Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22)

Fubio said:
Eh, your right. That does suck for those that had nothing to do with it. Truth is though, they probably knew about it. Guilty by assosciation(sp?) i guess. If its Kisada that is banned though, thats just..... lol.. wow. What hypocrits. Makes me wonder what else they were hypocritical about. Once again though, until we know for sure who's banned i guess we really shouldnt even say anything at all.
Click to expand...

Remember that this is all from a little songbird and there's no way to verify, but that is one of the names, other with other leaders that had relic equipment as well. If what was chirped in my ear is true, almost every single relic that limitless popped out is gone now. Guess that indeed, we'll find out in due time.
 
Yea, i havent even played FF in 5 months and im getting the same information as you. To be honest Rappa, This has to be true. I dont see how it isnt. Someone from Kaizen is talking and im finding it quite amusing.
 
If you don't see them online for a while, it's safe to say they've been banned. It's not like quetz had many banned NA/EU anyway.
 
Idk, if its true...regardless of our past relationship, I wouldn't wish this on anyone and don't find it funny. Was kind of hoping the old school end gamers on quetz would remain untouched, but guess its unlikely to happen now. We might be rivals, but I would much rather have competent rivals that I respect in terms of skill than...well...you know. Hopefully they will work through this if it is indeed true.
 
I can't say I would "wish it" on anyone either, but if they all cheated and duped drops, especially considering the shell's often discussed anti-cheating ideology, I can't really feel any sympathy for them. I hope their legit members find new homes.
 
You drink, you drive, you spill.
 
http://nineinchninjas.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=9090

Interesting read

Sorry for the late reply. I went to sleep after waiting on hold that long, just woke up a little while ago. Just to hear from the source, yep, it's perma. Not the way I wanted to go out, but kay-sar-a, sa-ra. I had fun, despite the developers. I already picked out the TV I plan to get, the Pioneer PDP-5020FD. I'd get a larger one but I don't have room in my place. Thanks to everyone who's provided their condolences. For everyone that pointed out the SE banned me over and over, thank you for pointing out the obvious, I can assure you I've noticed. No, I'm not upset or really that sad. I believe it to be an unmeasured response, but that's my humble opinion.

I am leaving the game, but I'm happy to say I'm leaving the game as one of the most accomplished individuals. I can say w/o a doubt, I couldn't of had a better group to play with. I'm proud of our LS, what we accomplished, how far we came from day 1 till now. As far as the LS is concerned, I have no regrets. We accomplished a great deal for a shell of 25. If I had to pick a time for the LS to go out, I can't think of a better one. We were in our prime, at our best. The atmosphere in the shell was positive, and I was excited to get up everyday and do what we did. I tried my hardest to make decisions that I thought were fair, never tried to play favorites on loot decisions, and always tried to make sure I never became one of the LS leaders who took everything before their member. In every good HNM shell, there is a calculated risk and reward. My LS took the gamble and lost. But never reget rolling the dice.

As for me, I'm not going to commit suicide, or whatever else you guys have been cooking up in those heads of yours. SE made their decision, even if I don't agree with it, I have no option but to respect it. I could be upset or angry over it, but what good would that do? I would much rather celebrate the accomplishments then dwell on the defeats. I don't plan on playing another MMO, and now that Minidragon is gone, I don't plan on playing this one either. My simple regrets, I never got to parse one of our Amano sams with my Apoc after getting the Armada, Mar's, and a couple minor HQ's. I came really close last time, and I think I could match or beat him this time around. I didn't get to finish the Burtgang, I was joking with the LS about how if I were to finish the Burtgang, I would instantly enter a CS with the FFXI credits rolling. I was at least happy to know that I was going to finish it. I don't think there would have been any obstacles that I couldn't overcome in the making of that weapon. My last regret, was not capping merits. I was about 216 merits from capping all jobs out for merits.

Just to clear a few things up (lot's of strange rumors about me) and some neat facts:

I am the original owner of the account.

I am from the US.

No, I'm not a virgin.

Yes, I have friends.

Yes, I have seen the sun.

I'm actually a pretty normal person, I just happen to play a video game for a few more hours a day then average MMO players. I go out with friends, and have BBQs, play poker on rare occasions.

