Haste VS ATK VS ACC Your view ?

What the hell? I thought you actually understood the math since you were quick to pull out a (rather meaningless) model.

Ok, for the slow people. Let's see what happens when you deviate from the 95% cap (since you make so little of it). And Uzor, since you seem illiterate or something and somehow missed the whole part about why homam + meat doesn't work on strong mobs, it will be explained below.

Let's take a baseline 75-80% accuracy. This is likely what you'd be hitting on an ulegurand mob if you have fairly good equipment and you do NOT eat sushi. For the sake of argument, we'll take 80%, since that number was brought up.

Someone who hits 80% needs to attack either: ~19% faster, or needs to hit 19% harder per hit to match someone who hits 95%. And this is only for normal melee damage. The loss of 15% accuracy on WS is huge, as the TP COEFFICIENT OF A WS IS APPLIED ONLY TO THE FIRST HIT. In other words, if you miss your first hit, your WS damage goes to shit.

Approach 1: get 19% haste. You still can't match the 95% acc performance, since your WS damage will suffer disproportinately. And coming up with 20%+ haste is not trivial in the first place. This is unpractical.

Approach 2: eat meat. It will depend on whether you have a bard or not, but you will most likely not get get a 19% boost in your per-hit damage, but for the sake of argument, let's say it does. You still lose out in the WS department, because despite the damage increase, you lose a disproportionate amount of damage in the event your first hit misses (but that still happens with equal probability as the other hits).

If you're fighting puks or something, yeah sure, meat works great, because you can still probably hit 90% and higher (they're T for god's sake). But why don't you parse yourself eating meat on the higher merit mobs like the demons and mamools? There's a good reason why sushi became mainstream, you know.
 
Uzor said:
btw. There's one thing in your formula that you completely ignore that proves its false. And at the very least proves there's more then that formula, which you said "Is the only one".

Melee attacks, accuracy, and magic resistance, all vary depending on the mob's level. A mob several levels above you will be harder to hit then an even match one. That's one of the reasons your accuracy suddenly increases by a noticable amount as soon as you level, even though you didn't gain any skill, nor did you equip any new equipment.

Magic resistance doesn't have a tangible level modifier. That's why magic is useful on HNMs and such where the check is basically skill vs mob level for resists and INT vs INT for damage.

And that aside, I fail to see your point. The accuracy rating is the accuracy rating. It's JUST A NUMBER LIKE ATK EXCEPT IT'S NOT DISPLAYED ON YOUR STAT SCREEN. It's just the smallest unit by which your raw accuracy is determined by the game. Do you think there's anything special about the numbers 420, 415, 390, etc? No, they are just the input values to the hit/miss function (which, for all intents and purposes, is a black box to us) which produce the 95% raw accuracy results on the aformentioned mobs (at level 75, I will add).
 
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metachronism said:
Magic resistance doesn't have a tangible level modifier. That's why magic is useful on HNMs and such where the check is basically skill vs mob level for resists and INT vs INT for damage.

And that aside, I fail to see your point. The accuracy rating is the accuracy rating. It's JUST A NUMBER LIKE ATK EXCEPT IT'S NOT DISPLAYED ON YOUR STAT SCREEN. It's just the smallest unit by which your raw accuracy is determined by the game. Do you think there's anything special about the numbers 420, 415, 390, etc? No, they are just the input values to the hit/miss function (which, for all intents and purposes, is a black box to us) which produce the 95% raw accuracy results on the aformentioned mobs (at level 75, I will add).

Actually, magic resistance do. What doesn't have a level difference is magical damage, which is one of the reasons magic > melee.
 
There's really no need arguing with you. You're too retarded to grasp common concepts.
 
How did this become about Sushi? Last I recalled, it was about gear and not food? I never mentioned anything about food and as I recalled, this was about haste gear vs. accuracy/attack gear.
 
I've been wondering this for a while. Why do drk wear homam body? When I look at it it +15 acc seems inferior to athe stats on a hauby.
The +5 acc boost and the 5% triple attack just seems inferior to me overthe +5str+5dex and +20 atk you miss from having a homam body on instead of hauby.
 
Lavi said:
How did this become about Sushi? Last I recalled, it was about gear and not food? I never mentioned anything about food and as I recalled, this was about haste gear vs. accuracy/attack gear.

