Honestly....

[Tibris]

Normally, I'm a pretty calm go with the flow type of guy, but since the new expansion came out, I've had this same situation pop up.

Heres the deal: I'm looking for group waiting sometimes 10 min, sometimes 3hrs or more(depending on what time of day it is) someone sends me a tell asking if i want to party yada yada yada, party gets made then comes the all important question: where we going to party and does everyone have the staging point? Most of the time everyones answer is yes, but it only takes one person out of the party saying no to hold up the whole show.

Now, this is where I start to get aggitated. First off, if you're lfg in the new areas why the hell don't you have the staging points to begin with? Wouldn't it make sense to spend a little time at least getting the main exp ones(mamool ja, azouph isle, mount zhayolm) before you join or make an exp party?! Seriously, thats just plain selfish and lazy of someone not to have said staging point when you join or make an exp party.

I understand a few of the staging points are a pain to get to, but thats no excuse to put your flag up(or make a party, which is even worse) and then go oops I don't have that staging point. I mean wtf, when I say ok to an invite for exp party, I want to get exp not sit around waiting for whoever doesn't have the point to stumble(or die...) on the way there because someone said "hey I can lead you there, follow me" then proceeds to get said group lost or killed.:banghead3:

Guess my point is, if your going to exp in the new areas, how about take a little time, get some(or all) of the staging points, do some map quests and learn a little about the new areas before you pop your lfg flag up as soon as you step off the boat, you'll save yourself a lot of headaches and won't piss off the people in the party when your the only one without them./rant off

 

[Exthimious]

I'd have to agree with you on this one, but you also have to remember, it may be difficult for people that dont have a PC available to them to help them through this step. Trying to figure out how to do something on your own in this game is the biggest pain in the ass. Trust me, some guys and me were the first ones to unlock PUP. We ran around for 5 hours that night trying to figure out the entire thing.
Expecting somone to have all or some of the staging points is asking for a little much. I will agree with you that it is a pain in the ass waiting for them, and then watching them die, and have them try over again.
I just wouldnt get as angry about it.
But thats just me ^^

 

[Tibris]

As I stated above, I know some of the staging points(Ilrusi Atoll, Dvucca Isle mainly) aren't that easy to get to. My point was, it's selfish of people to join an exp party, everyone is ready to go but you because you dont have the staging point.

And of course when the expansion first came out, everyone was wandering around for hours, because no one had any idea where to go, but that was over a month ago. Theres tons of info and maps(ffxiatlas.com) to look up this stuff. I know not everyone has a pc at home, but I'm sure they can get access to a pc somwhere.

As for doing things on your own, I don't see how anyone could get to this point without having at least one friend to help them. The new areas are geared for higher level players and if you've gotten this far without being in a linkshell or having at least a few freinds to help you along the way, getting the staging points is probably the least of your worries:shok:

 

[Nasya]

i was able to solo every staging point... it isn't that hard >.> just had to go a round about way for some of them.

 

[mysticalone]

i for one didnt know staging points are a must to level in the new areas, in the first place ><. is this a requirement for 70+ parties? im 70 been doing marids.

 

[Halifirien]

I'm a dinosaur, since I only have one staging point unlocked so far (the one on Mount Zhayolm). It hasn't been a huge issue for me so far because I haven't partied much, but I think "selfish" is a reach. If it's that big of an issue, leave the party or ask the leader to kick the offender and find a suitable replacement.

I've been planning to start unlocking more stuff out there and start doing Assaults, but I just haven't gotten around to it. If you added up all the time I've spent in Al Zahbi and the new areas since the expansion hit it would probably add up to about ten hours.

I imagine the upcoming push to level Beastmaster again will goad me into taking care of all that stuff, since it looks like such a goldmine of xp it feels like cheating.

 

[Rhaddy]

cry more tibris!

 

[Bajaratt]

Kick them and get someone with the staging points. Not having the staging points is only hurting them, since they can't do the assaults for those areas either. There's guides on how to get to all of the staging points, so there's really no reason besides laziness to not at least TRY to get them.

 

[Mirewen]

>.< Tibbles. I can see how that would be annoying, luckily that isn't something I've encountered yet.

