Gods Shell Proposal

[Anaeran]

http://www.qcdn.org/ffxi/showthread.php?t=48256

In the end the shell got screwed over but that isn't the point. The point is they requested help from the outside and they got it.

Given the two people at the top of each of the groups involved, I'd say this is a pretty weak example.

We can expect this kind of drama from these two.

 

[Itachiii]

How is that a weak example? Just because of who was involved? How does that change anything?

 

[Mistra]

You earn it when it drops. That's not according to me, not according to you. According to SE directly. This game is a time sink, a huge time sink and if you can't handle it, then play WoW. There are a lot of other factors that go along with it as well. This game is an MMO, not just an RPG. Half the game is meant to be played as a team and achievements are meant to be done as groups, not solo. What achievement is there in buying everything? Not much. They're not meant to be soloed, they are meant to be done as groups and even more, they are EX which means you are meant to participate otherwise everything would be AH sellable.

Yeah, exactly. It's earned when it drops. Trying to tell me that your implications prior were anything but involving a morale structure behind actually working for the item is preposterous. An item drops, you get it. Guess what, it's yours. SE demerits no actual stipluation on how exactly you come about gaining "lotting rights" for this item.

In fact, it doesn't even really matter your opinion on the matter or not, no one's opinion here does. Not even mine, and hell, I'm with you in this regard. Yeah, sure, we feel that more work should be involved into obtaining this. Yeah, the game can be one hell of a timesink, if you let it be only that. If it entertains you, then it can be more than just a timesink. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

To regress, this topic was made by a man who wished for Byakko's Haidate. He said he had his own pop items, and stipulated what he presumed would be fair deals. At that point, it's a linkshell's discretion, I'll say it again. You coming here and preaching the morality of the issue is totally farse and irrelivant. The guy stated a clear want, and it's apparent at this point that someone entertained the idea-Olrox. Case closed Lavi. All your breathy subterfuge is really pointless in this case. He got what he wanted in the first place, and you've gone unheard. I do believe if the guy wanted all of our opinions on the matter, as he aptly stated he didn't in the first page, he would have gratiously asked for it, in which case yeah, your responses would be justified and whatnot.

Really Lavi, I have nothing personal against you, but stop trying to play the rabblerouser.

 

[Raesvelg]

KS99..1 person farms seals gets an orb

Shouts for 17 ppl to go...

He/she gets the item he/she wants...

the rest of the ppl free lot the rest.

Precisely. Much like the situation here, it's entirely possible that the participating members won't make off with anything worthwhile, but that's a risk they chose to take in order to have a shot at some measure of profit that they wouldn't have otherwise.

You can argue the provenance of the pop set, but arguing whether someone has "earned" something is asinine. This is a group oriented game. You earn what other people are willing to allow you to earn, most of the time. If a shell is willing to pop Byakko for him, and he gets the Haidate, then he earned them.

In many shells, if you take the time to get the ToD on something and the LS decides to camp it, you get first crack at drops. Did you earn those drops? All you did was sit around and wait for something to spawn, after all. Not exactly difficult work, though it can be somewhat time consuming. Hell, if you set it up right, you could get a precise ToD to the second without ever having to be there.

 

[kaikyaku]

I am an elitist prick though, I'm not arguing with you there. I play MMO's to compete. That's how I roll and you'll get over it I'm sure. If that makes me "immature" you may want to look up the definition of the word before adding it to your regular vocabulary. I'm not an asshole if you took the time to get to know me. If wanting people to earn their status in a game by putting in the time and effort makes me one in your eyes then so be it. I won't lose any sleep over it. I'm sure you won't either.

I won't derail anymore on this thread after this but I do think the two arguments very much are on topic.

Anaeran, you said I was taking a pot shot at you. I am truly sorry if you thought that but it wasn't you I was taking a pot shot at, but your idea you hold so dearly. Your idea does not comprise you of who you are and I make no assumptions they dictate your maturity lvl as a whole.

Immature: emotionally undeveloped; juvenile; childish.

Immaturity is mindset. It's not your social stature, or your educational prowess, or your economical well being.

