GMs = useless...

[Panda]

But ya.. we are getting sick of their cheap shit and I am very tempted to getting a packet sniffer.

You are so full of confusion and contradiction, young padawan.

Just stoop to their level. If enough people in your LS know whats going on and have the same passion as you I'm sure that they would follow you in. Or like falsey said, try to rile the troops up and form another LS.

I mean like I said, bitching is fine and dandy, but this is an issue that needs to be nipped in the bud, and has a solution, not like other things in the game, such as the red mage thread. we can't go in and mpk all the red mages that suck in the game. nah'meen?

 

[Elemmire]

You are so full of confusion and contradiction, young padawan.

I've been that way all my life x.x

and the problem is what our LS leaders might think XD as far as I can see.. the entire LS is pretty much fine with us using a packet sniffer against the JP that do. And that'd be the only place I'd use it.. just to make things even against them, not to use it against people at like Poisonhand.. unless they are gilsellers >.>

 

[Panda]

then wheres the issue... go fuck em up, kid

 

[cohibuu]

the jps prolly save their lunch money and buy one and just send to everyone

 

[Garvin]

Go for it. You've pretty much covered most of the reasons I can't stand HNMs. The best part being that Squeenix announced not too long ago that you won't be punished for using a packet sniffer. Have fun.

 

[Panda]

(Open Question) How do you plan to deal with players who use packet sniffing?
(Sage Sundi)
If a player is using some type of packet sniffing tool they're still required to be present at the location to be able to do that like any other player, so at the moment we have no plans on pursuing to nullify this behaviour

 

[Sneakypants]

Pannda was making useless comments that were intended to rile people up. Those comments were less true than what I say, and just as unneeded. Ele was having a fairly decent conversation and it was interesting to read, and Pannda was making no addition except throwing eggs and trying to pick on a board member for no reason other than she feels she's unpopular and an easy target. END OF STORY. I simply felt it would be better to take her down a notch than to let everyone who's viewed as by some board members as unpopular get picked on for no reason at all except they are an easy target. You all know what direction that will lead us in.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got one.
Fire, it's not like you come way out of left field with your points or anything, but where some people make points, even if they have a bit of flame to them, they make them and move on. You come off like you are crafting every thought so carefully, so stubbornly, so dead on in some ways and dead wrong in others. It comes off demanding when people see that you seem to be dictating END OF STORY. Maybe some people don't think it's the end of the story, or that the discussion didn't need to go to where you took it.

I'm not saying I'm better than anyone here. Not by a long shot.
But this thread is like many that have your opinion. Your points seem to dictate, in a certain manner, finality, but only as it would seem to you. The end of the story, is in fact when people stop posting, and not when you say so. Nothing is because you say so, or because I say so, or Pannda...None of us are the end all be all. Let's just let the discussion continue, because it will if it will.

Speculating, this will be taken the wrong way, denied, dismissed, whatever...Take it how you may, but allow the discussion to follow its path. The moment any thread truly gets out of hand, what happens?
Answer: Pupusa will lock it and take any additional steps to remedy the situation. If he's out of town, it'll still eventually get dealt with.
Mountain - <Thank you for the offer, but I'll have to pass>
Mole hill - <Yes, please!>

^^ I realize the irony in that is that I have just made this even bigger, but I felt on a side note it needed attention, because this has happened plenty of times. I hate seeing open discussion stopped because someone thinks they have the smarts to decide when exactly it should stop...Conveniently after their last comments. :?



Anyway, I have agreed with things that Fire, Pannda and Ele said, as well as others. I still fall back to what's been said about SE needing to be the one to do something about it. They are the authority here, and the only people hurt by not enforcing the rules are SE and the honest people that play this game. If nothing is done, people will eventually get sick of it and leave. I am dreading end-game activities more and more because they seem to be plagued by these troubles, and it seems to be getting worse.
I mentioned that not doing anything about it is a cop out.

