Go Bush!

[Darkdante]

Wow awesome job Mr. President. You will go down in history as one of the most memorable Presidents that has ever lived.

/bravo

http://www.cnn.com/video/partners/c.../2005/10/28/romans.america.by.the.numbers.cnn

 

[Skaw]

No Child Left Behind at work people. 8)

 

[Trippyhippy]

It isn't soley his fault, it's the adminstration as a whole.

It's not like he writes any of this legislation, he just does what he is told like a good little figurehead. Admittidly he isn't great at the whole figure head thing.

You'd think they would have used Jeb instead, because George W. is ignorant. Here is a page dedicated to his ignorance.

yeah yeah, he's not a good speaker, I know. What is he good at? Drinking? Snorting things up his nose? Taking vacation? Making up words? Dodging the draft? Not finding oil in Texas? Choosing bad nomines for the Supreme court? Finding jobs for his friends?

I really have no idea how anyone can defend him.

Worst President since LBJ. Saying someone is worse than Nixon is really saying something too.

This country won't get any better untill we remove the idea of political parties from the whole process. The fact that that will be next to fucking impossible seems disheartening.

If I could not go to Heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all.

I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but in those of the popular form it is seen in its greatest rankness and is truly their worst enemy....

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part against another; foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passion. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government, and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose; and there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume.

You can read the whole thing here.

 

[vang]

Did any of you liberal internet trendys vote? Are you old enough to vote? Don't lie either.

 

[Skaw]

Did any of you liberal internet trendys vote? Are you old enough to vote? Don't lie either.

Yes. Yes I did. Did you?

And it's not about being a liberal for me. It's about his screwed up administration. 8)

 

[Rones]

Wow, what a great video for taking statistics totally out of context and implying causation without giving reason.

It says 37 million people live in 'poverty'...however how many people in China living in 'poverty' have air conditioning, clean water, cars, and jobs available paying at least $5+ (US). Poverty depends on what you are comparing it to. Our 'poverty stricken people' are actually very well off compared to what would be middle class in many other countries. Ben Stein did an excellent speech on this one with lots of informative numbers once, but I have never been able to find a transcript of it.

1.5 million babies born to unwed mothers...however it fails to point out that record numbers of couples are living together and having children without getting married. These aren't all single teenage mothers. Teenage birth rates are down and older mother birth rates are up. Our culture just doesn't put as much emphasis on marriage anymore, yet they still live much the same (eg: couple living together under same house raising children).

50% of black and hispanics do not graduate...and we automatically assume this is the fault of the schools and government who bend over backwords to graduate these kids. The whole point of the no child left behind act was to force schools to improve this. However, much of the problem lies not with the school systems, but with black and hispanic cultures that discourage education and encourage higher drop out rates (eg: glorification of thug life, gang importance, poor image of achievers in school). US culture does not put the emphasis and importance on education like other countries do.

China graduates 8-10 as many engineers as the US...hmmm big surprise. :roll: That right there is selective presentation of statistics. You can't do a straight comparison engineer graduates of a population of 1,306,313,812 vs a population of 295,734,134. They have 4 times as many people as us, and given it is a less developed country it makes since they would have more graduates focusing on engineering than the US's more devisified college graduates (we can support more fine arts graduates for example). China is a largely industrialized nation, which requires more engineers than US's service based society.

You'd think they would have used Jeb instead, because George W. is ignorant

Funny you calm ignorant meaning uneducated. If he is dumb, what does that make Kerry who Bush actually got better grades then (Kerry got more D's in college than Bush). I'm sorry he talks friendly and not like an elitest snot. I'm so sick of seeing Bushesims. Everyone mixs up words, but not everyone has people scouring every word he says to find some grammatical mistake or swapped word. He mistakes are largely a result of Bush prefering to give speeches from himself with a friendlier attitude than coldly reading straight off the promp screens (that Clinton followed to the T for example). This is like comparing using cue cards with only subject notes for yourself vs reading a term paper word for word. Of course you will have more gramtical mistakes with the cue card style, but a lot more feeling and emotion gets put into the message (which is an underappreciated aspect of communication).

