Higher level NIN EQ

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meeze

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Meeze
When do I swap eva gear out for more att style gear? 75 merits? I've heard after 70+ or so evading isn't going to happen anyway, so around then start building more melee geared eq?
 
basicly, untill merits you never stop using tanking style gear in traditional parties. SH, evasion earrings, Emp. pin/O.Hat, ect. But around 40-50, you can stop being obsessive about it.
Wearing O.Kotes is good, because higher damage is more hate, provided that the mobs arent highly evasive or terribly accurate that -5eva means somthing.
 
Tank in a Hauby, Spike Earrings<or mermans> Chiv chain, the royal Knight's breeches, any the Fuma's, Swift belt, Voyager's Sallet< or emp pin>, sniper's/woods, bombcore/bailathorn, amemet(+1)

Evasion in xp tanking is overrated, just go all out on Att and have fun never losing hate.

Don't get me wrong, those extra one or two shadows per fight are nice, but I would reccomend the Att gear over evasion gear for xp, and evasion gear over Att gear for solo.
 
Blazeoffury said:
Tank in a Hauby, Spike Earrings<or mermans> Chiv chain, the royal Knight's breeches, any the Fuma's, Swift belt, Voyager's Sallet< or emp pin>, sniper's/woods, bombcore/bailathorn, amemet(+1)
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Only tank in this gear if you're in a burn party. If you're in a normal party you'll make your mages cry or yourself from XP loss. You're going to loose a good 5-6 unecessary shadows, some fights not evading much at all, wearing this stuff per battle so factor in if you can actually afford that for your party. Remember, you're job is to tank and not get hit, DD is secondary. Ninjas that *need* this stuff to tank are either in burn parties, and it's cool, or flat out don't know how to play the job, which isn't cool. Your tools are to be used and not just lightly here and there. They can build you a very considerable amount of hate. Evasion is only overrated if you suck at casting your spells, in most cases, as you're going to get ownd no matter what. Until you're not getting hit except for once or twice every few fights, keep with the evasion. 70-73 I wore my normal evasion set up until ready to WS then switched to ATK gear. 73-75 it just depended on the area. I hit 75 in whatever area Guivre spawns in, been so long I forgot, off Wyverns and tigers wearing mostly my ATK gear because the mobs were pretty lawlerskates for my statics set up. When I did the occasional weapons camp, 70-75, I wore all evasion gear until 75 with normal parties, until WS, because those guys can get pretty nasty, again... depending on your party set up.
 
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lv 57-65 go evs

65+ i would go out full DD
lv 75 haste build
 
Mara sumd that up nicely, keep your eva + haste build for tp gain in normal parties, but turn into a str att and acc junky for your jin macro. A lot of the reason why nin's go all haste and att end game for merits is because they only hold hate half the time anyway with fully geard wars/mnks with merits. It's not easy but doable. Stick to sushi too, att food at your lvl will be a wiff fest.
 
Eormanric said:
Mara sumd that up nicely, keep your eva + haste build for tp gain in normal parties, but turn into a str att and acc junky for your jin macro. A lot of the reason why nin's go all haste and att end game for merits is because they only hold hate half the time anyway with fully geard wars/mnks with merits. It's not easy but doable. Stick to sushi too, att food at your lvl will be a wiff fest.
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After 8/8 kantna merits remebeer change to meat in merits and sushi on hnms etc
 
In General....

The curve of dificulty for monsters changes at around Lv.60ish. At this time the difference between your Accuracy, the mob's Evasion, your Evasion, and the mob's Accuracy all take a dramatic turn. Even if you had 100 Evasion, you're not going to evade much, even worse, this is the levels that Most DD's get aditional Job traits that make Hate Management a little harder to deal with. All in all, the mob's accuracy is goign ot be so high, the return on an investment in evasion is going to be so minimal, it's outweighed greatly by the investment in attack/accuracy gear.

I use to argue the evasion Nin to death, but after watching a few different styles of tanking, I found the DD Nin outranks em all. One of the main reasons i find, is that the elemental wheel that makes things nice, really loses it's edge when it does the same exact damage from 40 to 75...

