Gods Shell Proposal

Lavi said:
Think of it another way. When you camp NMs, do you help your competition?
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Yes, I actually do. Ask Trenma about Eastern Shadow. God forbid people be friendly with eachother.
 
Dowzer said:
Yes, I actually do. Ask Trenma about Eastern Shadow. God forbid people be friendly with eachother.
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If they're claiming a r/e drop that they have no chance of losing the fight, joining them and helping them out would actually be in your best interests. More people = more chances for drops, so if it drops, then that's one less person competing against you.
 
Dowzer said:
This is the only reason you seem to be in an arguement with everyone. Well, it stops here and now. No one gives a shit about your two-bit opinion, keep it to yourself. People will do what they please with the items they obtain, they don't need a screening from Lavi to have permission to sell or trade them; so neither should Lews. Be gone.
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And I don't need the permission of a two bit hacker to voice my opinion, do I? I don't need you to tell me I am in the minority, I do know that, but at the very least I am looking out for the members of my shell instead of some stranger who has no regards for them. Seems you've got some fucked up priorities when you'd consider helping a random stranger who can and will take resources your shell needs and those are the people that you should be looking out for most. I don't care if you think it's a slim chance, the matter is that no matter where that pop set came from, there is one less person(not talking about RMT) who actually takes the time to farm for those items that will not recieve it.

Would I like to spread a couple million gil between my members? Yes. But I'd rather see a pair of haidates go to one of my members because we earned.
 
Bajaratt said:
If they're claiming a r/e drop that they have no chance of losing the fight, joining them and helping them out would actually be in your best interests. More people = more chances for drops, so if it drops, then that's one less person competing against you.
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Yeah that wasn't a very good example. However, Sozu Rogberry might be a better example. Pulling the Magic Pots away from Talindra when she drew aggro was probably helpful. I think it was Talindra, even though we helped countless other people with similar issues. The point being, they could have possibly wiped but we helped them regardless.
 
Lavi said:
I really don't know anything about that, nor do I care.
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I'll educate you then. When Johnnyb got told that Element wouldn't drop everything in order to accomodate his Limbus schedule, he flipped out, pitched a tantrum, and absconded with most of the shell's Sea pop sets. So yes, your shell accepted someone who stole a LOT of pop sets, and quite possibly used them to buy his way in.

Ultimately, the key here is that Lews is free to ask if anyone is willing to pop Byakko for him, and shells are free to refuse to do so if they feel it's against their best interests to encourage people to farm their own pop items.
 
Raesvelg said:
Ultimately, the key here is that Lews is free to ask if anyone is willing to pop Byakko for him, and shells are free to refuse to do so if they feel it's against their best interests to encourage people to farm their own pop items.
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Someone besides me got the point of it at least. What the fuck does any of this other shit have to do with the post?
 
Let me use an example that applies to me.

Right now, I have a Cloud Evoker. I'm not in any end-game linkshell and just by asking friends, the odds of me being able to actually use it are pretty much impossible. Now basically what you're saying is that if I approach any linkshell that could defeat the fight for me, I'd be cheating out their members if I let them pop my evoker and I obtain some sort of reward from it. You can do all the wordplay you want to to try to make it sound like my example doesn't match an ls popping a byakko, but it's literally the same thing. I give a shell my evoker, they give me what I want from it (namely gil) and they get the orb to do bahamut v2. Someone providing a byakko pop set gets what they want (pants or gil or whatever) and the shell gets a kirin pop item. This happens all the time with ks99s, cloud evokers, and yes sky pop items.
 
Rappa said:
Let me use an example that applies to me.