...Because you all seem to be unable to solve a simple optimization problem?

1) THERE IS NO REASON TO HAVE MORE ACC BEYOND THE CAP.

Of course food should be accounted for. Or are you one of those people who go xping without food? Equipment choice is dependent on what food you assume. If you have top end accuracy gear stacked up, sushi pushes your accuracy beyond what is needed to hit 95%, making it a total waste. I fail to see why you and uzor can't understand such a simple principle.

2) THERE IS ALSO NO REASON TO TOSS ACCURACY IN LEIU OF HASTE BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A SINGLE EQUIPMENT SLOT WHICH PROVIDES MORE DAMAGE PER TIME UNIT BY MEANS OF HASTE.

The only exception to this is probably speed belt, which can outdo the effects of a life belt by a small margin.

Haste equipment on DD jobs is for MERIT LEVELS where the mobs are relatively weak and you can already get 90%+ accuracy. If you are tossing accuracy down so low for your haste that you are hitting 80% when you could be hitting 90%. You can't do math. Please tell me how you justify the exchange of ~20 acc for 12% haste, or how you'd even attain that in the first place. And I've already gone over the fact that that only matches the damage in non-WS, so you still lose out on damage.

Please tell me what is so difficult about this.
 
Uzor said:
There's really no need arguing with you. You're too retarded to grasp common concepts.

What common concept am I missing? It looks to me like you just can't do simple arithmetic, on top of not understanding data unitization.

The forumula only quantifies the relationship between the stats and and the basic unit the game uses called "accuracy". Why are you going into level mods?

That's like complaining the atk value you see on your stat screen in somehow fake because it doesn't take into account the levels 1-92 mobs you could be fighting. *rolls eyes*
 
metachronism said:
What common concept am I missing? It looks to me like you just can't do simple arithmetic, on top of not understanding data unitization.

The forumula only quantifies the relationship between the stats and and the basic unit the game uses called "accuracy". Why are you going into level mods?

That's like complaining the atk value you see on your stat screen in somehow fake because it doesn't take into account the levels 1-92 mobs you could be fighting. *rolls eyes*

Simple. Because level DOES matter. And you're arguing the formula, only, nothing else. Which is pure idiocy.

As for the last one, you're taking it WAY overboard. That argument is probably the most stuupid one I have heard. Ever. :rtfm:
 
Uzor said:
Simple. Because level DOES matter. And you're arguing the formula, only, nothing else. Which is pure idiocy.

As for the last one, you're taking it WAY overboard. That argument is probably the most stuupid one I have heard. Ever. :rtfm:

...Wow, I knew you weren't the brightest lightbulb around here, but this is just sad. Do you have a high school diploma?

What the hell don't you understand? You are complaining the ACCURACY RATING DERIVATION FORMULA doesn't account for level, which is beyond retardation. That is a function which converts all inputs into a single ACCURACY RATING VALUE output (as in, if your stat screen had an accuracy stat display, that's the number it'll show--a useless number, just like atk, without a reference mob).

It is NOT the blackbox function which takes mob stats and your stats and spits out your hit/miss decision. Yes, level is a parameter to THAT function, but how is this relevant to the topic? You already have a reference value range when you're talking about equipment choice for xp/merit.

Or did you want to talk about how to optimize your equipment as a level 1 puppet master for when you fight kirin? You didn't do too well in the lab classes at school, did you? You fail at problem scoping.
 
metachronism said:
...Wow, I knew you weren't the brightest lightbulb around here, but this is just sad. Do you have a high school diploma?

What the hell don't you understand? You are complaining the ACCURACY RATING DERIVATION FORMULA doesn't account for level, which is beyond retardation. That is a function which converts all inputs into a single ACCURACY RATING VALUE output (as in, if your stat screen had an accuracy stat display, that's the number it'll show--a useless number, just like atk, without a reference mob).

If you'd bother reading my posts you'd see that's not what I'm arguing against. If you'd bother gettign past second grade, you'd see that I'm arguing agaisnt the fact that all your arguments about equipment is based on that one formula. You don't consider things like mob level agaisnt your own level.

But apparently, you're too retarded to see that. Either that or you skip through all of the posts. I'd say its both.
 
