God damned CCers

[Exthimious]

Yup, playing EQ people respected other people's camps. There were plenty of spots where people would go to XP, and if there was someone who camped the named whilek killing the PH, then the XP group would respect that camp and not engage the named even if they could have. That's just the way it was done, and it worked.

Someone is going to bring up that RMTs don't respect camps (as if anyone in FFXI does anyway), but I just want to say that there were few professional RMTs during the early 3-ish years of EQ. Those guys (Americans) who camped to sell to IGE and like would respect camps as well.

Dunno what to say, there was simply more willingness to work things out instead of getting all ticked off.

In EQ was it still a pain to get money? (Never played so I wouldnt kno) I think this game would be much more enjoyable if half the time wasnt spent trying to just get money.

 

[Westyle]

Yup, playing EQ people respected other people's camps. There were plenty of spots where people would go to XP, and if there was someone who camped the named whilek killing the PH, then the XP group would respect that camp and not engage the named even if they could have. That's just the way it was done, and it worked.

Someone is going to bring up that RMTs don't respect camps (as if anyone in FFXI does anyway), but I just want to say that there were few professional RMTs during the early 3-ish years of EQ. Those guys (Americans) who camped to sell to IGE and like would respect camps as well.

Dunno what to say, there was simply more willingness to work things out instead of getting all ticked off.

We did the same in EQOA, but FFXI is different. The named enemies are few and far between, pop less, and are usually too strong for an xp party there to take out. In EQOA, there were so many named mobs and they popped so much that we didn't care. Yes it was nice to get one but we didn't obsess over it. Plus there was the fact that just about every mob in the game had a chance of dropping a rare item.

 

[ichibankitsu]

I think it's kinda stupid to assume that because you're looking for something, and someone gets it before you, whether you know if they were looking for it or not, you deserve to get it and that they were "wrong" for "taking it from you".

You 'helped' him get a few bees for at the most, what, 2000 gil worth of beehive chips, and somehow think that translates to letting you have an NM that drops something far more valuable? That'd be like if you were out looking to buy a car one day, spotted like, a hotdog vendor on the sidewalk with some great deal on hotdogs, and called a friend to come take advantage of these great, cheap hotdogs, and having that friend, on their way back from getting that great hotdog, see a car for sale parked on the street and happen to bump into the owner who wants to sell it for way less than it's worth, for some reason or another. If they happened to need a car as well, should they really be expected to give that great deal to you just because you were there first and because you 'helped' them save a bit of money getting such a 'great deal'? It's a stupid example, I know, but it's pretty much the same thing. You do a small thing for someone, then expect them to do something much greater for in return because the opportunity for them to pay you back popped up immediately?

You didn't -need- to tell them there were more bees there. Chances are they would have found them anyways, it's not like it's that hard to find certain things in a zone when you're farming. The only person you have to blame for someone else claiming the NM is yourself, for not getting to it fast enough, or even moreso, for bringing them to your area where you know there's a chance the NM could pop and have it be stolen.

It's a game, nothing to get upset about. And also, being a game, it can be competitive. If I were camping an NM, I would do anything I could to prevent people from coming to the spawn area so I have higher chances of getting it myself. Even if it would be 'nice' to help someone that I see as just farming in an area, if they're capable of killing the NM I'm camping, I will -not- help them by telling them to come to the spawn area. Again, they would probably find it on their own anyways.

Sorry, but as bad as what happened to you was, I dont think it's something you should really be complaining about. Just go back to camping again. I've had NMs killed by people passing through an area, and as annoying as it was to be stuck camping for another 3-4 hours because of people just passing through, I dealt with it.

Besides, at least you can farm and -buy- the drops from that NM. At least it wasn't an NM with an EX drop.

 

[Dowzer]

Definatly noticed now, I'm still camping and helpin another guy drop the solea gear, still dunno if I should trust him or not >_>

Dude, Dracoden and I barely know each other.

We made a pact to get 2 PCA's from Argus.

What gave me the ability to trust him and hand him the first PCA that dropped? How did I know he would keep helping me later that week? I honestly didn't, till he kept showing up. But at the time I actually ENJOYED camping Argus. So that's probably why I didn't mind trusting him.