Right now, I have a Cloud Evoker. I'm not in any end-game linkshell and just by asking friends, the odds of me being able to actually use it are pretty much impossible. Now basically what you're saying is that if I approach any linkshell that could defeat the fight for me, I'd be cheating out their members if I let them pop my evoker and I obtain some sort of reward from it. You can do all the wordplay you want to to try to make it sound like my example doesn't match an ls popping a byakko, but it's literally the same thing. I give a shell my evoker, they give me what I want from it (namely gil) and they get the orb to do bahamut v2. Someone providing a byakko pop set gets what they want (pants or gil or whatever) and the shell gets a kirin pop item. This happens all the time with ks99s, cloud evokers, and yes sky pop items.
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Cloud evokers are unlimited in resources. Byakko pops are not. If I use a cloud evoker, I do not take away something from anyone else, but if I was to buy, farm, or use any other method to gain byakko pops, I am. I am not condemning anyone; however, if you pop it, it's encouraging your competition to claim more pop NMs which again are limited in resource, something all B. haidates lotters know all too well.

Let me ask you, what happens if there is no drop? I assume he'll try it again and farm another set. Who's in direct competition for that set? The same people/shell that is going to kill Byakko. Had they and everyone else said no, then possibly he would be stuck with the pops for some time and the people waiting on haidates would have less competition. Not just from Lews either, but from the people who would and will do the same thing as him. I mean what's the point in joining a sky LS if I have to wait months and months to get a pair of haidates when I can pay roughly 2-3 mil for one from a non-RMT LS? Given that reason, why does anyone join a sky LS? I can farm more gil in the less time it takes me to earn points for and finally recieve a haidate.
 
Lavi said:
Cloud evokers are unlimited in resources. Byakko pops are not.
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Yes, yes they are. And there are a lot more Despots than there are Cloud Evokers. He isn't going anywhere, and there's as much competition to do ENMs (for gil, selling the items in the AH) as there are people up in sky. Having crappy claimers and not getting Despots isn't an excuse to complain when people outclaim you and ask for help with the kill.
 
The reasoning?: Anyone who CCs me is my enemy.

Everyone has the right to farm in sky any way they want to.

Sky is not reserved. Sky is free for all. When someone out claims me I congratulate them, not condemn them.
 
Rappa said:
Yes, yes they are. And there are a lot more Despots than there are Cloud Evokers. He isn't going anywhere, and there's as much competition to do ENMs (for gil, selling the items in the AH) as there are people up in sky. Having crappy claimers and not getting Despots isn't an excuse to complain when people outclaim you and ask for help with the kill.
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It has nothing to do with claiming. Those people would not be there if they did not have that option available to them. Allowing them to pop gives them all the reason to continue and encourages others to do the same. What if some of those that are encouraged buy from RMT? And they will no doubt about it do that whether they know or not. So not only do you encourage your competition, you also encourage the RMT to continue monopolyzing pops.

There's even a crappy LS out there that claims HNMs without the actual ability to kill them. They then proceed to beg all the competition for help in return for lotting rights. People would say no and let them die, but some shells are morons and too scared to lose claim. Would you encourage that too?
 
Lavi said:
It has nothing to do with claiming. Those people would not be there if they did not have that option available to them. Allowing them to pop gives them all the reason to continue and encourages others to do the same. What if some of those that are encouraged buy from RMT? And they will no doubt about it do that whether they know or not. So not only do you encourage your competition, you also encourage the RMT to continue monopolyzing pops.
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That's just it though, they'd be up there anyway. There's nothing that says "If you aren't in a sky ls you cannot kill sky mobs". They can be up there to get pop items to sell for gil, to try to use to get into a sky ls, to skillup, to try to get an item, whatever the hell they want to. You're trying to make sky into some kind of elite club, which it isn't. Making deals with lses is something that always has been and always will be in this game. You can't get rid of it.

Lavi said:
There's even a crappy LS out there that claims HNMs without the actual ability to kill them. They then proceed to beg all the competition for help in return for lotting rights. People would say no and let them die, but some shells are morons and too scared to lose claim. Would you encourage that too?
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Despite being completely irrelevant, I have no problem with this. If I were in an end-game ls (which I'm not), I would just laugh at the group that claimed and died. If someone made a deal with them to get the claim traded, then more power to them. They are smart, and probably will get something out of it. Or they will get shafted. Either way, I didn't get the original claim in the first place so I don't care.
 
