exceptions.

Or remove all assistance as Dejavu and others had mentioned.

 

[Hexx]

They could have dealt with any precedents after the fact. Make it known that ALL residents that receive assistance from the neighbouring county FD WILL be billed and failure to pay would result in jail time, community service, or the court has your wages docked, seizure of property. Make it effective the following year. No exceptions.

Or remove all assistance as Dejavu and others had mentioned.

Ouch, that seems like a greater evil Cheebs, but you also gotta remember that legislating this, enacting the change, and then enforcing it also cost additional money. Chances are this rule was set in place the way it was because it was also cost effective.