Gods Shell Proposal

[Lews]

Hello,

I have a proposal that I would like to try and get done. My ninja is very near 75 and I would like to get Byakko’s Haidate (Yes I know most coveted piece in the game etc etc) I have my own pop set (farming and found a autumnstone for less then 1 million in a Bazaar) but due to my Deployment to Afghanistan I cannot join a Gods shell till I return to the US

I would like to sponsor a Byakko fight for any Gods LS that would be interested with the following possibilities:

Option 1: Use my pop set
I get Byakkos if they drop or if they don’t I get the Dryadic Abj (Top choice)
LS gets all other drops to include the seal and Dryadic if Byakkos drop

Option 2: Use my pop set
I pay LS 425,000 gil (17 people x 25,000)
I get the top 2 choices
LS gets everything else

Option 3: Use my pop set
I pay the LS 1,000,000 gil
I get all drops

Option 4: Use my pop set and Negotiate with the LS prior to pop

I understand that there will be some concern about this but I do not feel this is any different then a Monk sponsoring a BB run etc. The LS does not have to spend the time farming the pop items and all it will cost is 30 minutes of their time and they will gain more from doing this then from not.

If anyone is interested please PM me and we can work something out.

Thank you,
Lews

 

[Olrox]

30 minutes? omg if aynone takes 30 to kill Byakko i quit! I'm sure my LS would be willing to do option 1 ( haidate or D legs, one or the other) I will talk to them, /tell or PM me and we can work out a day to do this.

 

[Lavi]

I said it before, this sets a bad precedence. Allowing one person to use "their" pop items to just move ahead of any members waiting on items voids the purpose of a sky shell. While you might not think it, this does you more harm than good. What you are telling people is it's acceptable to just use pop items and get any old shell to kill which will give others the same idea. Now ask yourself where they got these pop items.

Option 1: A shell broke and they had those pop items left to them.
Option 2: They bought them.
Option 3: They stole them.
Option 4: They farmed them.

Now option 3 is obviously bad, they stole them and allowing them to use your shell to kill sends the message that it's acceptable to steal and you condone it. Duh. Option 1 is actually of a similar vein but the least damaging. The person may have had pops for whatever reason, but technically those pops belong to the ENTIRE shell and not just one person. In all fairness, the person holding it has no real right to keep the drops and all remaining pops should have been used by the shell with the rewards given among the members, not just one person. In reality, this isn't much different than option 3 since they took something that wasn't entirely theirs.

Option 2 and 4 are of a similar vein but to a different degree. Some group counter camped you in order to get what you need and now if you pop, you are not only justifying them from counter camping you then, but in the future as well. Perhaps it's not them next time, but another group; the fact still remains, you are progressing them at your own expense. They got Despot today, you pop Byakko for them and they take haidates. Someone else hears that you would do that, so they too camp despot and you lose another despot to a group that shouldn't be in sky. Option 2, although same, it's a different group camping you, RMT most likely. Now you're encouraging RMT to camp you further and sell the drops.

Go ahead, pop items for random players who haven't earned their own in sky. It's really not my problem, I have most of my sky items already or at least the most important ones for the time being.

 

[Raesvelg]

Sadly, there are plenty of shells willing to take in members who have outright stolen pop sets from their previous shell (though how the hell they justify it is beyond me), so I doubt this particular scheme is somehow going to lead to any sort of mass chaos or confusion.

 

[Lews]

Interesting

Sorry you feel that way Lavi - I don’t see how this sets any precedence but you are free to your Opinion. My old LS was TitansofSky and feel free to ask them if I stole their pop set. If you think an investigation is warranted so you can then Flame - feel free to start and post whatever you find. I doubt you will find anything - I have been on Quez for about 20 months now and haven’t made myself into the best player but I highly doubt you will find anyone saying that "Lews" is a thief or a PoS or anything else. Until you do I would refrain from alluding or accusing me of anything.

One final question I have for you is: Since I do not have the time to spend the hours currently in a Gods shell that have set time schedules that I cannot possibly make – you are saying that I do not deserve to have any piece of Gods gear? Even if I spent the time farming one item and then crafting and farming to get the other?

Best of luck to you and proceed to flame, rate down and libel away.

Edit: One last thing - if you dont want this done in your LS then dont do it - everything else that happens with other peoples LS is really none of your concern.