The tank I was with to 75 on my thief was an awesome tnak, galka, and an evasion build, with Emnity macroed in during Hate Spike events, like Provoke, Weaponskills(With proper Stats), etc. He was(and still is) an awesome tank. <3 Ardenbruk. However, keep in mind this was a party with a thief, and Hate was not an issue. Every fight started with a Skillchain onto the tank.

Later While leveling some of my more trying jobs I leveled with Talindra as her Nin, she had to almost exclusively use an Emnity Settup in order to keep hate off me, She did an excellent job, and I use to piss her off by intentionally pulling hate off her, but she really did well. The only problem I saw was post 60, I got new job traits and weapons/gear that made her job even more dificult, as did the other War, She got a new Weaponskill, but it wasn't enough, she needed to pull more numbers in the damage arena. The settup was worse case Scenario for her (Drk, War, Cor, Brd, Whm, Nin) and she STILL held hate.

On my Sam, I partied with every kind of tank, nothing held hate like a DD Nin. I really wish I knew the name of the guy, but his Macro sets and gear swaps were really intricate and prestine, but most of the time he wore hard core DD gear while tanking, and parsed pretty high.

My own opinion, My nin is reallly low level, but I kinda overkill the macros, I macro in Evade gear for Casting, int Gear/Mag.Att gear for Nukes(and Enfeebs), Accuracy/Attack Gear for Tanking, and an Emnity set for Job Abilities.

The thing that people kinda lost over the years is teamwork. Whms forget to flash, Drks/Blms forget to stun, and ninja's fall. You can tank neked if you got a good team to back you up.
 
Simplest answer... When evasion/enmity stops holding hate to your liking, or you just can't seem to dodge, start trading out evasion gear for damage gear. Depending on your gear/playstyle, that can be anywhere from 60 to 75, usually in the 70's.
 
meeze said:
When do I swap eva gear out for more att style gear? 75 merits? I've heard after 70+ or so evading isn't going to happen anyway, so around then start building more melee geared eq?
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i basically kept an evasion type setup until i hit 75... with sushi, you will still do some good damage... as long as your acc is there i would say about +85% would be a good number to effectively hold hate with your katana's... the best nin dd piece, is of course a hauby... if you have proper support, or are fighting easy d weapons.. then its easy to tank in a hauby..

for merits.. i merited katana and eva at the same time first.. and capped katana at 8 and capped eva at 4.. because you hold hate from your acc... and by capping your eva, you can switch to a bit more DD gear and get rid of some eva stuff... as long as your constantly hitting the mob you should be good with hate.. along with the normal provokes, enfeebles, and warcrys..

then the melee no brainer is to get crit hit rate to 4.. and if your normally a dd or a tank it wouldnt hurt to max or get emnity to 3 or 4

i think those are the more important merits if you want to focus on nin and being a decent tank..
 
Strid said:
Only tank in this gear if you're in a burn party. If you're in a normal party you'll make your mages cry or yourself from XP loss. You're going to loose a good 5-6 unecessary shadows, some fights not evading much at all, wearing this stuff per battle so factor in if you can actually afford that for your party. Remember, you're job is to tank and not get hit, DD is secondary. Ninjas that *need* this stuff to tank are either in burn parties, and it's cool, or flat out don't know how to play the job, which isn't cool. Your tools are to be used and not just lightly here and there. They can build you a very considerable amount of hate. Evasion is only overrated if you suck at casting your spells, in most cases, as you're going to get ownd no matter what. Until you're not getting hit except for once or twice every few fights, keep with the evasion. 70-73 I wore my normal evasion set up until ready to WS then switched to ATK gear. 73-75 it just depended on the area. I hit 75 in whatever area Guivre spawns in, been so long I forgot, off Wyverns and tigers wearing mostly my ATK gear because the mobs were pretty lawlerskates for my statics set up. When I did the occasional weapons camp, 70-75, I wore all evasion gear until 75 with normal parties, until WS, because those guys can get pretty nasty, again... depending on your party set up.
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You honestly shouldn't be worried about losing shadows at this point in time, and post-60 if you need to use the magical circle of fun to keep hate then something is seriously wrong, you're idea of Evasion+ is honestly overrated, Evasion+ is really pointless, Evasion Skill+ on the other hand is nice, when you have a lot of it stacked together. But as Phraust said higher up in levels you will be hardly evading at all and if you're with a decent party the fights will laast a maximum of 2 minutes, I tanked this way from 60-75 and I never had shadow problems or hate problems.
 