The danger with stating (as fact) that someone like Lews does not deserve a chance at a digital item in an entertainment game is this: that these mindsets spread and become commonplace as appropriate. You are close to being an adult in every sense of the word. At this point in your life you should know you have the abilty to influence and mold those around you.

There are too many children and young adults who play this game. If you truly view yourself as "Mature" Think about what you are leaving behind.

Knowing Lews' background i would have absolutely no problem with helping him out, and i would do so without doubt of wrongdoing.

 

[Anaeran]

I won't derail anymore on this thread after this but I do think the two arguments very much are on topic.

Anaeran, you said I was taking a pot shot at you. I am truly sorry if you thought that but it wasn't you I was taking a pot shot at, but your idea you hold so dearly. Your idea does not comprise you of who you are and I make no assumptions they dictate your maturity lvl as a whole.

Immature: emotionally undeveloped; juvenile; childish.

Immaturity is mindset. It's not your social stature, or your educational prowess, or your economical well being.

The danger with stating (as fact) that someone like Lews does not deserve a chance at a digital item in an entertainment game is this: that these mindsets spread and become commonplace as appropriate. You are close to being an adult in every sense of the word. At this point in your life you should know you have the abilty to influence and mold those around you.

There are too many children and young adults who play this game. If you truly view yourself as "Mature" Think about what you are leaving behind.

Knowing Lews' background i would have absolutely no problem with helping him out, and i would do so without doubt of wrongdoing.

Are you even reading my posts? I'm disagreeing with you and offering an alternative perspective.

And as stated numerous times in my other posts, this isn't even about Lews specifically, for me at least. I don't really care if he ends up getting his item. The whole reason for my involvement was to discuss what I've outlined in my other posts, but people can't handle the opinion they don't want to hear.

Everyone seems to think that I'm saying I'm right and you're all wrong and that's the end of it-- of course I think I'm right but that doesn't make it so.

I've only been posting here to get to certain points in the discussion and maybe come up with some creative solutions for the gaming industry in the process but so far nobody is capable of taking the discussion to that level without crying foul and labeling me a demon. I stand by everything I've said here and if anyone wants to discuss situations like this some more, feel free to PM me.

I'm done posting here though.

 

[Olrox]

To even denote this as anything worthwhile as reading, I cannot believe there is such an arguement over something that effects no one in this game except Lews and the shell who helps him. It is not stopping anyone from getting the same item, nor is it hurting anyone when/if he obtains it. If people didn't help people, this game wouldn't exist. I really wish this thread would be locked so these board leeches can go suck the fun out of someone else's game, oh and by the way did you forget this is a video game? Game being the key word.

 

[Mistra]

To even denote this as anything worthwhile as reading, I cannot believe there is such an arguement over something that effects no one in this game except Lews and the shell who helps him. It is not stopping anyone from getting the same item, nor is it hurting anyone when/if he obtains it. If people didn't help people, this game wouldn't exist. I really wish this thread would be locked so these board leeches can go suck the fun out of someone else's game, oh and by the way did you forget this is a video game? Game being the key word.

I think Lavi has, Olrox. Thanks for helping the guy out, that was awesome.

 

[Inunabe]

You're right, FFXI is pretty casual in this regard. I moved on to Vanguard and simply voiced my opinion on this particular issue. I'm sorry that you're not happy with my take on this issue, but it is still my opinion. If you don't care to hear it then don't read it.

If you'd like to delve into my personal life without knowing a single thing about who I am or where I come from, here's a short BIO of what I've got goin on--

- I have a great internship and I attend college full time (Majoring in Criminal Law with a minor in history- sitting on a 3.5 GPA Senior year)
- I have a ton of friends whom I go out with on a regular basis, attend parties etc.
- I have an apartment with 3 other friends of mine and we enjoy having people over-- swing by
- I'm currently single (any classy ladies out there, look me up ) and loving life right now.