I did not buy gil in this game. Believe what you want, but I honestly didn't.

I did at one point use the gardening exploit to amass a great quantity of Fire, Ice and Thunder ore. I had over 40 gardening mules at that point between 3 accounts. My ‘other’ major indiscretion.

At the peak of inflation, I dropped on accident a stage 3 relic katana worth about 200mil at the time. There was no way to recover it.

I spent about 1,000,000,000 on my first relic. Had I saved that gil, I would very likely have many more relics today.

Most of my relics were self funded, the only one that I received help on was the Horn, and NiN helped me complete it.

Most of the gil I used to unlock relics is the remnants of fortune I amassed during the inflation.

I did receive a great deal of accounts from previous Iron members, and one from a old JP friend.

I did at points trade away accounts for gil, but never for cash. I couldn't afford keeping all of the accounts, so I picked the ones that benefited the LS the most to hold on to. This was also one of the major sources of gil for the most recent relic, and the burt.

I did not receive my D-ring from Iron or NiN, I got it in a Japanese HNM shell for my Ninja, the only other tanks there were a pld that had gotten one the week before, and a taru ninja who hasn't played in a long time. It was the first NA D-ring on the server and the last NA D-ring for a year.

To the best of my knowledge, I was the first NA character on any server with a Maat's cap. I was for sure, the first Maat's cap on our server. When the Maat's cap was released, I only had 2x75's, 1x37, and I was in the middle of leveling rng at about 50.

There have always been a great deal of rumors about how I treated my LS. I never kicked someone out for missing a single event, I was strict on attendance, but not that strict. I respected everyone I played with, and I never tried to take anything that I don't think everyone would agree I earned. I had a great deal of gear, but I honestly didn't solo lot much of anything in the shell. I passed a huge amount of rare gear to LS members, and always tried my hardest to avoid being selfish.

I never stole from the LS bank, however I will most likely be keeping the remainder of the bank, which isn't much. We had just bought several Salvage bodies worth of Khroma and brought it back to the server, so was a little on the low side.

I never botted on Minidragon. I did on mules, but never on my main.





I would like to end on a good note. I loved playing this game. It was really the people that I got to play with that made me excited to logon every day. Even despite all of the flaws, and SE going out of its way to alienate its player base. The people are what made this game fun for me. So I want to give a shout out to everyone that made this game that much better.

Narse (Apathy of Remora): One of the nicest guys I've met in this game. Deeply concerned for the wellbeing of his shell, and a very dedicated player. I have an amazing amount of respect for you and what your shell has accomplished. I wish you guys nothing but the best in your future endeavors.

Saibankan (AD of Bismrack): You've been a good friend and have helped us on countless relics. I'll miss talking with you about our achievements and goals. I'm sorry a great deal of the currency you sold us will go to waste now, but I hope we at least got the most out of it while we had it.

Tredvolt (the ex-leader of Iron): I didn't agree with everything you did, but watching you helped me shape NiN into the LS it is today. I learned a great deal from your successes, and mistakes. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to do so.

To the friends (and enemies) in Foreal: We butted heads a great deal, but at very least it made endgame on Bismarck exciting. It really would have been boring with out you.

All of my old friends in Iron: I tried my best to carry the torch for the shell. We accomplished everything that I wish Iron could have been. I just hope that our LS is not forgotten so easily.

To all of the people who watched and supported the shell. I thank you. I know I was never perfect, but I always tried to be a leader worth respecting. I did the best I could to live up to those principles. And for better or worse, I have no regrets about our shell. I'm sorry I didn't get around to listing everyone, there are so many more people that have influenced me in this game. Just know that I am truly grateful to of played with every one that helped shape the shell or supported us from afar.

Finally, to the men and women that I had the distinct privilege of playing with everyday. To all the Nine Inch Ninjas members, past and present, thank you for all your time and hard work. We set a very high standard for people to follow. We built something that was unique and fun. I have nothing but the utmost respect for each and every one of the people I played with. I couldn't have asked for a better shell, or a nicer group of people. I loved leading this shell more then any single other accomplishment in this game. It brought me a great deal of pride to see us succeed. It was truly you guys that made this game fun for me, and your absence is with out a doubt a great blow to the FFXI community. I wish you all the best of luck in your future endeavors.
Click to expand...
 
