Haste question

[Kire]

Uh, they removed spell haste from Hundred Fists decades ago.

i thought they just cut if from 90% to 50%? aww that sucks but what i said is main resson mnks wars and thf get haste over a drk as they have /random attacks that help alot more

 

[Nibble]

..

in my opinion it is a RDM's place to haste every melee except tank..

my order usually ends something to the effect of..

Refresh me via my ONLY RDM MACRO.. that has a timer on it that reminds me when refresh is about to go down (it says "/Echo >> Refresh @ 10")
haste DD
refresh mage
haste DD
refresh mage
haste DD

when my screen says ">> Refresh @ 10" i just do my order again.. therefore making REFRESH AND HASTE stay up 24/7.. never going down once i initially begin fighting.. this way mages are all happy and so are melee.. who can complain with NEVER having to ask for refresh or haste? sure its a little MP IN-efficient but i never seem to have issues on MP with this order and with enfeebling.. tossing a cure when needed.. dispelling.. any usually using some type of bar spell..

~nib

p.s. can someone explain why plds NEED haste? i never understood this.. i never need haste nor expect it when i play my pld.. doesnt help me enought for its MP cost.. but when on my rdm i just tell the whm to haste the tank..

 

[Skaw]

i thought they just cut if from 90% to 50%? aww that sucks but what i said is main resson mnks wars and thf get haste over a drk as they have /random attacks that help alot more

No, even without those, mnk, thf, war, nin, pld would tear ass in the TP department because of the TP system. It doesn't favor high delay weapons at all.

 

[Kire]

No, even without those, mnk, thf, war, nin, pld would tear ass in the TP department because of the TP system. It doesn't favor high delay weapons at all.

not all wars some wars use G axe not the /nin dual axes

 

[Shaidalyn]

Wait, it's a red mages job to haste all the melee's? You're what level? Cause I can't see any decent Rdm doing that.

Refresh self -40mp / +120
haste tank -40mp
refresh mage -40mp
haste DD1 -40mp
refresh mage -40mp
haste DD2 -40mp

Okay you've spent 240mp, regened 120 so you're -120
now factor in if you have a pld, thats another -40 making you -60
And debuffs! You MUST land DiaII(or BioII)Para/Slow/Blind/Gravity or you're a crappy Rdm (Blm's shouldn't have to debuff unless they want to, I only ask them for Poison)
Now my game isn't up so I can't see EXACT cost but Dia II is ~24? Bio II is like 40? Para is 5, Slow 15, Blind.. 12? Gravity no idea..

Either way you're ending up with over -200 per fight if you NEVER get resists and not including any MBing you do.
Yeah, that's gonna be a HUGE chain with your terrible MP pool. WRONG

WHM have a job and have haste. If you can't spend 40mp for Haste, you're A: A really bad WHM, B: dealing with a crappy tank, or C: in the wrong area to exp.

I love whm, and I can EASILY refresh at least 2 people every single fight, heal, I land Dia II, Para, and Slow, and STILL MB once and a while when the Blu does fusion just for giggles.

A rdm's job is to ENFEEBLE followed by Refresh. a Rdm is not a "everything whore" Want a Rdm to do everything? remove whm from the game entirely.
Rdm's are not just to refresh and haste. We have MANY duties. I can take the place of a blm, or a whm. Neither will be as effective, but if you are NOT lacking them, make use of them.
That is all.

 

[Skaw]

Mages don't really need haste though. If they're spamming that much, theres an issue.

 

[Shaidalyn]

That wasn't to me right Skaw? I've never Hasted a mage aside if they got slowed, or a whm when PT is hit with a HUGE aoe that needs Erase (like Spider Web -.-) or Blu, I haste blu if I can...

 

[Mishaela]

Personally, I always start with tank, then whomever gets TP the slowest (however, whomever is involved in SC gets priority over someone who gets TP slow and ISN'T in SC)

 

[Marajade]

A rdm's job is to ENFEEBLE followed by Refresh. a Rdm is not a "everything whore" Want a Rdm to do everything? remove whm from the game entirely.
Rdm's are not just to refresh and haste. We have MANY duties. I can take the place of a blm, or a whm. Neither will be as effective, but if you are NOT lacking them, make use of them.
That is all.

This posted with a 75BLM sitting right next to me, and Conversing with TWO 75 RDMs via TeamSpeak.

Actualy, if the job of a RDM was to enfeeble, you'd not have a place in most parties. Refresh is what gets you into a party over.. Most other jobs.
Enfeeble? All you can do that a NIN cant is Gravity. Ni level blind and slow are actualy MORE potent than yours, and will give them hate, thus they tank better.
Cures? Less MP, less base MND/Healing Magic skill for less potent cures, you get them later, and dont get -agas or Cure5.
Nukes? Elemental Magic Skill too low (C+) to make a significant impact on the mobs life, and dont have acces to Tier4 spells, or -agas.
Refresh is what tips the balance towards RDM in each and every situation.