So just becarefull who you help out, definently discuss your objectives of camping whichever NM. Kind of hard to do that when you can't understand the other player, hence your situation.

 

[Sculli]

In EQ was it still a pain to get money? (Never played so I wouldnt kno) I think this game would be much more enjoyable if half the time wasnt spent trying to just get money.

I think that the opportunities to get cash are probably more or less even in any MMO if you forget about camping. While Westyle is right about normal mobs in EQ having a chance to drop something really good, the overall time spend vs. wealth accumulated is not favorable when camping. (EQ had a few exceptions, i.e. soloing orges in tactics and dropping down to snatch the named in the arena (piglet and such)).

I believe that it is easier to profit through working the AH on high-low margins as well as supplying lazy or uneducated players with things they need and buy at the AH.

This too will require that you spend time browsing the AH, logging your mules, running to vendors, etc. However, you are guaranteed profit, while if you camp a NM for 10 hours, your chances of losing the claim or not getting the drop are fairly high.

No one ever went broke making a profit. So what if you only make 1k on some item. If you sell 10 a day that's 10k, for perhaps 10 minutes of work. 1k per minute, guaranteed, and that's just one of your income streams. Have a bunch of those and you will be able to afford to make higher margin AH trades in no time.

 

[Shaunessy]

Its called common courtesy, and manners, and most of this server doesnt have it. He knew that somebody was camping it, he was after something else, why go and take away it away from someone else?

Think about this... if your best friend was camping that, and you were after those chips, would you take it from him?

Your answer should be no, and why take it from a stranger, and not from your friend?

Yes I would. Now I'm at an inpass because I let one of my best friends borrow both my Battleaxe +1, Emporer Hairpin and Winged Boots +1 so he could have the best gear going into a promy tonight.

And Dracoden is awsome, cause when I was a pathetic 52 WHM/06 WAR, Dracoden helped me get keys every time I came back to Ordelles Caves for my RSE. I think he was a 56 THF at the time. Since that time I've had the upmost respect for him. Especially considering that that was the first time I ever met him.

 

[Winklewil]

I do have to say that, out of all the MMORPGs I've played, FFXI has unique "social rules" when it comes to rare spawns. When I first started playing, in fact, I had trouble adapting to the feeding frenzy over rare mobs -- I was just so accustomed to the way things were done in Everquest.


Here, it's commonly accepted that any notorious monster is up to be camped by as many people who want to camp it, at the same time.


In other games, most notably Everquest, most people wouldn't dream of crowding 10+ people in one area for a rare mob with a good drop. Yes, there were just as many rare spawns (we used to call them 'named' mobs) in Everquest, but ... and I am absolutely truthful when I say this ... people would literally LINE UP CALMLY to camp these things.

They wouldn't all just dash for the door, trying to be the first through. There was a "waiting list." You'd check to see whoever was camping what first, and you'd ask to be put on the waiting list. A common practice was to walk into a zone, /shout "Camp Check," and wait for the replies to come rolling in.

"First orc camp."

"Dervishes"

"guard outpost 3"

"Ancient Cyclops"


The first examples would be common experience camps (which you were fully expected to respect ... no camping right on top of another party, unless the camp was completely capable of supporting more than one). The Ancient Cyclops, however, was a mob with a drop necessary to obtain Journeyman's Boots ... a very sought after item, as it granted you an increased movement effect that you'd otherwise have to rely on someone else for. Imagine an item with unlimitted Mazurka charges, with a one-minute cooldown ... then you can imagine what the item was like.

Still, when someone responded that they were camping Ancient Cyclops, general etiquette in Everquest dictated that you let that one person have it, and wait for him/her to tell the next person in "line" when they were through. It might not seem like a good system, but believe it or not, it worked fine. There'd generally never be more than three people ahead of you. You would simply go about your business elsewhere until you got a tell saying that it was your turn, and you would head to the camp ... and have it all to yourself.




Of course, I'm not saying that it was necessarily a "better" way. FFXI has a lot of things that make it different ... namely the claim system. In Everquest, anyone could attack any mob at any time, regardless of who had gotten to it first. Experience and looting rights went to whoever did the greatest damage ... not the person who first engaged it. To "kill steal" like this was a bannable offense, and it was extremely rare for someone to do it ... the Everquest GMs would come down hard on this issue in particular ... but it did leave open a lot of griefing opportunities.

