Gimp mages vs. melees

[shmedly]

Well I'm a blm that's working his way through the ranks. Gear is expensive and so are some spells. Granted, prices have dropped considerably, but for newb players such as myself I have to farm for weeks just to buy NQ items. Maybe i'm seeking at the wrong times or maybe i suck and no one wants to pt with me lol, either way, getting invites is damn tough at times. i've sat for days, 3-6 hours a day without an invite, just like melee and unfavored jobs. I hear complaints that Blm's don't MB. Well you're the DD's, figure out YOUR SC and fill me in on what it is and i'll use the right spell, and also be kind to your blm and set your macro to let them know when it's about to start... Nothing is more frustrating than starting to cast xxx spell with xxx cast time and having your DD's do their skillchain and you can't cast the MB. You want stun? Cool i need Dark skills ups... We don't have a RDM? fine i'll enfeeble a little too. Work it out with me, don't just expect that I know everything about all situations. I haven't been through all these areas on multiple jobs on the way to level 75... I'm willing to take feedback, but be constructive and don't just say "you suck"...

All of you who have been playing for so many years have forgotten what it's like to pick this game up for the first time. Did you know every little nuance to the game when you first started?? well did you? I highly doubt it. If you're so damn good at being a mage job then why don't you mentor someone in your shell? You have a few choices on the matter... don't invite them... mentor them... ignore them... I'm guessing that some of you think you are the elite of the elite players and are above a couple of those options and you'd just rather complain about gimp players. The game is built around being a cohesive team to fight mobs. The more you help your team the more you help yourself.

 

[Claxton]

The problem lies with Gods having far better melee items than mage items. Hell, most HNMs have better Melee items than mage items.

 

[meeze]

The problem lies with Gods having far better melee items than mage items. Hell, most HNMs have better Melee items than mage items.

and melee are pretty damn worthless on anything besides lolhydra.

 

[Myrrh]

This is why i take great pride in doing my best in endgame. I try to be at most events. I don't complain about getting gear through the shell(I'll joke about it but not cry). Aside from health issues and my fucked up family. I don't try to leech off endgame shells and try to earn it. That's why it makes me sick to see spoiled whms in endgame shells. I don't care how bad you need one. Giving them everything cause they bitch and moan doesn't make it right.

 

[Skaw]

The problem lies with Gods having far better melee items than mage items. Hell, most HNMs have better Melee items than mage items.

The problem is giving Mages gear to make them more powerful furthers the gap between the two archetypes against the one aspect where theres a huge imbalance. The very same aspect Black Mages like to cry about helping with in the first place.

 

[Stouter]

Its the same in exp parties. If the RDM suck, people are affraid to tell them they suck, because there's no other RDM lfg. So they just think "Oh well, as long as he refreshes me...". If a melee suck, on the other hand, they can kick him and invite almost anyone else.

I remember one merit party I had as brd, we had a godawful rdm. He dc'ed, and someone was close to merit. For about 10 mobs - flies and imps - I used paeon V and march or paeon IV. HP was never an issue, we killed just as fast as with the worthless rdm.

I also remember booting a Rdm based on their performance during a trial period in a certain end game shell I'm in. We didn't and still don't have an abundance of rdm's, but we sure don't need one that's completely worthless.

 

[Romper]

Edit: Its the same in exp parties. If the RDM suck, people are affraid to tell them they suck, because there's no other RDM lfg. So they just think "Oh well, as long as he refreshes me...". If a melee suck, on the other hand, they can kick him and invite almost anyone else.

I told Journeybell she was the shittiest RDM I had ever seen and it got me kicked from EXP party as PLD. I don't have much experience in end game because like BLMs PLD doesn't get parties yet wanted to tank every big mob. So I threw in the hat and said forget this. I think you're right though there are mages that slack off and just don't bother to do anything from what I saw or lagged a little in what they did. Although some owned at what they did but some just slacked a little.

 

[Stouter]

The problem is giving Mages gear to make them more powerful furthers the gap between the two archetypes against the one aspect where theres a huge imbalance. The very same aspect Black Mages like to cry about helping with in the first place.

This huge imbalance is more a perception of the ignorant than anything else. What HNM is a pimped Blm going to outdamage a pimped melee on? One where the melee takes a damage penalty and the blm doesn't, maybe.

Can't give whm or rdm better gear because it makes them even better healers than drg/whm?

 

[Skaw]

The imbalance lies more in the damage/tp ratios.

Black Mage will always do 10% on spells that do damage, unless the damage is entirely resisted.

Show me a Melee job that can push out rounds of continuous high damage while giving out only 10% TP.

 

[Firestreak]

My damage is the same on a level 1 mob as it is on a level 500 mob. That's why melee shine on low level merit party mobs and BLMs shine on high level HNM. All that changes is the resistance.

 

[Dagoat]

RDMes... RDMes have an easy time too

Dam I must really suck at being rdm lol I can go a week looking for party and not get a one invite lol. But then again it could be the time I am on too 6am to 12pm est unless dynamis day then I am sleeping on the morning to go on run before work.

lfg when you are /anon fucking sucks I have do that way to often I learned ya nerver get a party that way just a little fyi.

P.S. Uzor Just let me know if you want me out of the dynamis shell don't want to be thought of as leeching off anyone for gear or anything like that

 

[mdkuser]

My damage is the same on a level 1 mob as it is on a level 500 mob. That's why melee shine on low level merit party mobs and BLMs shine on high level HNM. All that changes is the resistance.

well said.

 

[mdkuser]

The problem with mages, and what I hate about them, is that they can leech in end-game shells. They're considered needed jobs, and can thus suck horribly, and still get rewards for it because of the simple fact they're needed.