Uzor said:
If you'd bother reading my posts you'd see that's not what I'm arguing against. If you'd bother gettign past second grade, you'd see that I'm arguing agaisnt the fact that all your arguments about equipment is based on that one formula. You don't consider things like mob level agaisnt your own level.

But apparently, you're too retarded to see that. Either that or you skip through all of the posts. I'd say its both.

Illiteracy at its best: when one can't comprehend what he wrote himself:
Uzor said:
btw. There's one thing in your formula that you completely ignore that proves its false. And at the very least proves there's more then that formula, which you said "Is the only one".

In what dialect of the english language is that sentence not supposed to be interpreted as: "the formula is false because it doesn't take level into consideration"? Go take an ESL class before posting please.

Either way, it's moot. If you missed it, "target acc rating" is something used only for merits. Duh, because the level is an invariant once you're 75. The numbers listed earlier in the thread are for level 75s. I hope you're not *that* retarded to not understand that the empirical observation of 95%, combined with the provable correctness of the stat->acc rating function is sufficient to prove the validity of the target acc numbers.
 
This is what I hate about QCDN, people simply cannot argue something as basic as gear setups without throwing personal insults into every topic. Worry more about growing up and less about your gear setups.
 
I don't know the answer to this, but the idiots that buy the 2% haste belt and no other haste gear are fucking morons.
 
You know, I'm all for having a peaceful discussion, but Uzor, in my past experience, is very quick to throw insults when he doesn't have anything material to say (as he has done so in this thread as well). And I'm afraid I'm not the kind of person who can keep responding in a civil manner when I'm met with hostility.
 
Khajit said:
I've been wondering this for a while. Why do drk wear homam body? When I look at it it +15 acc seems inferior to all the stats on a hauby.
The +5 acc boost and the 5% triple attack just seems inferior to me overthe +5str+5dex and +20 atk you miss from having a homam body on instead of hauby.
So can anyone answer my question now that youre done arguing?
And the long swingtime on a scythe/gsword doesnt help my thoughts on homam body since the only way i can think of to take advantage of triple attack is to attack more via haste thus procing more triple attacks and so far opinion on drk+ haste gear is meh at best.
 
Khajit said:
So can anyone answer my question now that youre done arguing?
And the long swingtime on a scythe/gsword doesnt help my thoughts on homam body since the only way i can think of to take advantage of triple attack is to attack more via haste thus procing more triple attacks and so far opinion on drk+ haste gear is meh at best.
Only drks who want to flex their e-peen in whitegate wear homam. It's a piece of garbage gear for drk, but it's rare and looks pretty. You probably just see it around town cause people like how it looks.
 
For merits, there are some builds that let you have enough acc that you can eat meat (in fact, on weak stuff like puks, spongilla fly, jnun, imp, it's pretty easy). Homam would be a good choice for such builds. Also, while it's rare, if you have an agreement beforehand, the bard can sing madrigal, and all the melees can go for acc build and eat meat.

But other than that, I agree that for most builds, haubergeon would probably produce better results overall. But come on, Homam Corazza is still pretty rare. I'd wear it just to show off. Wouldn't you? :P I mean, everyone and their mom has a haubergeon these days, it seems.
 
Rappa said:
Only drks who want to flex their e-peen in whitegate wear homam. It's a piece of garbage gear for drk, but it's rare and looks pretty. You probably just see it around town cause people like how it looks.

So I was completely right.... Every time a drk runs around in homam body God creates an RMT to punish us and kills a kitten.

I kept on wondering and hoping that there was some magic way to make it decent via angol+brutal and other crap strung together with the right abs spells. Yep my annoyance when a drk wears one is completely justified. i mean.. there wasnt Anyone that coulda used it instead? Thats like a rdm or rng getting w legs over a pld. They do wear the corazza in exp btw cause ive seen it in a search comment for exp. Luckily i tend to ignore stuff thats blatantly wtf until i see a valid argument for it or can make my own opinion on it.


BTw whats some low level suggestions I might not know for leveling a lowbie drk?Any obscure weapons? I'm going to have to start unlocking /emo soon cause I wanna feel more useful in big fights via stun or /wrists a.k.a. souleater. Going from a job with 150-200delay weapons to that gsword for unlocking it is like waiting on ulli to pop without the anticipation. Harness my inner rage eh? I dont need to kill 100 for that. I can just wait for it to swing the first time.
 
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