Help me settle a brd disagreement

Lenneth

Balrog
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Mar 30, 2005
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winnipeg,manitoba,canada
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Ninja-Female
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Lenneth
I know very little about BRD in terms of what they tend to look for in gear, but I know that CHR is one of the main stats. Both the Kirin's Osode and Errant Hpl have the same +10CHR. The Kirin's Osode however, has an extra 30MP so I think that if the BRD was subbing /whm, then the Kirin's O. would be a better choice. Other than that, I don't see much of a different in "xp party" situations between the two pieces. (I could be wrong if the other stats are needed for BRD?)

And then for the Dalmatica, unless the BRD is /whm I don't think there's much use for this aside from maybe some soloing. Not much there that's going to help with song casting, which is a BRDs main priority.
 
you forget yiggit body.
 
I'm no brd either but Dalmatica seems like it shouldn't even be on the list of options. Refresh and MP aren't a brd's main priorities, Houppelande and Osode will at least affect their primary role positively.

Agreed that Osode shouldn't be a high priority for brd though, Houppelande is almost equivalent if not higher due to the -enmity.
 
brds use an osode? lol? Sha'ir if you can otherwise a combo of Errant/Yigit is just fine. Osode is e-peen/crap for brd. You should be using Yigit to cast faster buffs on your pt so you're losing that +hp/mp anyway. Osode I guess is okay for non-xp situations, but not really.
 
Yeah I can safely say no to the Dalmatica thing. Even /whm on a bard, that piece would be grossly unnecessary, as it gives a lot of attention to specifically the /whm and nothing really to bard main.

As for the debate between Osode and Errant, I'm not about to say bards should be priority on osode. It's an extremely desirable piece for them undoubtedly due to the fact that there is more MP and the same +10 to mnd, int & chr stats with an additional +10 to good soloing stats (though soloing is obviously not a prevalent bard past time). With Errant, the -enmity is the only real benefit and -3 isn't mindblowing, especially if you've got -enmity merits, but every bit helps.

While I would love to eventually have an osode (especially since I could use it on more than one job), I would not cry priority on it, no. I agree with Rappa that it's more a piece to say you have one (kind of like sha'ir manteel once yigit was introduced). I use Errant on mob debuffs and lullaby, and Yigit for party buffs and that works just fine.
 
Osode is only for the vit when you pull and something tries to hit you. Saying they deserve to get priority on it in any way when 60k gives you all the "important" stats from it in the same slot is bullshit.
Bst mnk and rng are the only jobs where it's not a 100% epeen or "I was too gimp to buy a hauby before lv 75" item.
 
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I dont know how Brds keep saying dalmatica isnt good for them yet sing the praises about the +30MP on osode. dalmatica has +50 mp and refresh. surely the loss of 10 CHR when every brd piece gives massive CHR cannot be that major.
 
Direct usefulness for BRD without concern for whether or not you should get it:

Osode: basically pulling gear. Was tanking gear too pre-Mazurka hate nerf.

Errant/AF+1: what you wear for most endgameish stuff, since it has beefy CHR and -enmity. AF+1 also doubles as pulling gear as well.

Minstrel's Coat: if you have plenty of CHR elsewhere, the 3 skill may edge out one of the 10 CHR bodies. Usually, however, body is one of the main slots to get CHR, and you do need *some* (just not ridiculously huge amounts). So, situational debuffing piece.

Yigit/Manteel: macro in for buffs (casting speed is determined when you *start* casting, unlike most magely stuff which is determined when the spell goes off). Yigit doubles as hMP gear too.

Vermy/Dalm: only ever useful with mage sub, of course. Vermy's a reasonably justifiable purchase. Dalm is an improvement, with more MP and a freed-up head slot.

AF2: lolmeleeBRD.

Marduk: Salvage gear nuisance aside, this is basically debuffing gear + dalm/vermy wrapped into one (though you'd want to throw on something with more -enmity for endgame stuff, when not actively debuffing), with a bit of fast cast (of yet unknown amount) thrown in as well. Rare enough to not really be applicable yet.

Relative to other stuff:

Osode: not many jobs have a huge claim on this any more (RNG and BST are notable for getting mileage out of it), but it's still at least a macro piece for most of them. I'd give it to a dedicated BRD over a newbie something-that-can-use-it-better, but otherwise I'd prioritize usefulness, and BRD doesn't get much out of it.

Errant: buyable, not applicable.