If you are going to make a thread to start shit about Bush, at least come in with some valid points instead of just a propaganda video (really disappointed in CNN as of late).

 

[Rinoah]

No i didn't vote and i'm not old enough vang.

 

[Darkdante]

Wow, what a great video for taking statistics totally out of context and implying causation without giving reason.

Wow what a great post for denying the facts right off the bat. Then trying to refute those same facts with no evidence of your own.

8)

It says 37 million people live in 'poverty'...

Rones poverty is defined as how far below the standard of living these people are currently at. Does anywhere in the video state that our poverty level is equal to China's? Or how about say American poverty level in the 1900's? You can't compare the two because they are both on differnt scales. And trying to compare the two is the just plain retarded.

You know Rones in some countries our "Prison inmates" can be considered having a higher standard of living than most of thier population. Is that the kind of rediculous logic you want used here?

When 10 percent of the population of the USA controls two thirds of the countries wealth what does that tell you?

1.5 million babies born to unwed mothers...

Spoken like a true man that does not know the benefits of marrige or the benefits of a family. Yes Rones you explained the reality we live in and the mentality of why its justified by the people who are alive today.

Does this mean its "beneficial" to children? Or "beneficial" to the adults who's lives we are explaining? I can't see how it can be "benefical" to children in this day and age with this fucked up economy with the dumbass President, to have 1 parent struggling along with the bills.
NO WONDER WE NEED A TAX CUT.
Oh wait I get it, its beneficial because they can collect food stamps. Oh great there goes the reasoning for the tax cut, now the next President will have to raise taxes even more. :roll:

Hell if they just got married they would have it right there. I'm thinking this was Bush's "contingency plan" right here.
Make a tax cut so when he fucks over all the families in America, they'll have something to fall back on.

50% of black and hispanics do not graduate...

Yes Rones. Its the blacks and hispanics fault that things have gotten worse simply by adding Bush to the White House.

:roll:

I guess you like Bush think they are all just a bunch of dumbfucks anyway not worth saving from a hurricane right?

China graduates 8-10 as many engineers as the US...

Ya haha, big suprise there since all the best schools are in AMERICA. Since you state our poverty level is much higher than China. There are more, much much more people that can actually go to college here vs. poverty striken China. Put those rat eating China men, into your equation and see what you get then.

:roll:

If your gonna try to refute something at least come up with some valid examples and arguements. Instead of coming here calling Black and Hispanic people a bunch of dumbfucks, or come up with a ridicoulos notion that our poor people should be eating rats and drinking dirty water before we consider them in "poverty".


Edit:
HOray, finally the site works enough that my post gets through. But I "saved" this time. grumble......... :evil:

 

[Rones]

Wow what a great post for denying the facts right off the bat. Then trying to refute those same facts with no evidence of your own.

Funny, considering I did not refute any of their facts. Reread my post. I said they were taken out of context and miss represented, not that they were wrong. Michael Moore loves to do this. He will take a true fact, and then skew it with the presentation. Also, I find it funny you accuse me of lacking evidence. That has never stopped you before, and you actually complained about me providing to much in other threads. I think you just like to whine about whatever I do regardless of the action.

Rones poverty is defined as how far below the standard of living these people are currently at.

Exactly, so no matter how well off the poor are, as long as there are still differences in wealth there will be a poorer group. However, just because there are some that are poorer isn't automatically a bad thing. That was what I was trying to explain with my example. US's poor are poorer than wealthy Americans, but they are still pretty well off. However, as long as we don't have a communist system with pure economic equality for all, you won't be happy. :roll:

to have 1 parent struggling along with the bills.

See, you did the same thing the video tried. You automatically assume unwed mother = single parent. The point I'm making is these unwed mothers are actually living with a signifigant other in record numbers just like a normal family, however they haven't got married yet. Some sociologists theorize this is because our generation is learning from the mistakes of our parents who set record divorce rates. So instead of rushing into marriage, they are living together for several years before getting married. Incidently, more choose to have the child during that time then.

