"Good times?" Depends on your perspective I guess

I scanned through the thread, so perhaps I miss something.

Story short: He pay RMT smaller amount to rip them from time/effort for item for bigger amount.

For those of you calling ethics into it, you expect too much from:

A. Humanity in general and their own ethical yard stick compared to yours.

B. Someone playing a game where virtual life may not be held in same regard as RL.

C. Someone who put their time in and not yielding results fast enough for that someone. Kinda like stuffing money into the hot-to-trot stock picks of the week and not diversifying with something less volatile. ALL ABOUT MONEH NOW! -Stock Market Crashes Again-

In all seriousness it's a moot point.

He has his item, and whether he drops it or not is his choice.
(It's also interesting to know with some of you, unlike myself with disposable gil haven't offered him the 500k he spent to drop the item and get it "legit" through his Sky time and see if he'd bite. -- Granted after the RMT scam, could trust him to do this? Lol...)

No one cares if any of you like him less or cheer on his actions with the RMT.

Those of you cheering him on, not the course of action I'd take, because the minimal dent he may or may not have put in RMT operations as a whole is negligible.

Stop thinking it's a big slap in the face to the RMT, it's nothing but a small fall easily recovered from, this is a victory that falls far from anything significant, aside maybe his personal acquisition of a desirable item.

Those who're giving the guy shit, if you have such a problem with it, I suggest you avoid him and associating your name with his.

A real good start would be to stop posting in threads about him.

It very simple, applaud his action and shut it, or scoff and shut it.

Take your pick and quit using this thread as an excuse to wax intellectual about morality/ethics or your own personal views that most others here could truly care less about.

(For the record, I might care about your personal views if I get to know ya better! -- If you wanna talk about this kind of thing, feel free to send a /t in-game or a PM here. I'm still new to QCDN, and Quetz in general, lol. Poke at me.)

- Lec
 
Lecreuset said:
I scanned through the thread, so perhaps I miss something. ~ Stuff...

It very simple, applaud his action and shut it, or scoff and shut it.

Take your pick and quit using this thread as an excuse to wax intellectual about morality/ethics or your own personal views that most others here could truly care less about.

(For the record, I might care about your personal views if I get to know ya better! -- If you wanna talk about this kind of thing, feel free to send a /t in-game or a PM here. I'm still new to QCDN, and Quetz in general, lol. Poke at me.)

- Lec
Click to expand...

You're new, so welcome. But yeah, this place is a forum, and kind of the place for discussion. As for "waxing intellectual" (which insinuates somehow I'm putting on airs for the QCDN population), I'm not pretending anything. What I say and present here is who I am, plain and simple. Don't like what I have to say, there's an ignore button you can use to filter me in the future. And considering the length of the thread and the number of intelligent responses, apparently, more than just myself thought it was a topic worthy of discussion, so I think the ""most others could truly care less about" seems to apply to you and the people who had the good sense, if so uninterested, to not waste their time by posting here. If you don't want to discuss it, feel free to not.

I'll say once more that I don't know Kunel personally and I'm not trying to run his name through the muck. He could be a terrific guy to every other legit player in the game, and I've said so. I'm making these statements based on a neutral person's point of view, who has been affected by RMT just like the rest of the FF community and simply disagrees with his methods.
 
Seems like the majority of the community thought that was an acceptable form of punishment/payback to the RMT's for all that they have done and have gotten away with.

How's that any different from how any society works?
 
Darkdante said:
Seems like the majority of the community thought that was an acceptable form of punishment/payback to the RMT's for all that they have done and have gotten away with.

How's that any different from how any society works?
Click to expand...
Because stealing is still illegal in any society, no matter who you steal from?
 
meeze said:
He probably paid full price.
Click to expand...

I kinda agree, for all we know they might of only wanted 500k. All the RMT would go away tomorrow if people would freaking stop buying gil from there websites. I haven't see anyone exposed for buying gil in a long time and I know there out there cause the RMT are still out there. If people want to rip off RMT then rip off gil buyers too. There hands are just as dirty as the RMTs...
 
Bajaratt said:
Because stealing is still illegal in any society, no matter who you steal from?
Click to expand...

Unless, of course, the "theft" is mandated by law, as in the case of one of the more creative sentences you might recieve from a judge. Or a GM who jails your entire LS during a Kirin when someone is hacking. XD

Oh and one more thing:

Mattaru said:
B : I said I used to believe it was fine to break the ToS because it was a pointless contract between SE and players. (snip) My opinions on this has changed since I believe SE has cleaned up its act.
Click to expand...

So what you're really saying is I won our last debate. Thank you, carry on. XD
 
Lec:
People are responding to my posts, at least a couple, but as I said my last post was probably my last on the whole ethical subject. I know fully aware of what I am doing when I "wax intellectual" and if people care less about it I think they can show that themselves without you assuming everyone does.

Most people who know me know that I don't "wax intellectual" or engage in these type of discussions unless someone else wanted to as well or brings up an issue. My personal beliefs on the subject really only show through a minority of my posts, most of the time I'm just asking people to reevaluate theirs.

So please just because you may care less about it, don't assume others do and moreover don't tell them that they should if they get something out of it.

Raes:
Lol, hey SE got better about it and I changed my mind ;p.
 
Darkdante said:
Because if there is no one enforcing the rules, as in this game, or this situation.

Then majority rules.
Click to expand...
You're seriously going to use the "it's not illegal if you don't get caught" defense?
 
Darkdante said:
Thats not what I said.

I said, majority rules.
Click to expand...
You said Majority rules only if the rule isn't being enforced, which means you were not caught. Since the majority isn't ripping gil sellers off, in fact it's quite rare, majority rule isn't on the side of stealing as a means.
 