I think a perma ban for something like this would be too harsh, temp ban+taking away items (which means loss of the millions of gil ontop of the actual item), or other punishments that'll hurt the player (gil penalty, having all salvage gear deleted even if obtained legitly, etc..) would of been sufficient

If the rumors are true then:
Even though my linkshells and I certainly had my run-ins with kaizen and some of their members before, It'd be regrettable if some of their leaders and/or members were permanently banned. I don't think I've ever even talked to any of their leaders aside from possibly a short sentence here and there, and a majority of their members were cool people. There's of course a small element of "told you so" to anyone who claimed that they were angels above cheating, but a perm ban is as I said before too harsh for something like this.
 
I just woke up, and expected names of banned on our sever, before going to work. /deceived. Maybe dupping was inexistant on our server after all.
 
Daveman said:
I think a perma ban for something like this would be too harsh, temp ban+taking away items (which means loss of the millions of gil ontop of the actual item), or other punishments that'll hurt the player (gil penalty, having all salvage gear deleted even if obtained legitly, etc..) would of been sufficient
Click to expand...

Perhaps it might be a bit too hard to perm, however even though the method you are suggesting would have been a lot friendlier to the playerbase (although kiddies would have cried anyway) this sollution would have cost a lot more manhours.
Hey we are talking a big corporation here running an MMO with the sole purpose of making money.
With an executive's board which demands max results for minimal cost.

On the other side SE could have done nothing, but that is saying 'Hey guys we condone cheating!'
'If you find a glitch, please feel free to abuse it until we fix this!'
But hey, the EULA sais different.

All in all, this is exactly what we wanted.
This is exactly what we cried about back in 2005 when the massive inflation took place, get rid of the cheaters we cried, get rid of the people that exploit glitches.
SE promised they'd slowly but eventually get rid of the cheaters and exploiters.
SE is now keeping it's promise to the playerbase, you cheat? you risk getting banned, end of story.
 
Last edited:
Shirai said:
Perhaps it might be a bit too hard to perm, however even though the method you are suggesting would have been a lot friendlier to the playerbase (although kiddies would have cried anyway) this sollution would have cost a lot more manhours.

Hey we are talking a big corporation here running an MMO with the sole purpose of making money.
With an executive's board which demands max results for minimal cost.
Click to expand...

I do understand this, though deleting salvage gear all at once (weather or not a specific piece was legit) from guilty players is likely not all to hard (done manually, lets say ~5minutes per person about or under 100man hours which would pay themselves with subscriptions fees after just one month). Anyways what's done is done, unless people complain horrendously loudly, and with their wallets (as in a -lot- of players not banned, quitting over friends getting banned), punishments will likely stick.

SE is now keeping it's promise to the playerbase, you cheat? you risk getting banned, end of story.
Click to expand...
Maybe so, but official policy from what I understood was that first offense was 72hr ban, 2nd was permanent for cheating/hacking. Fleetool, and POS both had 72hr bans on first offense, and personally I'd consider them worse than the salvage glitch because you have to actually download 3rd party software, and the results were much more exploitive than tripling the drop rate.
 
Daveman said:
I do understand this, though deleting salvage gear all at once (weather or not a specific piece was legit) from guilty players is likely not all to hard (done manually, lets say ~5minutes per person about or under 100man hours which would pay themselves with subscriptions fees after just one month). Anyways what's done is done, unless people complain horrendously loudly, and with their wallets (as in a -lot- of players not banned, quitting over friends getting banned), punishments will likely stick.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, we do not know the long term effect of this action yet.
Also it may be 5 minutes per person, do not forget a lot of manhours has already gone in the backtracing of logs.
And it's easier to script 300 suspensions and 200 permas then to find out and delete Item number #, and item number #, and item number # from each individual player that has exploited the system.
(From a DB admin's POV)

Maybe so, but official policy from what I understood was that first offense was 72hr ban, 2nd was permanent for cheating/hacking. Fleetool, and POS both had 72hr bans on first offense, and personally I'd consider them worse than the salvage glitch because you have to actually download 3rd party software, and the results were much more exploitive than tripling the drop rate.
Click to expand...

