Gimp mages vs. melees

well it seems god shells and etc are in need of bards.. so most bards i see are with the mages... for refresh support. But i dunno.. could be different now.

Man.. i've done kirin with my best armor (poor mithra) and i can hardly touch kirin for any decent dmg for regular melee hits with sushi. What kind of armor did these DD have on ^.~

So what stout is saying.. is that we DDers are doomed without a brd. lol
 
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Pretty much. Bards are the key to ALOT of End-Game fights. Double March for Ninjas and Haste (tanking Faf), Double Ballad for Mages or NIN/DRK for big mobs, and Minuet for maximizing output on TP Burn fights like Hydra and Kirin of course with the Melee Burn setup.
 
Had trouble deciding if I should post or not, but since I haven't done anything on QCDN in a few weeks, what the hell, lol. (By the way I skimmed through most of these posts so I apologize if a lot of my stuff sounds redundant.)

Uzor is right, there are too many slacking mages out there who get way too much leeway and easy access to better things without having earned it. EXP parties are one thing, no one really cares much as long as the xp is nice and everyone stays alive, but c'mon, HNMs and Gods actually require work and there are people out there who sit back and let everyone else's performance overshadow their lack of effort. I've eaten quite a few Chainspell Firaga III's from Suzaku because a BLM missed their place in the stun order (repeatedly).

As for overnuking, I'll admit I've had my fair share of wanting to stir things up hatewise. BLMs love to blow stuff up, myself included. I've become an experienced kiter of Kirin and Chlevnik (lolKS99 Behemoth). But I make sure to never endanger anyone else while doing so (and I don't do it TOO often, myself anyway). I've heard of BLMs overnuking Kirin or Behemoth and just freaking stand there after they've grabbed hate, just to get hit with Stonega IV or Meteor (and killing a handful of others in the process). Makes me sad to be associated with those people. But I try my best to stand out and do well as a Black Mage. I land every magic burst that I am able to and I almost never fail to stun when needed, but no one is 100% perfect.

I'm not going to delve much into the 'Who is better: Mages or Melee?' topic. I don't play BLM to try and outdamage everybody else (except to outdamage other BLMs in manaburns, lol. j/k) . I play it because I chose it as my first job and stuck with it, thought it was fun, and like the way the kickass AF2 looks.

Well, that about ends my rant. Firestreak and Hmkiroko, glad to see you defending the BLM side of this situation, you two are among the best ones out there that I know. Ajs is okay too I guess, but I'm better than he is. =P
 
Stouter said:
I can't believe rdm are too afraid of sleepga, I'll toss it out constantly as blm in dynamis, and follow it up with a sleepga II after 20 seconds or so. I rarely die as a result of sleeper's hate, but that gets chalked up to everyone else doing there job.
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Hmm lol ok, but i think you dont fear death, since mobs are very resistant to enfeeblings from BLM ( at least near the end of dynamis). I came only once as blm in dynamis and i would cast sleepga2+ES on a group already sleepgaed by a rdm, this is much safer and will work always. BLM dont have only to nuke stones either in dynamis. I can think of monk types we can try to stun/sleep when they 2hour, pld thf that we can drain/nuke, and silence mages mobs, (including bards!).
 
pakomen said:
100% agree with you Uzor.

HEY blm's in my LS's who don't have em yet! GO GET YOUR MERITS!!!

And for that matter, get Sea!

And then get your obis!

And then get your relaxing earring! And all that cool healing mp gear from assault to get you off your ass faster. Yes it's worth it.

I'm sick of outdamaging you by hundreds of points when I don't even have a sorcerer's ring!

This goes for the Japanese blm's I party with as well. There's something wrong when my Burst II beats your Burst II by 500 points of damage. Gimp knows no ethnicity. If you're a gimp mage, stop it! Go farm! Level bst and get rich and buy your HQ staves. Get your merits! Whatever! Just knock off the blm gimpness!
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Dude not everyone has time to do all that bullshit
 
Laubibent said:
Dude not everyone has time to do all that bullshit
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I have a wife, a kid, and a full-time job. Sundays and Wednesdays I have limbus. Sunday morning's I have dynamis. Thursdays I had CoP but since we beat it we're not just an event LS. And I also manage to squeeze in 7 assaults per week somehow. That alone is a tight schedule.