Yes Rones. Its the blacks and hispanics fault that things have gotten worse simply by adding Bush to the White House.
...Instead of coming here calling Black and Hispanic people a bunch of dumbfucks...

That is not what I said, but thats what you immidiately thought. Who's the racist one again? :wink: I specifically said their culture makes the problem worse. I then specified aspects of their culture that are less prominent in other races who do not have as bad of graduation problems. Do you want to argue that their culture (thug and gang worship for example) is encouraging of education? You also fail to specify anything about the schools system that selectively causes blacks and hispanics to fail.

Even at my high school where hispanics were pampered with tutoring and 'english as a second language' they had much higher failure rates. They had a higher drop out rate not because of the school, but because education is not important to them. Many of their parents were recent immigrants to the US and uneducated themselves, so they saw no reason for their children to be educated either. No encouragement in the home is a cultureal aspect for some. I'm not saying hispanics or blacks are any less capable physically, but rather their culture is largely to blame.

Since you state our poverty level is much higher than China. There are more, much much more people that can actually go to college here vs. poverty striken China. Put those rat eating China men, into your equation and see what you get then.

I never said rat eating. I'm really wondering who the real racist is around here. 8) Anyway, just because the average Chinese is poorer, doesn't necesarrily mean less have to recieve a college education. Their standard of living is much lower and the cost of college is much lower. They just don't see as small of class sizes and pampering as you would commonly see at the very expensive US colleges. You want me to add rat eatting Chinese men into the equation..but I don't see what that has to do with the discussion. I included China's total population and explained less of our college grads are engineers propertionally than more industry based countries like China. Are you wanting to dispute that?

If your gonna try to refute something at least come up with some valid examples and arguements.

You should take your own advice. I did provide examples, and I feel I explained my perspective on the given statistics better than your propaganda video. You are no position to accuse me of not adequately supporting my argument.

 

[Answa~]

I specifically said their culture makes the problem worse. I then specified aspects of their culture that are less prominent in other races who do not have as bad of graduation problems. Do you want to argue that their culture (thug and gang worship for example) is encouraging of education?

Are you kidding me? Their culture tells them to be idiots? That was a racist comment.

I'm Puerto Rican, and you may argue that because of that, I can't give my opinion about this because we're being "Americanized", whatever. But, we DO get immigrants from other hispanic countries, and they're eager to learn. Dominicans, Colombians, Argentinians, you name it, we got it.

Now, I've never much noticed it before college, but now that I am in college, I've met so many foreigners it's insane. I have foreign Professors and Instructors... So many people from Latin America that we're cojoined.

Stating that a culture does

thug and gang worship for example

is about the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Rones, I'm disappointed, I don't always agree with you, but that was just... insanely wrong.

I'm not supporting gangs or anything, but the reason they're fomed is because they're frustrated because they don't understandthe language, they're being segregated, so they go with people they're familiar with... they don't care how wrong it is. I do, and I restate that I don't upport them at all. Ooh, a Hispanic person who doesn't worship thugs and gangs!!! :roll:

 

[Rones]

I'm not supporting gangs or anything, but the reason they're fomed is because they're frustrated because they don't understandthe language...Hispanic person who doesn't worship thugs and gangs!!!

Actually, I had blacks in mind when I said that. The thug image is more a trait among black culture (look at music videos for examples).

I stated my opinion on Hispanic culture because I live in Northwest Arkansas. It might seem strange, but we have the highest hispanic immigration in the country. This is mostly due to the large poultry production and Tyson HQ here who hire loads of minimum wage works. I grew up playing soccer, vast majority of the players were hispanic for example. I've had a lot of exposure to their culture. It is also a subject we studied in sociology and psychology. To claim their culture is just as encouraging of education is lying to yourself.

Are you kidding me? Their culture tells them to be idiots? That was a racist comment.

Again, I did not say it encouraged them to be idiots. It is nothing like that. Their culture however encourages and glorrifies other behaviors than being successful in school. People's personality's you learn in psychology depend part on birth traits and the other part environment (culture). Parents of familys who immigrate from Mexico commonly do not have college education (or even high school for that matter). They put a lower importance on education, and this passes on to their children as it is part of their parent's culture.