I game on the side of all that and play an officer role with an extremely "elitist" (still don't understand how wanting to be the best at something is a negative thing) guild in Pravus Dei. We're not bad people, but we don't like to lose. /shrug

I play when I feel like playing (fairly often), and I play to win. That's how I enjoy MMO. Believe it or not, competition is a founding principle upon which ANY games in this genre are built. Trust me, I know. I've been playing with people who make these games since the genre gained popularity in 1999. I'm currently playing with people who have had a hand in developing Vanguard, EQ1 and EQ2. Content is designed in a manner that promotes competition. It helps these games thrive. I've had countless discussions on this very issue with the very people who are providing you people with enjoyable content in the games you all love and play.

I am an elitist prick though, I'm not arguing with you there. I play MMO's to compete. That's how I roll and you'll get over it I'm sure. If that makes me "immature" you may want to look up the definition of the word before adding it to your regular vocabulary. I'm not an asshole if you took the time to get to know me. If wanting people to earn their status in a game by putting in the time and effort makes me one in your eyes then so be it. I won't lose any sleep over it. I'm sure you won't either.

Its always funny to me that the casual "I want it handed to me on a silver platter" people demand that we cater to their needs yet can't understand that we enjoy playing the game our way too. Wanting to compete and earn items in a game is evil. Its hypocritical even. If you don't like the hardcore atmosphere, fine, we don't like the casual atmosphere. Deal with it? At the end of the day, you play your way and I play mine. That won't change.

Do you really think my dislike for people getting items without putting in the usual time is going to change anything? I understand that I am, in fact, the man but I don't think I've quite reached the level of importance required for all future MMO evolution to revolve around what I think...













...yet! >

There's the issue right there. You can play when you want to. He's in the fucking military, fighting for us. He has his time limited and his schedule dictated to him.

Seriously, you're going to college, and I know from experience, that even with all that, it's easy to find the time to schedule out time for the game, or even to play whenever.

Where exactly do you get the idea that he's asking for it to be handed to him on a silver platter? In all honestly it looks to me like he's done more work for it then anyone in a sky/endgame ls does for their god and pop items. How much time did he spend on farming the money to buy the pop items that he did? Probably alot more time then you or I spend in our endgame shell to get the items. We show up, it takes maybe 2-4 hrs to get a few of the pop items. And then about 5-20 minutes per fight for the lesser gods and bang we get to lot our items. Pretty easy no? Not to mention how much time he put into getting the money he's offering to pay the LS that runs him.

I didn't want to jump in on this, but show some respect for those serving our country. Don't use a moral argument in game that you wouldn't use irl. You want your freedoms, your opportunity to make some money, Go put the time into the armed forces and earn that stuff.

 

[Blackchaoshero]

well, it's been a while since i checked this thread but...

once again, lavi, everything you said to me was more idiocy and diversion fromt he fact that you have no basis for argument at all.. it may be midnight and i may be drunk and it's sadder still that i can see that right now. i never said every shell on the server was clean... or ANY shell on the server was clean.. i said your shell is the worst for it on the big shells of the endgame and you are, beyond denial or argument unless a lot has changed in a month...
as to Anaeran, we've had our disagreements before to the point that hen someoen posted shit on his blog he blamed me out of hand. we've agreed to just leave eachother be and so i have.

he's in Afghanistan not Iraq.. i know so many peons such as yourself can't manage to seperate two different wars/countries in their ignorant fox-following skulls but maybe it'll sink in one day that you're retarded and hopefully this knowledge will hit home with the rest. go die alone in a hole with all your friends

 

[Blazeoffury]

There's the issue right there. You can play when you want to. He's in the fucking military, fighting for us. He has his time limited and his schedule dictated to him.

Seriously, you're going to college, and I know from experience, that even with all that, it's easy to find the time to schedule out time for the game, or even to play whenever.

Where exactly do you get the idea that he's asking for it to be handed to him on a silver platter? In all honestly it looks to me like he's done more work for it then anyone in a sky/endgame ls does for their god and pop items. How much time did he spend on farming the money to buy the pop items that he did? Probably alot more time then you or I spend in our endgame shell to get the items. We show up, it takes maybe 2-4 hrs to get a few of the pop items. And then about 5-20 minutes per fight for the lesser gods and bang we get to lot our items. Pretty easy no? Not to mention how much time he put into getting the money he's offering to pay the LS that runs him.