And I still managed to find time to every now and then kill a few hundred xzomits, phuabos, hpemdes, and euvhis.

This is part of being a blm. A big part. While most jobs can throw a lot of money at equipment, some of the most important blm gear is free. It just takes dedication. And luckily, blm can solo all of it.

How many other jobs wouldn't jump at the chance to up their damage on a certain day of the week by 10/20/30% for free?
 
usable sky gear for warrior: n.hands, n.feet, n.body, e.head, e.feet, m. hands, m.head, seiryu sword, byakkos axe, byakkos haidate, suzaku suneate, genbu kabuto, seiyru kote, kirins osode

usable sky gear for blm,whm,smn,brd: a.hands, a.feet, a.legs, genbu shield, kirins pole

im not trying to justify laziness of players, but this is the reason why ive always had a hard time trying to complain to someone about the way they play. i really believe that melee players(jobs) get more out of this game. i have a lot of respect for the mage core that show up to everything, even if they arent the best skilled.
 
galix said:
usable sky gear for warrior: n.hands, n.feet, n.body, e.head, e.feet, m. hands, m.head, seiryu sword, byakkos axe, byakkos haidate, suzaku suneate, genbu kabuto, seiyru kote, kirins osode

usable sky gear for blm,whm,smn,brd: a.hands, a.feet, a.legs, genbu shield, kirins pole

im not trying to justify laziness of players, but this is the reason why ive always had a hard time trying to complain to someone about the way they play. i really believe that melee players(jobs) get more out of this game. i have a lot of respect for the mage core that show up to everything, even if they arent the best skilled.
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There are some melee that get crap from sky as well. THF for instance.

N.Hands, N.Feet, N.Body

I think comparing WAR to mage is a lil bit unfair. Considering WAR gets ton more then most melee. However I would agree with your general point. BTW how you doing galix? :)
 
im great :) back in germany now and just waiting for my internet to go back up.. thanks for asking

true about thfs, but you have to look at what a thief can do with the game as opposed to be whm or brd player. i dont know any whms that are going to trio charbydis or bune. or use many of the end game farming techniques that are at a skilled thfs disposal. plus, 1 thf is as good as 5 thfs.

warrior 4tw :)
 
etchdog2000 said:
There are some melee that get crap from sky as well. THF for instance.

N.Hands, N.Feet, N.Body

I think comparing WAR to mage is a lil bit unfair. Considering WAR gets ton more then most melee. However I would agree with your general point. BTW how you doing galix? :)
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As a thf i've seen war's drk's and what have you get priority over me on n.abj's cause they do more dmg on the gods and im just their TH3 whore... (And leaders too lazy to even get me in pt at the end sometimes.)
 
Flameass said:
As a thf i've seen war's drk's and what have you get priority over me on n.abj's cause they do more dmg on the gods and im just their TH3 whore... (And leaders too lazy to even get me in pt at the end sometimes.)
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That's completle bullshit youre putting up with. Youre getting lower priotity on the ONLY items you can use in sky simply because someone has another job which incedentally can use 10x the stuff from sky you can. What are you doing staying with some group that uses you like that so blatantly? What reason is there for you to stay with a group that is essentially leeching off of you and your time and has been from the moment you first set foot in sky with almost no chance of getting said item you want because "another job can use it"? You're giving me the impression that the only chance you will ever get to get your abj is if ALL the other WAR and DRK or close to that have an abj and it goes to free lot. I apoligize if I jumped to conclusions but thats what it seems like your situation is.
 
Khajit said:
That's completle bullshit youre putting up with. Youre getting lower priotity on the ONLY items you can use in sky simply because someone has another job which incedentally can use 10x the stuff from sky you can. What are you doing staying with some group that uses you like that so blatantly? What reason is there for you to stay with a group that is essentially leeching off of you and your time and has been from the moment you first set foot in sky with almost no chance of getting said item you want because "another job can use it"? You're giving me the impression that the only chance you will ever get to get your abj is if ALL the other WAR and DRK or close to that have an abj and it goes to free lot. I apoligize if I jumped to conclusions but thats what it seems like your situation is.
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In reality, DRK doesnt get that much usable stuff either.(Though we do get more then THF) We get N.abj, E.abj, and W.abj.

