Hachiman Gear for Samurai

[Khali]

well i think it's more for the 2h update Soujiro.. since 1 dex = 1 acc for 2h weapons. And then the crit hit rate is an added bonus so i understand where that is coming from, but what i said is from a mithra's P.O.V. And ya.. if you did store tp +17 for WS and then 5 hits of +21 store TP.. you'd be at 99.8% tp and it doesn't round up because the tp/hit has already been rounded to the tenths place.

Notable info:
==============================
So no one has to look for numbers on how much you get...

ENDGAME SAM STORE TP %'s
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****+16 Store TP = 16.2% tp return and for each +1 Store TP add 0.1% (450 DLY)****
I started with 16 because that's what you're shooting for since full merits, rajas, and brutal = 16.


WS/Melee Setup #1
--------------------
This WS/Melee Store TP setup below is useless.. you might as well stick with have +21 store tp throughout WS and Melee attacks... But this does 'work'

1 WS (+19/20 store TP)
5 Melee (+21 store TP)
6/100 TP build right on the money

WS/Melee Setup #2
--------------------
This setup looks very nicee since it all has to do with swapping out one armor slot and that you default store TP is used for WSing so you can bulk up on str and atk in WS mode. Basically... What do you get when you combine Saotome, Hachiman, and Fuma Sun-Ates together? Why you get Usukane Sun-Ate of course!!! XD

1 WS (+16 Store TP) (Merits, Rajas, Brutal)
5 Melee (+22 Store TP) (w/Hachiman Sun-ate +1, or Usukane Sun-Ate)
6/100 TP Build
==============================

If you always have +16 Store tp on you when you're in WS/TP mode.. then you need to add 3 extra for WS and then 5 extra for the melee hits. And there's not really armor that can do that for you without ruining your dmg and str. So basically.. you're better off aiming for Hachiman HQ or Usukane Sun-Ate but i bet everyone knew that already.. but it's fun to show why

 

[Bajaratt]

-Fixed to be more accurate.

Also not to nitpick but you should take another look at your screenshots Baja. On my screen it shows:
The Lost Soul casts Thunder
Bajaratt takes 17 points of damage (1)
The Lost Soul casts Blizzard II
Bajaratt takes 102 points of damage (2)

Yes, but the thunder spell hit me as I was readying the weapon skill, so the TP that I gained was drained along with the rest when I did Tachi: Koki. You can tell in the screen shot because I have 16 TP after my weapon skill landed, I just took the picture before the damage came up in my log. 16 TP is the normal return for a single-hit when you don't have the +21 store TP, otherwise it'd be 17 TP.

I do not melee in Myochin Kote +1

You consider it an option, I have no idea what you actually use:

Hands: If you used Hachiman Kotes full time, you lose okotes, b kotes, dusk gloves, myochin kotes +1 as TP options, and Alky's bracelets, etc for WS

You still have yet to prove where you got +83 Store TP in gear/food for your 25 TP return last strike.

If mob damage had nothing to do with this additional TP gain, or meditate, then where did it come from?

You're still not getting it, please try reading everything I say instead of just one or two sentences. I know that I gained a little TP from being hit, but unless you're going to say that the SINGLE spell that hit me gave me 9 TP, the test was still good. I usually use +22 store TP(hachiman boots, Raja's, burtal, Chiv chain, full merits), since I don't have PCC or justice torque(which since it has nothing to do with store TP would have been removed for the test); so ordinarily I'll have around 101% TP instead of a flat 100%. Some of the extra was from being hit, but I'm not sure where the rest came form, honestly.

Just redid the test, on level 2 mobs with /nin. Grabbed my wooden katana from storage, just to cut down on the damage, but I still killed a few mobs while doing the test.

There's a double attack here from my brutal earring, but they give the same TP as 2 normal hits, so it just sped things up.

So there's a successful test without any odd TP gains in it. Which, back to the original point of this test, you don't need any hachiman on you when you do a weapon skill to maintain a 6-hit setup. Therefore, hachiman body = crap, get a Hauby.

 

[Mistra]

Therefore, hachiman body = crap, get a Hauby.

Baj, you just won my vote. When are you running?

 

[Bajaratt]

I need a bus, or maybe a jet. Boosh.

 

[Khali]

i'm guessing you get a big enough TP return maybe by .4 or something when you WS.. are you using a sea gorget when you WS? I'm gonna try it when i get done with pt.. i just did +17 tp without WSing and i'm short by .2 tp for the 100% Did they change the TP return on WSes a while ago or etc or maybe it was a hidden thing or maybe it's always been like that? I don't use hachi body anyway for WSing.. i just use hauby but will use osode when i get one.

 

[Bajaratt]

No, I'm missing a Yovra Organ to get my gorget. I'm full timing chiv chain, Raja's and brutal. I'm also full timing Hachiman feet, but only because I don't have Rutter's, Usukane or Askar(hoping to get those soon).