I didn't want to jump in on this, but show some respect for those serving our country. Don't use a moral argument in game that you wouldn't use irl. You want your freedoms, your opportunity to make some money, Go put the time into the armed forces and earn that stuff.

You're not even recongnizing the point of what Ana is even saying. His whole point is this IS a game, this is not real life. Just because you have can't play as much as you'd like to doesn't mean you shouldn't have to put in the same amount of time that everyone else does.

This whole argument of "He's in the military, blah blah blah" holds ABSOLUTELY NO RELEVENCE at all. Where this a real life situation we were talking about I'd concur with you, and say hell ya he deserves special treatment, the guy is busting his ass off for you and me. But, THIS ARGUMENT IS ABOUT A GAME NOT REAL LIFE so as awesomeas what he is doing for his country is, it holds no relevence to the issue at hand.

Sure he won't have the best gear for his virtual jobs as someone who has the oppurtunity to play the game all of the time will, but also that is to be expected. The more time you put in this timesink the more you will get out of it (read: usually).

This is a game, in the end it doesn't matter. When SE closes its servers down noone is going to remember you in a year or two because of your gear, people will remember you because of the experiences you gave them, because of the kindness you revealed to them. In Lews case, everyone will remember him because while he may not have the time to play the game as much as he would like, he does spend most of his time online helping others, much as he does in his real life, help others.

Am I against what Lews is asking for? No, I am not, I am simply trying to show you where Anaraen is coming from in his argument, to show you the points that everyone seems to blinded too. In this virtual reality, there is no room for the procedures of everyday reality. It's harsh, it's cruel, it's life.

 

[Inunabe]

You're not even recongnizing the point of what Ana is even saying. His whole point is this IS a game, this is not real life. Just because you have can't play as much as you'd like to doesn't mean you shouldn't have to put in the same amount of time that everyone else does.

This whole argument of "He's in the military, blah blah blah" holds ABSOLUTELY NO RELEVENCE at all. Where this a real life situation we were talking about I'd concur with you, and say hell ya he deserves special treatment, the guy is busting his ass off for you and me. But, THIS ARGUMENT IS ABOUT A GAME NOT REAL LIFE so as awesomeas what he is doing for his country is, it holds no relevence to the issue at hand.

Sure he won't have the best gear for his virtual jobs as someone who has the oppurtunity to play the game all of the time will, but also that is to be expected. The more time you put in this timesink the more you will get out of it (read: usually).

This is a game, in the end it doesn't matter. When SE closes its servers down noone is going to remember you in a year or two because of your gear, people will remember you because of the experiences you gave them, because of the kindness you revealed to them. In Lews case, everyone will remember him because while he may not have the time to play the game as much as he would like, he does spend most of his time online helping others, much as he does in his real life, help others.

Am I against what Lews is asking for? No, I am not, I am simply trying to show you where Anaraen is coming from in his argument, to show you the points that everyone seems to blinded too. In this virtual reality, there is no room for the procedures of everyday reality. It's harsh, it's cruel, it's life.

I will agree to this point Blaze, but I will reiterate that it still doesn't change that Lews probably spent as much if not more time in farming the money for the pop items and LS payment as we do for our pops in our endgame ls.

I see Ana's points, but I still believe that just because you're limited in time it's no reason you can't still have great gear. It just may take different methods, and more time to get. Both of which Lews seems to have come up with.

 

[Blazeoffury]

I will agree to this point Blaze, but I will reiterate that it still doesn't change that Lews probably spent as much if not more time in farming the money for the pop items and LS payment as we do for our pops in our endgame ls.

I see Ana's points, but I still believe that just because you're limited in time it's no reason you can't still have great gear. It just may take different methods, and more time to get. Both of which Lews seems to have come up with.