First offense is the key word there indeed, not everyone got slammed with the perma-hammer.
The majority got away with just a 72 hour suspension like you said.
Some of the folks that got permed either already had an offense and if I am reading that report correctly SE did make quite a distinguishment between the people that tried it a few times and people that consecutively exploited this bug until it got fixed.
 
We're up to 67 relics, 2 mythics and 10 LS leaders now, not counting this server.
 
First offense is the key word there indeed, not everyone got slammed with the perma-hammer.
The majority got away with just a 72 hour suspension like you said.
Some of the folks that got permed either already had an offense and if I am reading that report correctly SE did make quite a distinguishment between the people that tried it a few times and people that consecutively exploited this bug until it got fixed.
Click to expand...
I've been hearing otherwise, people with multiple offenses getting off with a temp ban, people who were clean getting perm banned, and rather inconsistent application. If you at one point used a hack, got a temp ban (or anything else that caused a temp ban) then yeah, a full ban for this is acceptable.
 
Daveman said:
I've been hearing otherwise, people with multiple offenses getting off with a temp ban, people who were clean getting perm banned, and rather inconsistent application. If you at one point used a hack, got a temp ban (or anything else that caused a temp ban) then yeah, a full ban for this is acceptable.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind, people are not always truthful about their track record ;)
And the ones slapped with just a 72 hour suspension are the ones you hear the least.

'Hey where've you been the last 3 days?'
'Oh I've been [insert any rl reason that cannot be checked]'
 
Last edited:
Shirai said:
Keep in mind, people are not always truthful about their track record ;)
Click to expand...

Oh I'm more than well aware of that. I'm gonna believe them (at least some of them) because they're well known (as in, their personalities) and they're not the type to lie about something like that. I'm sure it's possible they've all lied but I'm willing to bet a lot that at least a few are telling the truth.
 
I just think for any of you who are bashing SE (glad to see a majority are not) you're out of sync on the situation. The amount of execration you people have for SE as a company perhaps is painfully obvious in everyone else's perspective however, an inane reason to deprave them of their integrity. Being the intelligent individuals you are I'm sure you can comprehend that everything was executed well within the scope of general policies.

My reason?

1. You break the law, You go on a killing spree : You break the ToS, You duplicate instanced drops.
2. Law enforcement apprehends you, and sentences you to life for a felony : SE investigations apprehends you and sentences your character to life for a violation.

You have no rationalism to patronize SE for their actions.

Everyone who has been banned no matter how popular or "skilled" at the game deserved it. I'm not even going to exclude the people who honestly didn't know about the duplication bug and were just caught in the middle of their alliance performing the law breaking occurrences. You had a choice to either; A: Report the bug to a GM using the Help Desk function that's conveniently provided for you in the game, or B: Keep it a secret knowing you would eventually exploit the function for your own benefit. Obviously 100% of you who were caught in that situation choose the latter, so you deserved a 72 day temp ban. Pchan is right, good players don't cheat and saying they're "good players" is nothing more than a misnomer. After reading the farewell letters posted all over the internet, it's obvious most of the "known good players" botted, took advantage of several duplicate gardening and instanced bugs and are simply now paying for their actions according to the Terms of Service you agreed to when you initially stepped foot into Vana'Diel.

1: You robbed the government for billions in monetary notes, become one of the most successful personnel, authorities catch you, you're done for. : You robbed FFXI servers of virtual goods, become one of the most distinguished players, investigators catch you, you're done for.

In the end, you're a law breaker, you're a crook, you're a cheater, you deserve no honor, and you deserve to be booted out of life and or the game and you have no reason to be happy, sad, bashful or thankful for what has happened. The one and only empathy you should have for yourself is shame. And no matter how forbearing or warmhearted you would like your farewell addresses to be considered from others, you know deep down inside all you feel is shame for yourself, your friends, your family and the time you wasted playing this game as a cheater.

I probably won't enjoy the game more than I already do, but I'll rest assured knowing over 500 disgraced individuals are gone after gloating about their perfidious actions making them who they seem they were and that even tho not all but there is and will be a higher percentage of honest players that surround me and the general honest population of players.

Plain and simple. I hope this wasn't too hard for you obstinate people to understand.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top