 

[phishn]

Thanks for the clean retest.

You are correct, only if you have Hachiman Sune-Ate +1, or Usukane Sune-Ate, end build, that you do not need any Hachiman for WS.

"Therefore, hachiman body = crap, get a Hauby."

If you need accuracy boost for your WS, by all means, use a Hauby. Pre update I would agree with you that Hauby > Hachiman Domaru for WS, especially the hauby +1.

I have a Hauby, I only use it to really build TP on Byakko eating meat. Get a Sea Gorget for your WS then redo your test.

Using a Sea Gorget for WS,and keeping 6 hit build, (excluding Hachiman Sune-Ate +1 or Usuakane Sune-Ate)


Hachiman Domaru + Rutter Sabatons = 11 STR, 16 ATTK, 8 ACC, Store TP +6
Hauby + Hachiman Sune-Ate = 7 STR, 18 ATTK, 17 ACC, Store TP +5

So since accuracy is not an issue, you are giving up 4 STR to gain 2 Attk using a hauby and Hachiman Sune-Ate combo vs Hachiman Domaru/Rutter Sabatons combo.

I fail to see where +4 more STR is < 2 attk for a Samurai WS.


" since I don't have PCC or justice torque(which since it has nothing to do with store TP would have been removed for the test)"

So what does that grip and back piece have to do with the test you had equipped? Best practice is 3 slots with Store TP Gear, that's what I assumed and counted with Brutal, Rajas, Hachiman Sune-Ate's. I did make a mistake assuming that was a Justice Torque and apologize for that.

 

[Khali]

Now i'm intrigued at how much TP exactly does a WS give you...

Based on all the info we know.. it's at least 16.5% tp on return... using +16 tp

 

[Bajaratt]

Thanks for the clean retest.

You are correct, only if you have Hachiman Sune-Ate +1, or Usukane Sune-Ate, end build, that you do not need any Hachiman for WS.

Except that I was testing with NQ hachiman boots, so no you don't need HQ unless you want to waste your money.

If you need accuracy boost for your WS, by all means, use a Hauby.

God you're dense, accuracy is not the only reason why Hauby is better. You're completely ignoring attack for STR, all the while ignoring how you're no where near the ceiling on attack.

Hachiman Domaru + Rutter Sabatons = 11 STR, 16 ATTK, 8 ACC, Store TP +6
Hauby + Hachiman Sune-Ate = 7 STR, 18 ATTK, 17 ACC, Store TP +5

You're still an idiot who's refusing to acknowledge the proof I've shown you TWICE now. You don't need any hachiman gear on WS to maintain a 6-hit build. Therefore, you could *shock* wear rutters and haubergeon during a weapon skill and gain the clearly superior stats of both!

So what does that grip and back piece have to do with the test you had equipped? Best practice is 3 slots with Store TP Gear, that's what I assumed and counted with Brutal, Rajas, Hachiman Sune-Ate's. I did make a mistake assuming that was a Justice Torque and apologize for that.

It was a platinum grip, a chance on a stun would mean no chance for the mob to hit me to give me TP(I'll give you that since it could have been anything). The back piece is a shadow mantle, do I have to explain why I'd wear that too?

Any gear that I removed or left on, aside from the store tp gear, is completely irrelevant to the test being performed. I took off the gear to extend the lifespan of the mobs I was testing on. I wore an aketon and my wally turban for the second test, you going to make more retarded comments about the test's "failure" because of those? Hell, I guess it was invalid because I had a soultrapper 2000 in my ranged slot, or that I didn't use a real GK for the second test, right?

At this point, it's pretty obvious yet another test isn't going to penetrate your skull, so keep on keeping on like a moron. Continue to ignore the hard facts that have been presented to prove you wrong, hell continue ignoring how no great end-game samurai uses hachiman body, just keep thinking you're right based on nothing at all.

Actually Khali, I was using +17 store TP for a weapon skill. Usually I have +22, so taking off the hachiman boots(5 store tp) would leave me at +17.

 

[phishn]

You are using a chivalrous chain for weapon skill!
You are using a chivalrous chain for weapon skill!
You are using a chivalrous chain for weapon skill!
You are using a chivalrous chain for weapon skill!
You are using a chivalrous chain for weapon skill!

Penetrate your skull.

This is why your build works! Remove that chain for your ws, and you will fail without Hachiman piece if you are meleeing with something besides chilvarous chain. But I need to be fair as I'm comparing non end state gear too with my Hachiman Domaru, its all I have right now, just like you with Chilvarous Chain.

"hell continue ignoring how no great end-game samurai uses hachiman body, just keep thinking you're right based on nothing at all."

Its not my end state game piece, Osode is for WS.

" so no you don't need HQ unless you want to waste your money."

No, its so I dont have to weapon skill using any Hachiman!, Store TP +6 vs Store TP +5, The extra Store TP +1 X 5 swings makes up for having to equip any Hachiman for WS. Same exact logic you are using with your Chivalrous Chain.