Look at the undue stress it causes for people that love this game, and that aren't trying to make a buck off it...People who have morals and that would stop before crossing over into immoral actions to achieve their goals. That's who SE is hurting, and they should take their customers seriously.

 

[Elemmire]

let's all go MPK gilsellers to take out frustrations! woot!!

 

[Firestreak]

Telling someone they are whining uselessly and then telling them they have "nothing to lose" according to what you read... it's not a question of sugarcoating but plainly throwing eggs. And now we're enforcing cheating, hmm...

Just to clarify, bad rep on QCDN does not always = bad rep in game. There are people who have a bad rep here because of in game, but no one who has a bad rep in game because of what they did here. The flame was about her posting as far as I know and the only contribution about her game abnormalities was a dispelled idea that she screwed Phraust out of a dagger that he'd already been outlotted on. This clearly doesn't qualify someone as a NM camper as having "nothing to lose" and time to go cheat.

The reality is, despite what you all think, unlike the JP WE WILL be punished for breaking the rules. It doesn't matter if we can find documented evidence, there is a clear double standard and there is no high authority we can reach beyond the GMs. I've seen JP stall. I've been in alliances that have been GM called and forced to kill because stalling is considered a "grief tactic" when we do it. What exactly are we supposed to do about it? Yes Sneakypants we can document and prove a double standard, we already have. And what do we do with this proof? Who do we send it to? Who is going to care? Nobody. What send it to Square Enix through their webpage and watch as we get no response at all? Been there, done that. The best thing we can do is just be vocal about it on the hope that if it becomes enough of public knowledge the people who matter will take notice of it. Maybe when they do questionares and polls of why so many FF players have gone to WoW, that'll be one of the answers.

 

[Sneakypants]

Yes Sneakypants we can document and prove a double standard, we already have. And what do we do with this proof?

.... .... Maybe when they do questionares and polls of why so many FF players have gone to WoW, that'll be one of the answers.

You're absolutely right. What will a business understand? Money.
When they start losing it, then they'll go back and give a shit about what customers said, but it will already be the end of an era.

Such a shame, considering they have every option to actually deal with this.

 

[Panda]

Telling someone they are whining uselessly

She was whining uselessly. I believe I cleared up what I meant by that, and I think Ele understands what I meant as well.

and then telling them they have "nothing to lose" according to what you read...

Well, in my opinion, (if its ok with you if i express it) if she is this upset about what is going on, and if she has the support that she says she does, she has nothing to lose. I mean the only people who are going to know what shes doing are people on qcdn, which is where my "you're not the most liked person" comment came from, and all they're going to do is flame her on the board, nothing to lose there, and the people in her linkshell who are helping her, who she says supports her, nothing to lose there. If she doesn't take action she's going to lose Behemoth. If she does take action, she may or may not get Behemoth. Nothing to lose. I know I didnt spell that out perfectly, but I think you can grasp it.

it's not a question of sugarcoating but plainly throwing eggs. And now we're enforcing cheating, hmm...

WTF do you mean by throwing eggs. Saying "STFU and do something about it" instead of "Hey, you should really do something about it, because complaining isn't going to help anything" is throwing eggs? Did I call her a dumb bitch or something in there? Did I miss something?

Enforcing cheating, yes. Where's your great solution to the problem, sugar.

This clearly doesn't qualify someone as a NM camper as having "nothing to lose" and time to go cheat.

No, but the Japanese using packet sniffers and constantly fucking up everyone else and making the game unfair to the people who play it honestly, and square's lack of problem resolution does. Thats the basis of my argument, man.

Not to mention I think you should STFU and let Elemirre fight her own damn battles. She seems to understand what I'm saying, and where I'm coming from. She didn't get all pissed off because I said something in a manner that wasn't Donna Reed style. I don't think she particularly cared for what I said or likes me for what I said, but she seems to be doing just fine holding a conversation about it without getting sand in her vagina because someone fucking disagrees with her. No one called you out here, fruit fucker. Get the fuck out of your house and go interact with people some more - maybe then you won't feel so obligated to talk shit over something that had nothing to do with you personally just to hear yourself think while you type.