 

[Lavi]

Sorry you guys feel that way - I don’t see how this sets any precedence but you are free to your Opinion. My old LS was TitansofSky and feel free to ask them if I stole their pop set. If you think an investigation is warranted so you can then Flame - feel free to start and post whatever you find. I doubt you will find anything - I have been on Quez for about 20 months now and haven’t made myself into the best player but I highly doubt you will find anyone saying that "Lews" is a thief or a PoS or anything else. Until you do I would refrain from alluding or accusing me of anything.

One final question I have for you is: Since I do not have the time to spend the hours currently in a Gods shell that have set time schedules that I cannot possibly make – you are saying that I do not deserve to have any piece of Gods gear? Even if I spent the time farming one item and then crafting and farming to get the other? That doesn’t sound the least bit elitist to me – nope not one bit.

Best of luck to you guys and proceed to flame, rate down and liable away.

Simply put, no you don't deserve it. Maybe you did put it a lot of work into your sky shell, maybe not; however, that's not at issue. You set a precedence wanting some shell to give you lotting rights to an item that many people in every sky shell are still waiting for. If you collect on it, then others will try as well. So instead of an entire shell working to get Despot and Ulli, you have smaller groups who will counter camp entire shells and then use those shells to kill Byakko. Is that fair? You compete versus the shell for those pop items and while you did earn the right to them, you didn't earn the haidates without killing Byakko and you can't, at least not on your own. So the shell then kills it for you, at the expense of their time and while they do get some reward, they are also greatly hurting themselves. If they kill it, more will come wanting the same thing. Those people will compete for Despot giving those shells a harder time at despot. It's in their own interest not to.

Take it as you will, but helping you means hurting themselves in the future. As for your questions, I can only assume you spent time crafting and farming to buy a pop items and in all likelihood, off RMT. That makes it all the worse so to reiterate what I already said: no, you don't deserve it since you can so callously do so.

 

[Lews]

Well as I said you are entitled to your opinion.

Moderators can you please lock this thread. In no way does it violate any part of QCDN policy and is not meant to become a Flameboard thread.

Lavi feel free to start a Flameboard thread about me or about LS that help “bad” people like me or whatever you want to do. But you are accusing me of doing something without a single piece of evidence. You very obviously alluded that I was either a thief – gil buyer – RMT support etc without a single piece of proof. And not all people that bazaar Autumnstones are RMTs. It is not hard to beat Ulli with a good pt.

So by all means start a flameboard flame about “Lews the Terrible” (hopefully you can get Screen shots or people to state that I am horrible) but other they that this is not the flameboard nor meant to be a flame thread.

 

[Lavi]

Well as I said you are entitled to your opinion.

Moderators can you please lock this thread. In no way does it violate any part of QCDN policy and is not meant to become a Flameboard thread.

Lavi feel free to start a Flameboard thread about me or about LS that help “bad” people like me or whatever you want to do. But you are accusing me of doing something without a single piece of evidence. You very obviously alluded that I was either a thief – gil buyer – RMT support etc without a single piece of proof. And not all people that bazaar Autumnstones are RMTs. It is not hard to beat Ulli with a good pt.

So by all means start a flameboard flame about “Lews the Terrible” (hopefully you can get Screen shots or people to state that I am horrible) but other they that this is not the flameboard nor meant to be a flame thread.

Yah... someone disagrees with you, gives a valid argument so it must automatically be a flame? Lock it quick!

 

[jyakotsu]

Lavi he did nothing wrong. It was a simple request to ask ls out there if there was interest in making some gil off of someone's pop set. If he farmed it then he farmed it, if he stole it(which he has asked you to ask his old sky shell) then he will be ousted in the game by Titansofsky. He is offering a shell compensation as you see in his options, and he is laying it out there outright so that these shells know there is no intention of him joining their shells.

Like i said, if it was a stolen pop set that would make it a different story. But it seems like he legitimately farmed a despot and a Diornite/autumnstone. What is wrong with asking a shell if they'd accept a mil in gil for a haidate?

 

[Lavi]

Lavi he did nothing wrong. It was a simple request to ask ls out there if there was interest in making some gil off of someone's pop set. If he farmed it then he farmed it, if he stole it(which he has asked you to ask his old sky shell) then he will be ousted in the game by Titansofsky. He is offering a shell compensation as you see in his options, and he is laying it out there outright so that these shells know there is no intention of him joining their shells.