P.S. A good RDM can keep haste on 5 people at once, and can refresh 6 people while main-healing a PLD.

 

[hellstorm]

That wasn't to me right Skaw? I've never Hasted a mage aside if they got slowed, or a whm when PT is hit with a HUGE aoe that needs Erase (like Spider Web -.-) or Blu, I haste blu if I can...

haste wont overwrite spider web it the stronger spell.

 

[Marajade]

haste wont overwrite spider web it the stronger spell.

she ment so they can cast more erase in a shorter period of time.

 

[Mokk]

This posted with a 75BLM sitting right next to me, and Conversing with TWO 75 RDMs via TeamSpeak.

Actualy, if the job of a RDM was to enfeeble, you'd not have a place in most parties. Refresh is what gets you into a party over.. Most other jobs.
Enfeeble? All you can do that a NIN cant is Gravity. Ni level blind and slow are actualy MORE potent than yours, and will give them hate, thus they tank better.
Cures? Less MP, less base MND/Healing Magic skill for less potent cures, you get them later, and dont get -agas or Cure5.
Nukes? Elemental Magic Skill too low (C+) to make a significant impact on the mobs life, and dont have acces to Tier4 spells, or -agas.
Refresh is what tips the balance towards RDM in each and every situation.

P.S. A good RDM can keep haste on 5 people at once, and can refresh 6 people while main-healing a PLD.

Ninja's who knew how to cast more than utsu on themselves used to be a rarity, how's that going for folks now?

If it's the same as it was i can dig a rdm feeling compelled to debuff.

Personally as a monk ... <3 haste. No excuse not to put it on everyone if you can manage it responsibly, otherwise leave it to your melees unless mages need for the situations described previously (AOE's and whatnot).

 

[hellstorm]

If you have a well equipped SAM they should be the last person that you haste. TP for them is easy. THF normally will have such fast attacks that haste for them is really just to lower SATA timers. I've had much better results hasting the people that miss and have a big delay weapon i.e. DRK and DRG are the first I'll hit after the tank.

you are forgeting though higher delay weapon also mean they do more dmg per swing and get more tp per swing. just look at somepage weapon each one has amount tp per swing ratio. I normally give to the one that seem to need it most. If there is a large delay between dd# 1 reaching 100 and dd# 2 reaching 100 it mean the slower one need haste. If they go about even i normally give to the 3rd dd if melee.

(this all consideing tank taken care of)

 

[Courtney]

I think the reason the RDM was to haste the mellees was because the WHM was already refreshing the tank....

The normal order for haste is firstly the tank (to increase the amount of hate generated) then the mellees in order of slowest TP generation to highest. It's often more player specific (or gear specific) than job specific, but it's more important to get the haste on the player that's holding up the skill chain. That may even be the SAM if he's involved in two skill chains... the aim is to get as many renkei's in as possible.

Who hastes is pretty situational too... normally the RDM has more MP and doesn't need to be as responsive as the WHM (casting haste means about 8 sec where you can't cast something else if things go wrong) and it often makes sense to have Haste as part of the refresh cycle so it's not forgotten. If the WHM doesn't need to cure very much though, taking on more of the hasting will allow the RDM to take on more enfeebling/magic bursting. Conserving WHM MP is far more important than conserving RDM MP though...

...and Refresh is 150MP returned (or 600 every 10 minutes). A RDM in a normal exp party will plan to spend 200-250MP per mob

 

[Kire]

nin>war>mnk>thf>sam>drk>any DDs i missed
thats order i say when im party leader i did not put in pld as plds dont need haste they need regen instead

 

[Mishaela]

In Shaid's defense, landing a good Silence can be EXTREMELY useful at times. BLM can land it sortof reliably (PFFT@WHM trying to land enfeebds on VT/IT effectively...), but they won't get a terribly good duration on it vs VT/ITs and that'd just end witht hem getting up more than they should hafto, and that ends in their MP getting run down quickly. So yeh, RDM is best in certain situations, not just as Refresher.

And you could say that RDM's nukes make them useless because they're "so weak", but thefact that they getting decent healing magic and elemental magic allows em to be a "pretty good" healer and nuker both at once, which can be especially useful when a party may happen to need just a little of both. They won't be the best at either, but you already knew that.

 

[Skaw]

In concurrance with Mara, Jubaku: Ni would be one pretty sick paralyze. Thankfully it doesn't exist.

 

[Kire]

In concurrance with Mara, Jubaku: Ni would be one pretty sick paralyze. Thankfully it doesn't exist.

and nins dont have any stun spells

 

[Skaw]

..kay.

 

[decidence]

Any skilled RDM can haste an entire cannon PT, be main healer, refresh themselves and land Dia II, Paralyze etc, without letting haste fall off a melee for more then a few seconds.