 

[Svina]

This kinda thing don't happen on WoW =]

There are a few rare spawn "NM" type mobs but they're in contested areas also. So you not only need a big enough force to take these HNMs but a force big enough to ward off the attacking other-faction who also wants to kill this HNM. Now how's them for shits and giggles? =D

Though everything else you want, like the M. Abjuration Body and the A. Abjurations and all that good stuff are all found in instance dungeons. The real "uber leet" stuff. No one save ninja looters can really do anything underhanded, and most people who take on these raids go with highly trusted guild members and no one else. It's sort of like the 'sky' of WoW.

Anyway.

I am gonna say one thing about the whole packet sniffing and knowing about the spawn before it actually pops issue. This is for real, and I know this because shortly before I quit I started poking around the inner parts of FFXI (probably where I shouldn'tve been ;0)... anyway. The client stores all the mob info client side... this is why whenever there's an update and new mobs are added or changed, there's also a patch. Mob info is all stored locally. This includes it's last death location (X,Y), it's flag (spawned or not?) and it's HP and spawn barrier (basically the limits of where it's allowed to spawn on the map). You can access this data using a standard hex editor with little difficulty (GJ SE for storing the mob's actual ascii name near it's data in-game). Now this is speculation but if the mobs are stored locally, how does the game know when to "pop" them? Well it's simple. The server simply sends out a packet to every client saying "spawn this mob" and voila... it spawns. When you recieve the packet, that is. If the JP were to get this packet sooner, they would indeed see it pop first, without a doubt. The client actuall will not let you target it using the GUI unless it's registered in your client as "spawned". Meaning, whoever recieves the packets first usually wins the claim, USUALLY. Someone might be experiencing some network lag when this spawn happens and it might take longer to arrive, meaning someone else might have a chance at getting it first. Network holdups and lag happen all the time, though some are mere MS of elapsed time.

Also, I dug around searching for the magic "pointer" that pointed to what you currently had targetted... this was pathetically easy to find also using said hex editor. So in effect you could find the pointer represented by the <t> command and set it to any of the mobs in that list I was talking about. And <t> would permanently be frozen to that value. All mobs have an ID which is an 8-byte integer, which means if you can find the section of data where the mob's name is, you can also get that ID, and plug it into the target pointer, and well you get the idea.

If you were to spam a macro at that point like "/ja Provoke <t>" it would be forced to point to that mob, but nothing would happen since it can't be targetted by the client. However, the split second it shows up as "spawned", BAM, voked.

This is one way to go about it... I don't know about an actual packet sniffer working the same way but it's definitel possible, that someone has found a way to send packets to the network telling their client to voke something htat's invisible and getting an error in return (until it pops), but I'm not so sure since the packets are encoded in such a way that you'd need to know the right hash key to decode it. Which would be difficult unless you were an actual developer of the network code. (BTW, if you don't understand what i'm talking about, then dont worry about it, basically this means its hard to decode these packets!)

Anyway, this is all I figured out in the last few weeks before I quit. I tested it, it worked. I was able to beat claims on NMs using DIA sometimes, only beaten by JPs on occasion who were either using the same method to claim or some faster method. I won't say any more since I've said enough, believe me or not, but this is all truth. JP do cheat a lot more than you'd like to think. This one guy, Era, in Boyahda Tree even admitted to it one day while i was counter camping Aquarius against me. I could never beat him to a claim, and I'm assuming this is how he always knew where to find his target.

 

[Elemmire]

I figured that's how you got Aquarius so much for your time you camped it XD haha! ya.. I've known of the "packet sniffing" kinda thing for awhile.. but didn't know the details and didn't want to believe it was true.. guess there's nothing to do but fight fire with fire.