FFXI's claim system, I think, might be one of the biggest reasons for the completely different rules of camping etiquette.




At any rate, we're playing Final Fantasy XI, and not Everquest. This is where the leaves of unwritten communal rules have settled for this game, and it's best to accept it ... not complain that it should be different.

 

[Bajaratt]

If the drop was guaranteed, then a line could work. There were lines for the NPC quest that almost everyone followed. The Drop would also have to be rare/ex, so that you'd only have to kill it once and then you'd never had to kill it again. If you could get it and sell it over and over, then there'd be a huge line at all times and people would still "cut" in line like they did with the NPC.

Also, more kids and immature people are playing these games, which leads to more people who aren't willing to be patient and wait for their turn when it comes to the game. Adults are usually much more willing to work together to solve things orderly, but kids and most teenagers are all in the "mememe" stage of development, and don't give a rats ass about what would make sense if it doesn't benefit them now.

 

[Bigboy]

I am pretty sure the fact that he was JP meant little more than. "I couldn't communicate to him how long I had been there and for what purpose, nor propose a deal." Communications breakdown. I deffinately include the persons ethnicity in stories if only to erase confusion. Notice no one asked why he didn't just ask the guy if he could take it or help or whatever. It sucks cuz both sides are innocent, but the situation could have been much better (possibly worse) had there been the possibility of diologue.

 

[Winklewil]

I am pretty sure the fact that he was JP meant little more than. "I couldn't communicate to him how long I had been there and for what purpose, nor propose a deal."

His original comments were toned down considerably by Sculli, Big. They've been edited. You're coming to the thread well after that.

Before the change, the words he used were literally "Goddamned Japanese." Bearing that in mind, once you read his story, there's a definite element of xenophobia in his account of things. What's more, he's admitted that he made the (original) title as inflammatory as he could to draw more attention.

 

[Shaunessy]

If the drop was guaranteed, then a line could work. There were lines for the NPC quest that almost everyone followed. The Drop would also have to be rare/ex, so that you'd only have to kill it once and then you'd never had to kill it again. If you could get it and sell it over and over, then there'd be a huge line at all times and people would still "cut" in line like they did with the NPC.

Also, more kids and immature people are playing these games, which leads to more people who aren't willing to be patient and wait for their turn when it comes to the game. Adults are usually much more willing to work together to solve things orderly, but kids and most teenagers are all in the "mememe" stage of development, and don't give a rats ass about what would make sense if it doesn't benefit them now.

Get the hell out of here, that line for the NPCs was the biggest joke I ever saw in an MMO. Also you talk about more kids and immature people playing these games and you're what, 18, 19.... Have you played Everquest? DAoC? Anything that is as big as FFXI before this game? You know what makes FFXI unique? The fact that your loot doesn't fall on the ground at the feet of the mob when you kill it. The claiming system and the fact that only the claimer can fight said mob. In an envioment like that you are destined to have more competition and more people that do whatever they do for themselves first. While I don't agree with it sometimes, I like the challenge of getting there before the next man, and I got some R/EX drops that I use as trophies to that fact. Still need a Peacock Amulet but that time will come. All in all though SE made this game and never really thought out how an MMO is played, which I like it for that and hate it at the same time. As it stands though it's still the best looking MMO that I've played, besides Eve which I like alot, so I won't give up on it just yet.

 

[Bajaratt]

Get the hell out of here, that line for the NPCs was the biggest joke I ever saw in an MMO. Also you talk about more kids and immature people playing these games and you're what, 18, 19.... Have you played Everquest? DAoC? Anything that is as big as FFXI before this game? You know what makes FFXI unique? The fact that your loot doesn't fall on the ground at the feet of the mob when you kill it. The claiming system and the fact that only the claimer can fight said mob. In an envioment like that you are destined to have more competition and more people that do whatever they do for themselves first. While I don't agree with it sometimes, I like the challenge of getting there before the next man, and I got some R/EX drops that I use as trophies to that fact. Still need a Peacock Amulet but that time will come. All in all though SE made this game and never really thought out how an MMO is played, which I like it for that and hate it at the same time. As it stands though it's still the best looking MMO that I've played, besides Eve which I like alot, so I won't give up on it just yet.