Compare Black culture to Asian culture for example. Tell me with a straight face you don't see a difference in the cultural importance of education. The racial cultures are not identical. Admitting that is not racism. Racism is treating them deteremintely and unfairly because of it, which I'm not doing. I am identifying a problem that needs solving.

 

[Answa~]

Their culture however encourages and glorifies other behaviors than being successful in school.

So does yours.

I'm sorry, generalizing isn't ever the answer. Ever.

To me, racism begins when we separate people by race. "Race" is a stupid word, I think.

Not everyone that's "white" is American, for example. White to me, is skin color. I'm white according to this definition. I'm not American unless you use the term correctly, defining me as a resident of the American continent, much like how you can call a French person an European. I'm not white, however, according to race, I'm latino in this aspect, which is Hispanic, too. I value education. All of my friends value education.

The people you see in the US that are from Latin America aren't all from the same country. Latin America isn't a country, you see. Not everyone names a country after a continent and claims sovereignty over the whole place... But I kid myself. Since not everyone is from the same country, it's impossible for you to claim that they all have the same culture. Trust me, it's a serious mistake to assume this.

Second, I'm not talking about people from Asia nor about people whose skin is black. But, if you wanna go there, the sam rule applies, a Korean is not the same as an Indian. Someone from Nigeria is not the same as someone from... I dunno, some other country in Africa. And, besides, the culture the black people in the US have is the very same as everyone else's: the American one, if there is such a thing (not saying this demeaningly, just saying the country is very big, has two outside states, and has immigrants up the ass).

Bah, whatever, just don't ever say that Hispanic people's culture "discourage education and encourage higher drop out rates" because it is simply not true, too general, and too stupid to be uttered. Those that you see that don't actually want to gt their education are the exception, not the rule. I'm not comparing them to anyone, as you like to do, but lack of money to give their children an education and no scholarships available to help them, I imagine it would be tough to follow through on a full education, I'm not going into the economical aspect (a) because I don't have any facts, and (b) because I just don't know, anyway.

 

[Rones]

To me, racism begins when we separate people by race. "Race" is a stupid word, I think.

*sigh* It is this extreme political correctness that is so frustrating at times. You are lying and deluding yourself to argue races do not have cultures unique to themselves. Looking at someones culture is not simple generalization. Stop being so scared of the race word. I hope you never take a sociology class as the study of culture and its influences upon the behavior of people makes up the core of the material.

lack of money to give their children an education and no scholarships available to help them

ROFL. You really haven't seen US college schloarship programs lately. The U. of Arkansas is so desperate for hispanic students they will give full ride scholarships to any hispanics regardless of their gpa with no other obligations beyond staying in school, but the school continues to come up way short. Why? Well it sure isn't money. I can count on one hand the number of male hispanic students I have seen on campus for classes out of a school of 18,000 students. There are a few hispanic females that attend, but still lucky to see more than 1 a week.

Bottom line, don't be so scared of political correctness that you can't discuss racial culture. Racial culture is commonly a thing to be proud of, but that doesn't mean they are without fault. Coincidently, AETN is doing a special right now on cultural norms among Latino women on why they are acceptive of spousal abuse. It is discussing the cultural norm of male dominated society found in some racial groups. Is a video discussing that racist? Sticking our heads in the ground when it comes to bad cultural norms of some races is not going to improve things.

Don't be an Ethnix.

 

[Darkdante]

The equivalent of what you said Rones would be that if I lived with some dumbfuck rednecks and took them as a representative of the white race as a whole.

Maybe its just the type of people you choose to associate with? Ever thought of that?

 

[Rones]

The equivalent of what you said Rones would be that if I lived with some dumbfuck rednecks and took them as a representative of the white race as a whole.

Did I say I was basing this solely on my own personal expereince? As I have mentioned in many of our previous discussions, I have taken a good number of sociology and psychology courses (just finished social psychology this summer). How much experience do you have with the subject matter to disagree with my statements? Just because the subject is vast and unkown to you, does not mean it is so mysterious and undescrible to others. Even the local media does regular reports trying to identify the problem with hispanic student graduation rates because we have such a large hispanic population. The usual conclusion after extensive study? Cultural differences. The U.S. is not a melting pot of cultures. Rather, it is a collage of different cultrues.