Ryuhei said:
madness.jpg
Click to expand...

I see what you did there!
 
Hmm... why debate? Lets make some S'mores and gather around the camp fire!
 
Mattaru said:
Javir said:
Matt apparently is a rather disgruntled player with less to add to this post than his claim for you adding to this subject altogether. Why are most Taru always such grumps and babble like old men aged beyond reason. =x

I have to agree Zyn. We shouldn't be making heros out of people who use people no matter how moral/immoral they are or claim to be. It's like saying you're buying morphine from a drug dealer to give to your mother for "medicinal purposes" instead of the proper channels and calling it a good deed (in this scenario). There is nothing stopping you from getting it the drug. And the drug dealer is more expensive just available to get on the spot instead of waiting a few days.

In the end, you're supporting the "bane of society" as the "majority" seam to put it. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and surely more people use the RMT in the RMT's favor or not that don't admit it.
Click to expand...

Usually I let syntax go because mine is terrible, but what does your first sentence say again. I'm assuming you are saying I am adding as much to the subject at hand that I critique Zyn for adding. First, if you learned to read you'd see alot of what I was saying was pointed at Bajaratt's comments in the previous thread. Second, if you learned to read you wouldn't even said that. Let me break it down for you since it is not 1 am anymore:

Generally people who bring up value/ethical or character judgements in this game and relate that to a greater since of conduct that transcends just the game they tend to forget what it means to be playing this game on the same level. If you have a very relaxed ethical standard as far as being objective goes you are most likely acting out of "bad faith" unless your great calling and goal is to be playing FFXI, deep down its the only thing that makes you satisfied and there is no way your time could be spent better. If you have a standard like Bajaratt's (which seems Kantian, which I jokingly poked fun at) then you should be susceptible to all those ethical standards yourself, and I do not know how you can will a maxim of playing ffxi etc. Moreover, I'm sure most people upholding this standard just can't, which is a major reason why it is irrational (thats right Kant is irrational), so I can only assume they bring it up to educate the masses who are desperately uninformed about how they ought to be like myself.

These kind of arguments and quabbles about stuff ingame really has no merit other than getting our e-rocks off and stroking ourselves mentally, including myself. I just came. How disgruntled could I be?

If I have to hear anyone else say that getting B. Pants for 500k is not a rip off I'm going to give them 500k to farm me some, not that I couldn't get them myself, but I'd rather have you do it for 500k since its such a great deal.
Click to expand...


Ok, so I pulled a statement out of my ass in regards to you, and maybe it wasn't the most clever bit of work. But you basically continue to bitch at people for discussing the primary topic of this matter and can't shut up (kinda improving my point <.<). Yuh, your dicussion regarding my post is less impressive when you're babbling on for 7-8 posts. If this topic matter seriously bothers you, you really should consider ignoring it and moving on. Instead of that rambling. Honestly, admit you like hearing your voice (in this case seeing your text) without concern.
 
Bajaratt said:
You said Majority rules only if the rule isn't being enforced, which means you were not caught. Since the majority isn't ripping gil sellers off, in fact it's quite rare, majority rule isn't on the side of stealing as a means.
Click to expand...

Majority of the people in the original thread agreed with the OP.
 
Javir said:
Ok, so I pulled a statement out of my ass in regards to you, and maybe it wasn't the most clever bit of work. But you basically continue to bitch at people for discussing the primary topic of this matter and can't shut up (kinda improving my point <.<). Yuh, your dicussion regarding my post is less impressive when you're babbling on for 7-8 posts. If this topic matter seriously bothers you, you really should consider ignoring it and moving on. Instead of that rambling. Honestly, admit you like hearing your voice (in this case seeing your text) without concern.
Click to expand...

Brb adhomineming.

EDIT: I already said that most of us are just masterbating anyway when argueing on the internet. I know who I am, you don't.
 
Darkdante said:
Majority of the people in the original thread agreed with the OP.
Click to expand...
Mattaru can back me up on this, majority rule isn't inherently a good thing. Any legit society has a mechanism to check the majority rule if necessary.

Vocal minority, you always get congrats posts in any good times thread while few flames, they're just idiots, or they just cheer anything bad that happens to gil sellers regardless of how shady the OP was in what they did. Take you pick, either way, it's still not any kind of majority you'd base a decision off of. It's not majority rule, because the majority isn't following the rule, they're just not mad at someone being a vigilante.
 
Marajade said:
RMT are not people within the frame of this game. Yes, the people at the computers are just as human as me and i'm not hatefull to them particularly. But they are not players. They're not even NPCs. They're tools being used by people to make money off a game in ways that are against the game itself. They have no rights, nor protections. Screwing them over whenever you can however you can is akin to pulling weeds from a public garden. No one cares, or more importantly, no one should care.
Click to expand...

This Marajade paragraph, dubbed, Maragraph (insert "lulzicwhutudidthere"...Because talking like you're 3 never gets old.), says it all.

The bolded is particularly important. RMT IS NOT ALLOWED. When RMT (buyers or sellers) are caught, they are to have their accounts terminated. So, when you see RMT, you're looking at what should be a perma-banned account. They shouldn't exist in the first place which is why no one should care. Yet, they do exist. Hence, RMT are described, aptly, as a problem. When they are discovered, they are terminated.

See:
http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=326682&sid=16
http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=320645&sid=16
http://www.ffxiah.com/player.php?id=326457&sid=16
Etc.

SE removes people that break the rules. RMT's very nature breaks the rules. So why do people care? It is a fact that they are a problem. Seeing people give them hell is merely witnessing them reaping what they sow.
 
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