Like i said, if it was a stolen pop set that would make it a different story. But it seems like he legitimately farmed a despot and a Diornite/autumnstone. What is wrong with asking a shell if they'd accept a mil in gil for a haidate?

Ok, let me explain it a little more clearly. I know you're in Fury so I'll use you and your shell as an example, no offense intended, but it's easier to picture it that way I think. You guys farm on Tuesday and Fridays in sky (I don't know if that's true, but lets say it is). Tuesday I get up to sky and I camp with a couple of friends, I get Olla and I claim Zip in from of you taking away a full set you could have used to pop Genbu. The next Gods day. Friday, I ask Fury to kill Genbu in return for the shield under the provision you can have the rest of the drops or maybe gil, whatever. I get the shield or maybe I don't, it really doesn't matter, what does is that you actually agreed to it. The next Tuesday farming session, I get Despot and an Ulli pop for Byakko. I again ask your shell for a drop in return, you get some of the other drops and whatnot. Notice a pattern?

Well, let's say you refuse. I can't pop Genbu. That might not stop me from getting another group, but what if other groups say no? Then I can't pop Genbu period. Then why farm a Byakko set if I can't even get help to kill Genbu? Now your shell has less competition at despot/Ulli and instead of getting some drops from Genbu, you get all drops from Byakko because you killed the Despot that would have gone to me. It won't exactly happen like that, but if people don't have to wait in line in a gods shell and can skip the wait altogether by just getting a couple of friends for Despot and Ulli (that's all you really need), you're going to find there are a lot of people who would rather do just that. I don't know about you, but I want all my members to get haidates even if it costs me a chance at some mediocre items. I'm not in sky to help someone who is not a member of my shell and I am certainly not going to help competition which will take away or encourage the taking of pops from me and my shell.

That's all I am saying. I am not saying anything about Lews, his character, or how he got his pop item other than it's probably from RMT if he bought it. All I am saying is his request will hurt sky shells more than it will help them. Anyone can take up the offer, it doesn't hurt me much, I don't do sky much if at all anymore. But if you do, other groups who wouldn't normally start camping sky start appearing and you lose claim, it's your own fault.

 

[jyakotsu]

quoting.

you definitely said a mouthful lol. Let me clarify on my end lavi. If a pt of 6 outclaims(sp) us at Farming, thats really sad lol. But if they do, more power to them. We'll come back on a less farmed day and get the necessary pops w/ a pt of 4-5. Honestly would it tick us off? It would for about the 5 minutes we have to watch them kill it. If a person presented us w/ this option, my guess is that we would say no. However that doesn't mean everyone would say no. There are those shells that are basically done w/ the Sky wishlists save a few gods here and there. It could benefit a shell to pop his Byakko and get something out of it Idk really. But in all honesty, if he really did farm it and someone is willing to help him out, he did work for it. Just a thought.

 

[Dowzer]

It's in the sky linkshell's best interest, not yours Lavi. If it will hurt the shell who pops his Byakko set, they most likely will give reasoning to why they won't do it for him. However, with the deal Lews has presented; a sky LS will more than likely help him out.

As for the buying the stone and gem, I believe this forum has been over this before. There's no reason to bring it up again, especially when RMT have been demolished time and time again by the STFU.

I'm pretty dissapointed in the stance you've taken on Lews. Most people would just ask RMT for the Haidate, nevermind finding the time to buy a pop set.

You need to understand that people aren't always in the position to join a sky linkshell.

I've noticed other situations similar to these where you have simply not noticed or totally ignored. Why? There are plenty of people offering gil for black belt items, yet you harrass this guy for an item which is much more common.

Lews, if you're really interested in continueing this; it'll be in your best interest to contact Olrox. They've popped gods for other players before and generally the memberbase didn't seem to mind.

 

[Makelith]

Lavi, I really think you are giving way too much credit to the general population. I doubt anyone else would want to do what Lews has done, and i doubt most people even have the drive. (People hate sky going with an alliance of people and losing claim, how would you like having to go with ~6?) While what you are saying is true, that it *could* hurt sky shells if enough people do it, but the simple fact is, no one will do it.

 

[jyakotsu]

Even though i dislike Olrox and his stupidity, i agree w/ Scwa. You should get in contact w/ Olrox.