 

[Svina]

Well no this was more closer to the time I quit, and I wasn't camping Aquarius around that time so all the claims I got on it were more or less legit =P

 

[Elemmire]

ahh.... hmmm teach a newb your old tricks? yes? please? it's to beat out the asshole JP players that need a good swift kick in the.. well you know where ^^ hehehe I don't really play around with client info much.. as I fear I'll screw something up.. I just take a look at it for kicks at times

 

[Svina]

Yeah playing around with it can freeze your computer (i.e. messin up the wrong memory addresses <_<), umm as far as aquarius goes he spawns around the tree always, and theres 4 sides he can possibly spawn on. He basically pops in place of another robber crab but its not necessarily one ofo the pops around the tree either (theres 4 that pop around the perimeter also...or was it 3?) there's 2 that pop in the pool off to the side, and 3 that pop off near the waterfall. The one on the fall itself is not a placeholder. They respawn 16 minutes after death and one might spawn as Aquarius within 6 hours of his last death. He spawns 1-6 hrs always, and chance of popping in place of another crab goes up by a % every 15 minutes, that % increase is exponential so it's like (.2%, .4%, .8%, 1.6%) and so on. He comonly spawns the most around the 2-3 hr mark but there have been times he waited till the last 15 minutes. After 6 hours his pop chance is basically 100% in other words.

You need to keep track of all the crab's death times and next possible spawn... and pick a corner where you can see two of the possible pop spots, this gives you a 50% chance of seeing him before your competition. Doing it solo is kinda tricky like this since you lower your chances, but also have a higher shot at getting a big money drop all to yourself (which for me was roughly 1/3 by the time i quit camping him) Camp it with a partner on the opposite corner and you can rest assured you'll always see the spawn. The next challenge is claiming it first.

 

[yanzi]

...What exactly are we supposed to do about it? Yes Sneakypants we can document and prove a double standard, we already have. And what do we do with this proof? Who do we send it to? Who is going to care? Nobody. What send it to Square Enix through their webpage and watch as we get no response at all? Been there, done that. The best thing we can do is just be vocal about it on the hope that if it becomes enough of public knowledge the people who matter will take notice of it. Maybe when they do questionares and polls of why so many FF players have gone to WoW, that'll be one of the answers.

stop camping HNMs or stop playing ffxi. go to WoW and dominate the japanese who play it. :lol:

 

[Svina]

stop camping HNMs or stop playing ffxi. go to WoW and dominate the japanese who play it. :lol:

What japanese!? GAhaghgahaghghaghhahahahaahahh

 

[Mistaya]

lol only chinese. And the perk is you can KILL them legally!

I think encouraging cheating is a bad idea. Or at least the blatent disregarding of rules. Maybe the old school honor codes are out of fashion nowadays on both sides

Ele if you don't want to cheat, shadow. tell your members to put certain people on follow basically. If you say you saw 3-4 people cluster around a spot, I reccommend you get your people right up on their asses. A good tactic is to tell your guys to stand physically inside their guys, it makes people very uncomfortable to have another character 'in' them, on a subconscious level and they will move or adjust themselves since they cannot see. Harrassment basically i guess. I would say use wyverns and summons but if the <t> macro is glued to behemoth only, that is useless and they can use it to screw up your targetting with no damage to their own.

I say use the sniffer, because SE itself said the sniffer is legal. If SE says you can use it you are a fool not to, and they basically did. SE has done nothing and will continue to do nothing to help the legit players on either side. They could but they arent and they wont and depending on them to do something next year sometime is just dumb.

As fun as dia'ing it and letting them die might be, if it would upset your members and cause friction in the linkshell you should not do it. I disagree with Panda about that one thing. Linkshell members are close friends and have to trust each other. It would be a poor linkshell leader who did what you are saying Panda

Them countering you on other mobs just to fuck with you is not an idle threat either, I've seen it and it isnt cool.

 

[Elemmire]

hehe.. I don't mind using the packet sniffer around them but the thing is we did put people around cashell and such and some how provoke didn't beat poison...