Rappa said:
That's just it though, they'd be up there anyway. There's nothing that says "If you aren't in a sky ls you cannot kill sky mobs". They can be up there to get pop items to sell for gil, to try to use to get into a sky ls, to skillup, to try to get an item, whatever the hell they want to. You're trying to make sky into some kind of elite club, which it isn't. Making deals with lses is something that always has been and always will be in this game. You can't get rid of it.
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It's the same argument used against RMT. If you don't buy, they will go away. If you don't pop, then they won't claim and they'll go away. In the end, it means more pop items for the people who join serious sky shells. In the end it comes down to is it worth trading a 1-2 million between 20-30 people or a better chance at haidates (you can insert any sky item really, it's just haidates are more sought after) for a LS member. I'm not saying you have to take it serious, but in all honesty, wouldn't it benefit you more to not pop? And the argument that there is more than enough despot just doesn't hold. If that was the case, then getting haidates wouldn't still take months to do. At the very least, people are happier that Ulli is fixed, but there is still a bottle neck at Despot.
 
Lavi said:
At the very least, people are happier that Ulli is fixed, but there is still a bottle neck at Despot.
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In the least possible way, yes Despot is the bottle neck of sky, in that is the most needed pop item now, but it just simply isn't possible for it to actually inhibit an LS from popping anything. Yes, its a bottle neck in sky (sorta like how parsing is cheating), but no one would consider it as such.
 
Comparing this to RMT makes no sense. RMT don't get pop items in sky so they can ask other shells to kill the mobs for them, they get the pop items to sell drops. Really, this is kinda anti-RMT because someone's going and getting the pop items themselves rather than just paying cheaters to do it for them and then offering a legit shell a benefit too. Unless you're comparing sky shells to RMT? I'm kinda lost in your argument now. Unless you're just mad that RMT make sky more crowded but morally it's not a problem for someone to use them?
 
Why would you derail a thread with an opinion that wasn't even asked for? Go post your own thread on the FB if you want to hear your own voice so much.
 
Lavi said:
It's the same argument used against RMT. If you don't buy, they will go away. If you don't pop, then they won't claim and they'll go away. In the end, it means more pop items for the people who join serious sky shells. In the end it comes down to is it worth trading a 1-2 million between 20-30 people or a better chance at haidates (you can insert any sky item really, it's just haidates are more sought after) for a LS member. I'm not saying you have to take it serious, but in all honesty, wouldn't it benefit you more to not pop? And the argument that there is more than enough despot just doesn't hold. If that was the case, then getting haidates wouldn't still take months to do. At the very least, people are happier that Ulli is fixed, but there is still a bottle neck at Despot.
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Lavi I think you forget that there are people who actually buy pop items, most of them are Japanese albeit, but still sky is an easy way to make a quick buck. Most of the NMs are on a 2-4hour pop, or are forced to pop now. Going to sky with a group of six for 3 hours and coming back with 2-4M in pop items isn't unheard of at all.

So no, this isn't like the RMT situation, if you don't pop for them they won't go away, they'll sell that set of pop items, and if they are like most of the percentage of this population they'll be babies about it and want to fuck over the LS who said no to begin with by counter camping them some more while making a quick buck.
 
Didn't read a lot of this but "proposals" of this nature are retarded.

If you can't find the time to put into the game (or more specifically a certain team) to earn said item, you shouldn't have the opportunity to have said item. Period.

The whole point of progressing in an MMO is supposed to be the challenge of earning the right to improve your character. If you can't put in the time and/or suck at the game, you shouldn't be able to wear the best gear. If your team isn't as talented as another team, your team doesn't deserve to wear the better stuff. That's the hardcore competitive nature of MMO that I was missing in FFXI. Its just more laid back in this regard than any other MMO I've played.

I respect the sacrifices men and women overseas make for this country but I still don't buy even that as an excuse to get the "hook up" in a fake world. If you're coming home soon, join a God shell then and earn the item like everyone else. You'll feel more accomplished that way.

Though I suppose sky is a huge joke these days anyways so maybe I'm just talking out my ass. /shrug
 
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