Case in point.

 

[Sculli]

His original comments were toned down considerably by Sculli, Big. They've been edited.

The original title was edited, the original post wasn't.

 

[Shaunessy]

Case in point.

Case in point what? What are you triing to prove with your little PC+1?

 

[Winklewil]

The original title was edited, the original post wasn't.

This is true, and I suppose I wasn't clear about it. "Comments" doesn't exactly translate into "title." I apologize. Still:

Before the change, the words he used were literally "Goddamned Japanese." Bearing that in mind, once you read his story, there's a definite element of xenophobia in his account of things.

...is very true. Those two words that were removed, alone, set the tone for the entire post. Don't you agree? :/

 

[Winklewil]

Case in point what? What are you triing to prove with your little PC+1?

He's agreeing with you, buddy. He's making different points, but reaching the same conclusion you are. You're fighting an argument that wasn't an argument.

I think you've got an instinct to jump to the defensive a bit too quickly...

 

[Exthimious]

I will say that the title was a bit over exagerated, but at the time I was mad and very frustatrated with the situation. I'm doing a nice thing for him, and its turned around and stabbed in the back. He knew very well that I was camping him, he ran by earlier and asked if he was camping, and he said he was after the bee's, he ran off into a different direction after he killed all the bee's... He didnt touch any yugado just let them be for me to take care of. And I kindly (which I will never do anymore) told him the bee's respawned, so in about a min he came back and killed about 1 or 2.

I was standing on "Pride Rock" so I could see everything, I notice to the right it spawns at his exact position, and I tried to get provoke off, but he got there first, he killed him, then went back and killed the rest of the bee's and left the yugado's.

You just think some people would be a bit nicer, especially since I'm helping him out. Kinda like showing your best friend the girl you like. He kno's you like her, he likes someone else, yet as soon as the opportunity arises he takes advantage of it. Of course your gonna be pissed.

Moral of my story, our server needs to get along more and stop treating each other like crap. If you told someone your gonna help them camp LL, you better help them and give them the drop. Otherwise don't help and make a bad name for yourself. Whats the point in it? Now the entire world kno's not to trust you, and when you need help, you really think anyone is gonna help you. I bet the economy would be so much better also. People wouldn't be as greedy and jack up prices on AH it wouldnt cost 20 mil for a damn errant cape that I would like to get.
The game was designed to have fun, whats the point when you have to WORK to get everything you would like? OOh congrats you camp NM's all the time and you have 70 mil gil, does it make you feel more powerfull? Is it a competition to see who can get the most money?

If everyone just got along on this server, this game would be sooooo much more fun!

 

[Claxton]

Its a video game. No one is going to help a god damn stranger because they were there first. God, its people like you that make my glad the flameboard is gone. Next time go to QCNN, k?

 

[Bigboy]

If everyone just got along on this server, this game would be sooooo much more fun!

We get along fine, when we don't expect too much from others. I am getting pretty tired of hearing about how horrible our server is. It always amazes me that the people getting super ent out of shape over the silliest things actually have the gaul to make comments about the server as a whole. Next thing you know, someone is gonna say our server has problems because people are sellings things for too much money, and all of a sudden we'll have too many "greedy" people on our server...

The complaining never ends. Our server is great, and certainly no worse than any others. If anything, our server is best known for its mediocrity.

 

[Bajaratt]

He's agreeing with you, buddy. He's making different points, but reaching the same conclusion you are. You're fighting an argument that wasn't an argument.

I think you've got an instinct to jump to the defensive a bit too quickly...

No, actually I'm saying that his post agrees with what I said about how few people want to work together and why. He's calling the lines at the NPC quest spots one of the biggest jokes he's ever seen, while everyone else liked the idea of the lines. He's going on and on about how he likes the competition and that's fine; but when people suddenly work together to not piss everyone off, that's suddenly a joke. That's the kind of attitude that leads to probelms with everyone working together, not giving a shit about other people at all and just thinking "me-me-me."