 

[Darkdante]

So you read a book and your already an expert huh? I never said I was.

For some reason however you seem to think all black and hispanic people run around singing the song "its a thugish ruggish boooooonnnne".

Its not like that Rones. Like I said maybe its the people you associate with.

It could also be I just don't associate with those types of people and the ones I know are the few.

It sure doesn't seem like the case when you look at how many dumbfucks of all races there are. Just look here on this board.

 

[Answa~]

lack of money to give their children an education and no scholarships available to help them

ROFL. You really haven't seen US college schloarship programs lately. The U. of Arkansas is so desperate for hispanic students they will give full ride scholarships to any hispanics regardless of their gpa with no other obligations beyond staying in school, but the school continues to come up way short. Why? Well it sure isn't money. I can count on one hand the number of male hispanic students I have seen on campus for classes out of a school of 18,000 students. There are a few hispanic females that attend, but still lucky to see more than 1 a week.

I said this as the cause why the parents of the children in their own countries didn't have an education to start with and so they move to the US for jobs.

It is this extreme political correctness that is so frustrating at times.

I'm not extreme and not politically correct, I'm stating my opinion. There is no such thing as political correctness here in P.R., because nobody really cares. Saying that what I said is politically correct is flawed, too, in fact, politicians themselves divide people in races, that scholarship for minorities comes to mind... I forgot its name.. :roll: I don't remember...

I consider looking at people and dividing them in races extreme. A black person from the US probably only has his skin color in common with a black person from any country in Africa. It seems fine, however, that I can call Africans thugs, right? Or that they glorify thuggery... if the word exists.

Women and men are at an equilibrium where I study, and where I study is the most prestigious engineering school in Puerto Rico, and is very recognized worldwide as one of the best. And we're [almost] all Hispanic.

But, not that you care, since you're an American white person, you're very smart, have [a lot of] money, are a Protestant, and whatever else people think about white people... Well, I guess your bud Bush fits this description... except for the smart part.

 

[Rones]

I never said I was an expert. However, I do feel I have researched enough to discuss it (more than just 'reading a book' although I did read about many cultural studies). I also never said all act a certain way, now you are generalizing. Culture never applies to everyone, that is obvious. However that does not mean cultural norms do not exist.

It sure doesn't seem like the case when you look at how many dumbfucks of all races there are. Just look here on this board.

DD's Logic 101-
Given: Other races have dumb people
Therefore: Culture has no effect on education

You are going to have to explain your logic to me. Your logic makes no since. Ok, lets try this from the opposite spectrum. Would it be racist and wrong of me to say Japanese culture for example encourages better educational performance from students? It is a huge dishonor for most (I'm not saying all, so don't whine about generalization) Japanese students to fail in academics. Do you disagree with this?

A black person from the US probably only has his skin color in common with a black person from any country in Africa. It seems fine, however, that I can call Africans thugs, right?

Last I checked we were discussing Blacks in the US education system. That would exclude Africans. :roll:

 

[Shi-do-sha]

50% of black and hispanics do not graduate...and we automatically assume this is the fault of the schools and government who bend over backwords to graduate these kids. The whole point of the no child left behind act was to force schools to improve this. However, much of the problem lies not with the school systems, but with black and hispanic cultures that discourage education and encourage higher drop out rates (eg: glorification of thug life, gang importance, poor image of achievers in school). US culture does not put the emphasis and importance on education like other countries do.

that has got to be the stupidest thing i ever read... but if its an opinion i will respect it

 

[Rones]

Ok, you are all so great at whing and criticizing my view as to what caused that statistics. Yet, I fail to see anyone suggesting another view (beyond Bush is the lord of evil and everything is his fault :roll: ). If my view is so wrong, then what is the right cause?

Calling something stupid and respecting it are mutually exlusive descriptions. You disrepect a view by calling it stupid.