 

[Khajit]

At the vey least the gil he's trying to pay for em is very low. During the time that the ls goes out and gets his byakko killed thy could have gotten thier own pop sets for another god if they have to wait in line behind even 1 pop.
Then theres the costs for food and silent oils(which isnt as large as before at least as consolation) plus ammo for rng.
Also theres the whole "fair market price" thing. Peple were paying 7 mil for haidate not too long ago from rmt and we know rmt undercut like bastards.
So paying a ls 1 mil to get haidate when the estimated price is 6 mil higher minimum is ridiculously cheap.
Frankly the only way several of your offer might be thought of as reasonable as far as prices go is if the people doing the pop for you were ex lsmates in which case the peope involved are doing it more to help a freind than for the gil involved.

 

[Zethren]

The guy is in Afghanistan. Give the guy a break dude.

Now option 3 is obviously bad, they stole them and allowing them to use your shell to kill sends the message that it's acceptable to steal and you condone it.

Why hello there Intergal and Johnnyb.

Lavi: Proud member of a LS which condones stealing and using pop items that others have farmed for his LS's benefit.(this is all assuming that they have used them, if not ignore what I said, lol)

 

[Lavi]

It's in the sky linkshell's best interest, not yours Lavi. If it will hurt the shell who pops his Byakko set, they most likely will give reasoning to why they won't do it for him. However, with the deal Lews has presented; a sky LS will more than likely help him out.

As for the buying the stone and gem, I believe this forum has been over this before. There's no reason to bring it up again, especially when RMT have been demolished time and time again by the STFU.

I'm pretty dissapointed in the stance you've taken on Lews. Most people would just ask RMT for the Haidate, nevermind finding the time to buy a pop set.

You need to understand that people aren't always in the position to join a sky linkshell.

I've noticed other situations similar to these where you have simply not noticed or totally ignored. Why? There are plenty of people offering gil for black belt items, yet you harrass this guy for an item which is much more common.

Lews, if you're really interested in continueing this; it'll be in your best interest to contact Olrox. They've popped gods for other players before and generally the memberbase didn't seem to mind.

So it's in the best interest to help someone who has show interest in counter camping you? No.

BB items are also on a different level. Most of those items are free lot or sold because no one within the shell needs them, but a majority of shells have a good waiting line for B. Hiadates. You're not only giving it to someone who isn't a member of your shell, you're also showing that you don't care if it brings more campers to outclaim you. Seriously, if I camped against your shell one moment taking precious pop items out of your hands and then the next, asked you to pop, would you mind? Or better yet, I can buy off RMT because that's a legitimate source and I can claim ignorance because that's a legitimate excuse. I must also admit, I don't like shells selling anything that's not AH sellable or craftable. However, this is a different issue. This is about creating unneeded or encouraging already existing competition to proliferate.

Think of it another way. When you camp NMs, do you help your competition? Most don't because it encourages them for future tries. If the person cannot do it alone or doesn't get drop, they will often give up leaving it easier for yourself. This is important when you have not just yourself to think about, but the wellfare of an entire shell.

Italic: Because he didn't buy from RMT, I should give him an award? Or he should be given slack because he lacks the time to farm? I didn't know those were legitimate excuses. Next time I go somewhere, I can play the gimp card and be like I didn't have time to farm, but at least I didn't buy gil from RMT!

 

[Lavi]

The guy is in Afghanistan. Give the guy a break dude.

Why hello there Intergal and Johnnyb.

Lavi: Proud member of a LS which condones stealing and using pop items that others have farmed for his LS's benefit.(this is all assuming that they have used them, if not ignore what I said, lol)

Says the guy who's in FF. I was in that shell for a year and helped everyone more often than I can remember and to put it bluntly, the only time I ever recieved help in return if I ever did, was when they stood to benefit from it. Once that ended, bye bye.

I really don't know anything about that, nor do I care.

 

[summoners]

Optional for any sky shell..nothing wrong with asking and pay some other shell to do it for Lavi.. Long as you willing to pay for their work.. I guess it not against the policy because you not selling but asking help for their hard work.. reward for those that help you only..

 

[Dowzer]

I must also admit, I don't like shells selling anything that's not AH sellable or craftable.

This is the only reason you seem to be in an arguement with everyone. Well, it stops here and now. No one gives a shit about your two-bit opinion, keep it to yourself. People will do what they please with the items they obtain, they don't need a screening from Lavi to have permission to sell or trade them; so neither should Lews. Be gone.