It's going to take weeks for the normal player to have lotting rights on a pair of Byakko's Haidate. During those weeks he/she is expected to attend farmings and god fights to earn points to earn the lotting rights of the haidate. So we'll say the average time frame for the normal player to obtain byakko's haidate is around 1-2 months (and that's pushing it for some shells). We'll say each farming run will last the usual of 5 hours/night and as most shells will farm 2-3 nigths a week, so a 15hr/week maximum of farming, followed by a 3-4 hour night of killing mini's. Say it takes the normal person a month to obtain lotting rights to the haidate, thats 15*4 = 60hrs of farming. 3*4= 12 hours of killing the mini gods. That comes up to a total of 72 hours of farming and fighting gods to obtain his/her lotting rights on Byakko's Haidate. (This of course doesn't include around 2-4 hours the shells most likely used each week to fight kirin as well, but we'll leave that out of this eqaution<sp>).

Sure it's easy to get a Byakko pop set now, but just because the linkshell gets a popset doesn't mean that everyone in the shell who wants the haidate will be allowed to lot on the haidate if they just happen to drop from that pop set.

Now let's look at Lews time frame. I'm not sure how much time he has per week to play so I'll say a minimul of 3 hours to play in a weeks times. He and a friend can easily duo Diorite and duo Ullikummi without a problem within those 3 hours. Also, if his luck holds and his friend is a rdm, they can duo Despot without much problem as well. All it takes is a little bit of time and a lot of running in circles. It would most likely take a maximum of 6-9 hours for him to obtain his popset for Byakko. Now, if he hires a shell to pop it for him, that's another 20-30min max. Including say 6 more hours for his time farming 1M in gil he comes up to a total of 15.5 hours maximum for him to obtain a popset, gil, and lotting rights for the haidate.

So we are looking at 15.5 hours of work vs 72 hours of work. So to be fair and to be honest with you Inu, I highly highly doubt that Lews has put in the same amount of work for his popset and lotting rights to the haidate as the normal sky ls member has put in.

 

[Inunabe]

It's going to take weeks for the normal player to have lotting rights on a pair of Byakko's Haidate. During those weeks he/she is expected to attend farmings and god fights to earn points to earn the lotting rights of the haidate. So we'll say the average time frame for the normal player to obtain byakko's haidate is around 1-2 months (and that's pushing it for some shells). We'll say each farming run will last the usual of 5 hours/night and as most shells will farm 2-3 nigths a week, so a 15hr/week maximum of farming, followed by a 3-4 hour night of killing mini's. Say it takes the normal person a month to obtain lotting rights to the haidate, thats 15*4 = 60hrs of farming. 3*4= 12 hours of killing the mini gods. That comes up to a total of 72 hours of farming and fighting gods to obtain his/her lotting rights on Byakko's Haidate. (This of course doesn't include around 2-4 hours the shells most likely used each week to fight kirin as well, but we'll leave that out of this eqaution<sp>).

Sure it's easy to get a Byakko pop set now, but just because the linkshell gets a popset doesn't mean that everyone in the shell who wants the haidate will be allowed to lot on the haidate if they just happen to drop from that pop set.

Now let's look at Lews time frame. I'm not sure how much time he has per week to play so I'll say a minimul of 3 hours to play in a weeks times. He and a friend can easily duo Diorite and duo Ullikummi without a problem within those 3 hours. Also, if his luck holds and his friend is a rdm, they can duo Despot without much problem as well. All it takes is a little bit of time and a lot of running in circles. It would most likely take a maximum of 6-9 hours for him to obtain his popset for Byakko. Now, if he hires a shell to pop it for him, that's another 20-30min max. Including say 6 more hours for his time farming 1M in gil he comes up to a total of 15.5 hours maximum for him to obtain a popset, gil, and lotting rights for the haidate.

So we are looking at 15.5 hours of work vs 72 hours of work. So to be fair and to be honest with you Inu, I highly highly doubt that Lews has put in the same amount of work for his popset and lotting rights to the haidate as the normal sky ls member has put in.

Alright then ^^; I'll concede my point. While neither of us really know how long it took him to farm up 1 mil gil maybe 2, I was thinking it took alot longer. I was using my own gil making expeditions, which usually turn out to be horribly slow, as the example for my basis. Considering that Lews, in all odds is farming with a job other then bard, he probably does make the gil faster.