Only good W.Abj that is actually used is W.Hands. E.Head is now the only one worth getting of E.abj, now that Amir Feet beat out E.Feet. And to even go a step further N.Hands can be replaced by AF+1 hands, or the NM gigas braclets.

So if you want the equipment that is not replaceable, DRK is stuck with the following:

N.Body
N.Feet
W.Hands
E.Head

So with all that DRK can wear 8 abj from sky. Really only 4 being usable when all said and done. I think you will find that alot of other jobs fall into this as well. As new equipment comes out, sky is becoming less and less worth it.

However I would tend to agree, whats the point of a THF doing sky if they are put at the back of the lists.
 
Khali said:
well it seems god shells and etc are in need of bards.. so most bards i see are with the mages... for refresh support. But i dunno.. could be different now.

Man.. i've done kirin with my best armor (poor mithra) and i can hardly touch kirin for any decent dmg for regular melee hits with sushi. What kind of armor did these DD have on ^.~

So what stout is saying.. is that we DDers are doomed without a brd. lol
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Yeah, and blms are doomed without ES (10 minute recast) or a MB on high level stuff such as kirin. Nothing like spending 1/3 of your MP to do 100 damage. As far as big fights, I don't see the point in blms getting a brd over melee. Double ballad is mediocre at best, 60 MP per minute, that's 600 MP over a 10 minute fight, not even 4 big nukes. Double Minuet, or Madrigal/Minuet on a melee party will produce better results.
 
Yeah, I think so, but ES+stun probably won't happen too often because Stun is one of those spells that you rarely have the luxury of preplanning on. It's usually an emergency reflex spell.
 
mdkuser said:
Hmm lol ok, but i think you dont fear death, since mobs are very resistant to enfeeblings from BLM ( at least near the end of dynamis). I came only once as blm in dynamis and i would cast sleepga2+ES on a group already sleepgaed by a rdm, this is much safer and will work always. BLM dont have only to nuke stones either in dynamis. I can think of monk types we can try to stun/sleep when they 2hour, pld thf that we can drain/nuke, and silence mages mobs, (including bards!).
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we use blms for sleeping in dynamis and me personally hardly get resisited.
 
Tride said:
we use blms for sleeping in dynamis and me personally hardly get resisited.
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Yeah, they don't get resisted a lot. Doesn't mean they're scared of it though.

I did meet a glitched PLD the other day. I casted 10 sleeps on him, never got slept. I even did ES + Sleep II, and he resisted that too ~.~
 
Pld have resist sleep job trait, which is why I like them being selected after the trouble mobs (smn + bst/pet) are dead, as well as the stones dead so the blms can nuke them down on invincible.

Blm has 230 base enfeebling, +10 from AF body, +10 from JSE head which costs 20k or so, +10 from JSE pants which are 500k I believe, plus the more expensive enfeebling torque/earring. Typical dynamis mobs resist about as much as normal T-VT beastmen. I have no issue sleeping mobs as blm, I know that 90% of them will be voked before they wake up, and I have stoneskin/blink/stun/other people with sleep to keep me alive.
 
Stouter said:
Pld have resist sleep job trait, which is why I like them being selected after the trouble mobs (smn + bst/pet) are dead, as well as the stones dead so the blms can nuke them down on invincible.

Blm has 230 base enfeebling, +10 from AF body, +10 from JSE head which costs 20k or so, +10 from JSE pants which are 500k I believe, plus the more expensive enfeebling torque/earring. Typical dynamis mobs resist about as much as normal T-VT beastmen. I have no issue sleeping mobs as blm, I know that 90% of them will be voked before they wake up, and I have stoneskin/blink/stun/other people with sleep to keep me alive.
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Yeah, I know thye do, but normally they don't resist me at all. Well, I do get resisted every now and then like once a month or so, but 10 times in a row, even with elemental seal, and others spamming sleep on it, I'd have to say it was glitched, lol.
 
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