Its like, most BLMes just do like this:

1) Check monster elemental weakness
2) Check monster HP level
3) Gauge TP levels of melees
4) cast Thunder IV

WHMes just casying Cure V, and still get to stay, because they are NEEDED

RDMes just casting Refresh, because its NEEDED

Mages can slack a lot in end-game. They don't even have to be good. All they need to do, is LEECH of the linkshell. It sucks. I hate it. Melees, on the other hand, have to be really good just to get anywhere in end-game. They need the very best equipment just for a chance to be in the main alliance. And THF's are just abused for TH, meaning as soon as a THF gets TH3 or TH4, the others will be looked over.

BLMes, RDMes and WHMes can really slack off and suck, and they don't even need good gear to get in to a end-game shell. That's really unfair to the melees, don't you think?

Seriously, end-game shells need to do something about this. Tell your mages to fuck off if they need to suck. It hurts my eyes to see RDMes I know suck horribly with good end-game gear. Don't give them this untill they've proven they can play their job even decently. RDM isn't all about Refresh, WHM isn't all about Cure V. BLM isn't only about Thunder IV. If your BLM can't stun worth shit, tell him to go screw a goat. Tell all your sucky mages to go screw goats.

It reminds me when we started GTC dynamis shells, and pchan was the only rdm with blm sub ( you cam whm main uzor ^^). All other went /whm, basically saying they dont wanna risk their lives casting sleepga. For a long time we only had one rdm sleeper and the other just went in the tank pt and refresh wores. Dynamis goes better now when every job is doing what they have to do.

 

[K. Ishitar]

I can only imagine with Uzor's original statement how hard it would be for a 75bst as its first job seeking an endgame shell >_> with just okay gear in comparison to the other melee with top gear

 

[Khali]

hehehe i've seen mages that never attempt to MB the SC. I've had parties where we'd darkness all day... But what i see after it is thunder IV.. not even an attempt at Bliz IV.

and for whoever said that HNM mobs and Gods drop stuff more for melee than mages... sure.. why not? Mages are gonna outdamage DDers anyways... why would they give y'all even more stuff to make your spells powerful.. Next thing you know... y'all are gonna drop all melee from god shells and turn them into manaburn, lol. Even with all those melee items from gods... y'all still have to not 'overnuke' because you'll still take hate... so what's the problem?

 

[Beka]

lfg when you are /anon fucking sucks I have do that way to often I learned ya nerver get a party that way just a little fyi.

Looking for party while ANON.. LOL

 

[Hmkiroko]

and for whoever said that HNM mobs and Gods drop stuff more for melee than mages... sure.. why not? Mages are gonna outdamage DDers anyways... why would they give y'all even more stuff to make your spells powerful.. Next thing you know... y'all are gonna drop all melee from god shells and turn them into manaburn, lol. Even with all those melee items from gods... y'all still have to not 'overnuke' because you'll still take hate... so what's the problem?

I over nuke on Genbu. Kiting him is fun.

In all honesty, I think all jobs should really take pride in their job whatever they do and try to be as well equipped as possible. They need to be able to perform up to the standards expected of them, and if they don't do that, then they aren't good, and it reflects poorly on their character.

As well, the attitude of the player needs to be there too. Lets say in an end-game shell, you have a decently equipped WHM that never shows up to anything, and then you have a poorly equipped one that shows spunk and is enthusiastic about participating. Which would you rather have? If you can't rely on the person, they shouldnt be a part of the team.

 

[Khali]

that's what i mean HMK.. you can over nuke a mob.. but our best bet at dmg is going all out 300 tp, with all abilities used as a DD.. and you can overnuke and take that hate back in a second.. why would mages need more armor to make them even more powerful, lol. We DDers are still trying to catch up to y'all if that's even possible, lol.

Only thing DDers have on mages is that we don't get magic aggro. Seen so many mages die at Ulli camp because of magic aggro, and i just sit there and laugh.

 

[Stouter]

The imbalance lies more in the damage/tp ratios.

Black Mage will always do 10% on spells that do damage, unless the damage is entirely resisted.

Show me a Melee job that can push out rounds of continuous high damage while giving out only 10% TP.

Build TP on other mobs and SC on the big mob, common tactics, and keeps those blms with 330 elemental magic from getting 50% and 90% resists on their nukes with MB accuracy. It also has them doing more than an average of 250 damage for each of those 10 TP they give.

On several big mobs TP given isn't that much of a concern, it's being inside AoE range. When the mob has TP regen that gives them 100 TP in 30 seconds without making contact with anyone or being hit, TP given is a moot point.

It reminds me when we started GTC dynamis shells, and pchan was the only rdm with blm sub ( you cam whm main uzor ^^). All other went /whm, basically saying they dont wanna risk their lives casting sleepga. For a long time we only had one rdm sleeper and the other just went in the tank pt and refresh wores. Dynamis goes better now when every job is doing what they have to do.

I can't believe rdm are too afraid of sleepga, I'll toss it out constantly as blm in dynamis, and follow it up with a sleepga II after 20 seconds or so. I rarely die as a result of sleeper's hate, but that gets chalked up to everyone else doing there job.

 

[Stouter]

that's what i mean HMK.. you can over nuke a mob.. but our best bet at dmg is going all out 300 tp, with all abilities used as a DD.. and you can overnuke and take that hate back in a second.. why would mages need more armor to make them even more powerful, lol. We DDers are still trying to catch up to y'all if that's even possible, lol.

3 words: Get a Bard.

Melee with a brd can outdamage blm on almost any mob. That includes HNM's. Remember 5 minute Kirin? He's one of the highest level mobs in the game, you won't get a bigger melee damage penalty against anything except CoP wyrms. That was a bunch of pimped melee with bards pounding him down. Put 18 blms on Kirin and it would take them 20 minutes at least to take down a Kirin.