He's not that high lvl now though right? I.E he doens't have much haste, and if you dont evade shit. Your recasts are going to be long, and often find yourself with no shadows, at lower lvls in standard parties when you dont kill the mobs in like 15 seconds lol. I really do think evasion helps, but try to get +skill like torque and earring. I agree with dd'ing as ninja at later lvls, i stack haste and acc personally, then swap in about +50str for my jin. Mind you i still have nice attack during my tp build from things like koga chainmail and amemit +1.
 
It all depends on the party. When I first got a hauby I tanked on my ninja in it fulltime just to enjoy it for a bit. With proper support a.k.a. people doing what the hell theyre supposed to full out DD gear works fine. Infact I simply parried more which compensted for my lower evasion and kept up the same amount of shadows as before.
If you get summoners that do shitty bloodpacts or mages that dont haste you constantly ect you will not get the benefits you're hoping for from going DD. Shitty DD also will hold this style back since the longer the monster is alive the more likley you will screwup or you get badluck via a smart tp move by the mob.

Going DD nin is theoretically possible from level 59-60+ thanks to hauby and jin completing the tools needed to effectively do some good damage to a monster.
 
I'm only 64, but I've been going for more of an evasion setup, I'll take +skill where I can get it but if not I've been using +agi and +evasion. I've swapped out several of my pieces for +str/attack full time and I do a full gear change for my weapon skills. I haven't tried going all-out damage yet, especially since I don't have any haste gear; but I've noticed that during most fights I'm only evading a few attacks so I'm probably close to that threshold.

I'd imagine that once I hit 65, I'll have an easier time evading since I've got +12 evasion skill waiting for me.
 
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Don't listen to Delsus btw he believes anything a newb spits out on Killing Ifrit without ever experiencing it himself. On VT-IT mobs you will always want to use Sole Sushi because Jin is a multi-hit. Meat is only good for Assault, Limbus, Dynamis stuff where mobs evasion is equivalent to Tough or lower.
 
If your 8/8 katna merits you got to be Lv 75 NIN as only NIN can merit it.

People TP burn now days at 75.

Best TP burns are on T/VT.

Meat is best on T and finish chains on a VT.

Better exp a hour.

Is that clear decience?
 
He's not lv 75 yet.
Got that delsus?
 
decidence said:
Don't listen to Delsus btw he believes anything a newb spits out on Killing Ifrit without ever experiencing it himself. On VT-IT mobs you will always want to use Sole Sushi because Jin is a multi-hit. Meat is only good for Assault, Limbus, Dynamis stuff where mobs evasion is equivalent to Tough or lower.
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Agreed, i always eat sushi when i merit on nin.
 
Khajit said:
He's not lv 75 yet.
Got that delsus?
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deci was saying about merits still use sushi when meat can out praser it if u finsihed kanta merits
 
Delsus, stfu. Caedarva Mire is the only place meat can be remotely effective (or puks only, which is lol) for EXPing. Sushi really is superior. Even with 8 katana merits.

I quit using most of my evasion gear at level 70, but I never really had a huge evasion build before then. +20-30 evasion is really all you need which is really easy to get to.

If you know how to cast your shadows right (solo a bit and you'll learn damn quick unless you want your ass handed back to you) you can tank in tons of negative evasion gear and it won't matter as long as you're hasted. Constantly recasting shadows isn't good for your DD though. Find a good balance of evading/damaging the monsters and you should be good. Once you get to 70+ though, parties pick up a bit and you can lean more towards DD gear, as well as getting lots of good DD gear (fudos, o hat, suppanomimi, etc.)
 
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