AF+1: job-specific so technically not applicable, however getting AF+1 body means *not* getting AF+1 hands or legs, which offer somewhat less replaceable stats (i.e. beefy +skill). Also costs a reasonably hefty 40 coins. So even a BRD who does Limbus regularly might not be getting this for a while.

Minstrel's Coat: uninteresting to any job except BRD, really, so not applicable.

Yigit: spend your Assault points on whatever you like, not applicable.

Manteel: job-specific so not applicable, however it's worth noting that it's bloody expensive if you don't have the option (shell that does Vrtra or Bahamut v2) of getting one free. Yigit is effectively comparable.

Vermy: buyable so not applicable.

Dalmatica: WHM and BLM and SMN all have better and more accessible options, really. RDM gets more mileage out of the refresh, the MP, and the freed-up head slot, than BRD does. Again, best for something like this to go to a dedicated BRD over a newbie RDM, but otherwise RDM > BRD > others.

AF2: job-specific so not applicable, also lolmeleeBRD.

Marduk: same argument as Dalmatica about the auto-refresh bit (read: WHM and SMN have better *and* more accessible options), and otherwise the stats (on this particular piece) are more interesting to BRD than to the others.

Summary:

For reasonable effectiveness, Errant (debuffing, -enmity), Yigit (-cast time, resting MP), and Vermy (refresh) are all a BRD really needs (oh, and something with def/VIT to wear for pulling). AF+1, Manteel and Dalmatica are nice improvements respectively (noting that Dalmatica is better off with RDMs in general, and AF+1 serves as very nice pulling gear), but are ultimately little more than luxury. Marduk would be well worth considering if it were more accessible, as-is it's more in the pipe dream category still.

For a fresh high level BRD, Errant and something non-squishy to pull in (such as Cardinal Vest or something) is just fine for starters, and you can expand from there (doing Assaults for Yigit isn't too hard). Don't go nuts over Osode unless you're also getting it for some *other* job, it doesn't do much for BRD.
 
Yeah I can safely say no to the Dalmatica thing. Even /whm on a bard, that piece would be grossly unnecessary, as it gives a lot of attention to specifically the /whm and nothing really to bard main.

While dalmatica does not play to BRD's abilities, it is quite useful in many endgame situations. BRD isn't just a singer, they are a support job. The extra Erase, ~na spells and curaga IIs from bards shouldn't be overlooked, as that support can win a fight, or help make hate management a lot more stable. As in exp, brds rarely get to rest, and they can't have ballad on them all the time (I'm sure you knew that already, but...). Also, when comparing Dalm to V.Cloak... dalm allows bard to wear their hat, which allows them to have refresh on all the time.

The dalm bards I know have no decrease in performance when it comes to landing elegy, so obviously they aren't hurting their job by losing that potential 10CHR. AND even if it were an issue, offensive songs cast very quickly so you could easily macro in another piece for the offensive song nad than go back to dalm for buffs and curing. in short, dalm is a very good piece for brd, probably the best in the game for endurance fights. I don't understand why people were saying otherwise.

to OP: Osode does benifit brd, but there are many alternatives as you pointed out... and most are generally considered better. It wouldn't hurt to put them over the everyone else category i guess, but... they probably shouldn't be first in line.
 
One more thing... the brd i was talking too said something about the light element on the osode helping them in some way, this pretty much sparked a bullshit alarm for me, but incase i missed a mechanic of those elements in gear (which i thought were just resistances) please do tell.
 
The light element on the osode will help them resist light elemental magic attacks such as Carby Searing Light. That's *it*.
 
A light staff helps to land light songs such as lullaby, but i'm not sure if light on armour does the same?

I think it would be: Errant for songcasting, dalmatica for healing and osode for solo'ing
 
Light Staff does it because of its hidden effect, not because of its elemental resistance (which is +dark anyway, not +light). Ditto for the other elemental staves and HQs thereof.

Then again, I've heard some people claim that the reason Wind Torque is good for landing songs is because of the wind elemental (not the wind *skill*, like most of us would look at it) on it. :P
 
to OP: Osode does benifit brd, but there are many alternatives as you pointed out... and most are generally considered better. It wouldn't hurt to put them over the everyone else category i guess, but... they probably shouldn't be first in line.

To me, the meager benefits don't outweigh the meager benefits that other jobs get from it. Really to me, rng > all for osode. But to each his/her own.
 
BRD Osode is cosmetic, because lets face it, errant is UGLY.

Dalmatica priotity goes RDM>BRD>restofthejobs

Sha'ir/Yigit for casting buff songs, errant for casting Debuffs, and when not casting, you wear verm/dalmatica.
 
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