 

[Rappa]

I still don't see why anyone cares. Sky was serious business like 2-3 years ago. I went up with a social ls like 3 months ago and in the span of a month we got 10+ haidates, mine included. People setting up deals like this is NOT going to affect ANYONE. If a shell wants to do it, fine. If they don't, that's also fine. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL AN INDIVIDUAL PLAYER OR ANOTHER LINKSHELL WHAT THEY CAN OR CANNOT DO WITH THEIR OWN TIME, MONEY, POP ITEMS, ETC. Don't like it? Make your own damn shell and turn down all the offers you'd like. You don't own ffxi, you don't own members of other linkshells, you don't own individuals who aren't in your linkshell, you don't own virtual items that are used to spawn virtual mobs in a virtual world, etc. Fuck off.

 

[Lavi]

I still don't see why anyone cares. Sky was serious business like 2-3 years ago. I went up with a social ls like 3 months ago and in the span of a month we got 10+ haidates, mine included. People setting up deals like this is NOT going to affect ANYONE. If a shell wants to do it, fine. If they don't, that's also fine. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL AN INDIVIDUAL PLAYER OR ANOTHER LINKSHELL WHAT THEY CAN OR CANNOT DO WITH THEIR OWN TIME, MONEY, POP ITEMS, ETC. Don't like it? Make your own damn shell and turn down all the offers you'd like. You don't own ffxi, you don't own members of other linkshells, you don't own individuals who aren't in your linkshell, you don't own virtual items that are used to spawn virtual mobs in a virtual world, etc. Fuck off.

Can you say straw man argument?

 

[Makelith]

Care to explain why?

 

[Rappa]

Can you say straw man argument?

I can say it just fine, but it doesn't apply to anything I said. Your main argument is that if a linkshell is willing to make a deal with someone that more and more people will jump on that deal which will make sky a worse bottleneck. I've already explained that this won't happen since it's impossible to "bottleneck" something that pops 10-12 times a day. You don't get him one day, you get him the next. Unless your linkshell is very poor at planning how to farm sky, you have plenty to do while you are up there between despot pops.

The real problematic people that "bottleneck" sky are the RMT that are up there 24/7. Do you honestly think they monitor qcdn looking for people to take advantage of? One singular person trying to get some help from a WILLING sky linkshell isn't going to destroy anything. It happens every day. It's happened before this topic and it will happen after this topic. So to answer your argument, it's none of your business what anyone does up in sky, so stay out of it. If you want to discuss the morality of farming your own pop items and getting a shell to use them for you, do it somewhere else. This is borderline flame, definitely troll, and does not belong in this topic. If your sky shell fails at farming that's your own problem, don't make it qcdn's because we don't care. This topic was already resolved anyway since a linkshell helped him.

 

[Lavi]

I can say it just fine, but it doesn't apply to anything I said. Your main argument is that if a linkshell is willing to make a deal with someone that more and more people will jump on that deal which will make sky a worse bottleneck. I've already explained that this won't happen since it's impossible to "bottleneck" something that pops 10-12 times a day. You don't get him one day, you get him the next. Unless your linkshell is very poor at planning how to farm sky, you have plenty to do while you are up there between despot pops.

The real problematic people that "bottleneck" sky are the RMT that are up there 24/7. Do you honestly think they monitor qcdn looking for people to take advantage of? One singular person trying to get some help from a WILLING sky linkshell isn't going to destroy anything. It happens every day. It's happened before this topic and it will happen after this topic. So to answer your argument, it's none of your business what anyone does up in sky, so stay out of it. If you want to discuss the morality of farming your own pop items and getting a shell to use them for you, do it somewhere else. This is borderline flame, definitely troll, and does not belong in this topic. If your sky shell fails at farming that's your own problem, don't make it qcdn's because we don't care. This topic was already resolved anyway since a linkshell helped him.