WS hit 1, No Hachiman Sune Ate +1, just Rajas ring, Brutal, Merits

TP=(5.0 + [(450 - 180) * 6.5] / 270) * (1 + .41))
TP=11.5 * 1.41= 16.215 = 16.2


Hits 2-6, using Hachiman Sune Ate +1, Rajas, Brutal, Merits

TP=(5.0 + [(450 - 180) * 6.5] / 270) * (1 + .47))
TP=11.5 * 1.47= 16.905 = 16.9


Total TP = 16.2 + 16.9 + 16.9 + 16.9 + 16.9 +16.9=100.7 WIN

The same equation above is what you will experience REMOVING chivalrous chain from your WS build and replacing it with sea gorget. Only difference is that I'm aiming to reduce the Store TP slots from 3 meleeing to 2 for WS.

 

[Khali]

I know what you're doing wrong Baja.. You said you do your WS at +17 TP then you put back on you hachi sun-ate...


Which means...

1 WS (Store TP + 17)
5 Melee (Store TP + 22)
-----------------------
6/100 TP Build

Which is true.

It doesn't work for 1 WS +17 store TP with 5 melee hits at +21 store TP XD

There's no bonus because you were WSing at +17 and Meleeing at +22

I tried WSing at +17 and Meleeing at +21 and i get 99% (99.8%)

Your pictures prove it because your first trial.. you had everything on Chiv chain and sun-ate. You said you took off the Sun-Ate for the First WS hit (+17 TP) and then put them back on for the melee hits (+22).

 

[Gregedor]

lol @ saying soboro stops being king of damage before hagun. Other than that stupid part, it's not any different from what you'd see in other guides. "Ultimate," maybe, but not the only one.

So you malign my wiki but then reiterate what's in there? Cool.

 

[Bajaratt]

So you malign my wiki but then reiterate what's in there? Cool.

There's nothing specially about your guide, you can find all of the information in dozens of other guides. You're the only one that I've seen that's erroneously said that soboro stops doing the most damage before Hagun. Congrats on not fucking up the majority of your guide.

Your guide also isn't the only place for information on samurai, so just because you might have the information in there doesn't mean it's where I read it first(it sure as hell wasn't); nor does it make your guide any better than the others since they have it in there too.

 

[Gregedor]

There's nothing specially about your guide, you can find all of the information in dozens of other guides. You're the only one that I've seen that's erroneously said that soboro stops doing the most damage before Hagun. Congrats on not fucking up the majority of your guide.

Your guide also isn't the only place for information on samurai, so just because you might have the information in there doesn't mean it's where I read it first(it sure as hell wasn't); nor does it make your guide any better than the others since they have it in there too.

Hagun does beat Soboro, end of story. Yes, I've parsed it. Yes my gear > you.

I hate you, you hate me, I don't care your opinion, end of discussion. Going back to playing the game rather than post whoring.

 

[Milgard]

Usukane Sun-Ate FTW.

i pwn n00bs.

 

[Bajaratt]

Hagun does beat Soboro, end of story. Yes, I've parsed it. Yes my gear > you.

I hate you, you hate me, I don't care your opinion, end of discussion. Going back to playing the game rather than post whoring.

You're still an idiot, if you could read properly you'd see I didn't say that Soboro did more damage than Hagun. I said that Soboro does the most damage of all GK's until Hagun. The word until means that Hagun does more damage, but nothing else does.

 

[Gregedor]

You're still an idiot, if you could read properly you'd see I didn't say that Soboro did more damage than Hagun. I said that Soboro does the most damage of all GK's until Hagun. The word until means that Hagun does more damage, but nothing else does.

yes I r can't read gut, pls tark shiz on my speeking skillz.

Sie haben mich falsch verstanden, weil Sie keinen Spaß verstehen.

 

[Sharpe]

yes I r can't read gut, pls tark shiz on my speeking skillz.

Sie haben mich falsch verstanden, weil Sie keinen Spaß verstehen.

Why be formal if you're arguing with him?

 

[Bajaratt]

yes I r can't read gut, pls tark shiz on my speeking skillz.

Sie haben mich falsch verstanden, weil Sie keinen Spaß verstehen.

At least you've understood that you've got a problem, so get some phonics and join the rest of us who passed the first grade.

 

[Mistra]

You're the only one that I've seen that's erroneously said that soboro stops doing the most damage before Hagun. Congrats on not fucking up the majority of your guide.

Hagun does beat Soboro, end of story. Yes, I've parsed it. Yes my gear > you.

Baj had a point though, you apparently did not read that very well. He quite simply stated that you falsely implied that Soboro at a certain point stopped outputting as much damage as any other GKT before the level to use Hagun is reached.

To which then, you stroke your massive e-peen and while idiotically triumphant, exclaim, "Hagun does beat Soboro, end of story."

That was never in question big guy. I at least, didn't see it.