You are acting as if these ideas are being forced on people when they are clearly not and regardless they physically cannot (something you and the mass majority do not comprehend). To put it in perspective, if I had said I was religious and you replied by saying I was forcing my beliefs on you. I did no such thing, but since you didn't agree with my beliefs, you just needed something to strengthen your stance and diminish my own. Weak, but not entirely unexpected from you.

You don't just miss him one day and get him the next, it doesn't work like that. Most groups only farm twice a week so missing once means a delay of 3-4 days. 10-12 is a pretty high estimate as well, I've seen him pop mostly around the third hour and even waited longer. Everytime you miss him, it means the shell has to spend more of their time there and as most sky shells/players can attest, it gets very boring and tedious. If there was a way to improve and speed up the process, I'd do it. Come to think of it, wouldn't removing competition do just that? Or more to the point, just not assist your competition? They are after all, after the same pop items. Again, if you pop for one person today and they don't get haidates, what's to stop them from camping next week and doing it all over again? That means two entire chances you lost.

Funny you mention RMT, where do you think THOSE stones go? Two places, either a LS or a single player looking to avoid the entire sky experience. Hmmm...

As for the bolded, I've seen plenty of topics unfold and offshoot topics form. This is just that and you're the one trolling. If you don't like where it has and is going, take your own advice and just fuck off.

 

[Rappa]

You are acting as if these ideas are being forced on people when they are clearly not and regardless they physically cannot (something you and the mass majority do not comprehend). To put it in perspective, if I had said I was religious and you replied by saying I was forcing my beliefs on you. I did no such thing, but since you didn't agree with my beliefs, you just needed something to strengthen your stance and diminish my own. Weak, but not entirely unexpected from you.

So basically you're saying that while you have the right to give an opinion one way, people replying against it is somehow different from you giving your own opinion? To borrow your own analogy, that's like you discussing Christian beliefs then a Muslim coming into the topic to discuss their beliefs and you telling them not to reply because your religion is right. I guess not following Lavism = weak.

You don't just miss him one day and get him the next, it doesn't work like that. Most groups only farm twice a week so missing once means a delay of 3-4 days. 10-12 is a pretty high estimate as well, I've seen him pop mostly around the third hour and even waited longer. Everytime you miss him, it means the shell has to spend more of their time there and as most sky shells/players can attest, it gets very boring and tedious. If there was a way to improve and speed up the process, I'd do it. Come to think of it, wouldn't removing competition do just that? Or more to the point, just not assist your competition? They are after all, after the same pop items. Again, if you pop for one person today and they don't get haidates, what's to stop them from camping next week and doing it all over again? That means two entire chances you lost.

Again, this isn't anyone else's fault but your sky shell. If they are poor planners, or they can "only" go up twice a week versus another shell that can go up longer, that isn't the other shell's fault. Your shell doesn't own sky just like no other sky shell owns it. You go up there when you can and you have a set plan and you follow it. You win some you lose some, but getting pissy at getting outclaimed on a mob is silly. If you don't like sky's "bottleneck" of despot, why would you do end-game at all? Camping hnms is way worse than sky, and much more rampant with cheaters. Though I guess that kinda works in the favor of some shells. At least despot repops fairly routinely and in a particular timeframe that results in having to camp him about an hour tops at the most, if even. By the time despot dies your shell should have already gotten another god pop set unless you go at a retarded time like Tuesday night when 4 other shells are up there. Again, that's called poor planning. When my social went to sky we went at a time when it was empty and walked away every day with 3-4 pop sets, yes byakko included.

Funny you mention RMT, where do you think THOSE stones go? Two places, either a LS or a single player looking to avoid the entire sky experience. Hmmm...

RMT don't really sell stones anymore. If you were actually paying attention up there you'd note that most RMT groups are pretty decked out in sky gear since they make more gil from selling god drops than from stones. Unless you are going to start the tired argument of "omg buying d.ingots = supporting rmt!", you lost with this point.

As for the bolded, I've seen plenty of topics unfold and offshoot topics form. This is just that and you're the one trolling. If you don't like where it has and is going, take your own advice and just fuck off.

You'd like that, wouldn't you?