 

[Rappa]

If you KNOW you're going to be going to a new zone to XP and you KNOW which staging point(s) will be required for your pt, why is your pt leader inviting members without asking if they have said staging points? You only have your leader to blame.

 

[DarkMagnus]

In a few pts there were 1-2 memebers that didn't have a certain staging point. They just walked to the point , which didn't take long. have or not its not a big deal.

 

[Lavi]

If you KNOW you're going to be going to a new zone to XP and you KNOW which staging point(s) will be required for your pt, why is your pt leader inviting members without asking if they have said staging points? You only have your leader to blame.

Can't just blame a leader for that. It's been very difficult to find party members lately (these days you'll take what you can get) and usually we don't decide where to go until we leave because often times certain experience zones will be full by then, but it wasn't that way when the party was being formed. Granted, the leader should have a general idea as to where they will be experiencing, but often times members are too lazy to mention what access they do and do not have or the leader just assumes members have access. These days people automatically assume players have sky by 65-70, CoP expansion and possibly even limited CoP areas unlocked so it's not a huge stretch to expect that people have at least put some effort into the new ToA areas.

I think the member who doesn't say he/she doesn't have access is just as much to blame. The leader has a lot to worry about and the members should make anything known that might effect the party. If I am close to level, I don't have access to certain areas, missing key items, or anything, I make it very clear at the beginning of the party. I don't see why anyone else wouldn't do that, it's just common sense. If it effects the party, people will eventually find out whether you state it then or later.

 

[Rappa]

I disagree. It isn't my job to inform a pt leader of every single thing about me before he invites me. Now I'd normally put things like tnl in my search comment and sometimes something like "sky: O", but there isn't enough room in my search comment to list every single piece of info they could need to know.

If you are going to be a pt leader, you are accepting in advance that you are in charge of this group. If you are leader, it is your job to create a balanced pt and to determine where the group will go. Nothing drives me more insane than getting a pt invite and the leader says "Well, where can we go?" YOU should know that already, not me! And BEFORE you start building a pt, you should scan EVERY possible camp to figure out what's free. You should know before you even talk to me which camps are and aren't full.

After you invite me, you should keep scanning the zones to see if they fill up. If they do and you have to pick an alternate camp you weren't originally considering, you should make sure everyone you already invited can get there. If you wait until the pt is full to suddenly say "Oh, mamool camp's full now. Let's go to Caedarva Mire" and one of your members doesn't have the staging point, then you failed at your job as leader.

So to summarize what a leader does when creating a pt:
-Scans for camps first and foremost.
-Builds a balanced pt, insuring that all invited members can get to said camp.
-Continues to scan as he/she looks for new members, informing members of possible camp changes.
-Finishes building pt, makes sure everyone has whatever meds are needed and everyone is signet/sanctioned up, and leads the group to wherever camp is.

 

[Lavi]

I disagree. It isn't my job to inform a pt leader of every single thing about me before he invites me. Now I'd normally put things like tnl in my search comment and sometimes something like "sky: O", but there isn't enough room in my search comment to list every single piece of info they could need to know.

If you are going to be a pt leader, you are accepting in advance that you are in charge of this group. If you are leader, it is your job to create a balanced pt and to determine where the group will go. Nothing drives me more insane than getting a pt invite and the leader says "Well, where can we go?" YOU should know that already, not me! And BEFORE you start building a pt, you should scan EVERY possible camp to figure out what's free. You should know before you even talk to me which camps are and aren't full.

After you invite me, you should keep scanning the zones to see if they fill up. If they do and you have to pick an alternate camp you weren't originally considering, you should make sure everyone you already invited can get there. If you wait until the pt is full to suddenly say "Oh, mamool camp's full now. Let's go to Caedarva Mire" and one of your members doesn't have the staging point, then you failed at your job as leader.

So to summarize what a leader does when creating a pt:
-Scans for camps first and foremost.
-Builds a balanced pt, insuring that all invited members can get to said camp.
-Continues to scan as he/she looks for new members, informing members of possible camp changes.
-Finishes building pt, makes sure everyone has whatever meds are needed and everyone is signet/sanctioned up, and leads the group to wherever camp is.

Being party leader isn't easy which is why a majority of the time I do not do it. You are thrust with a lot of responsibility and it's just not fair. Everyone expects you to know where to camp, check the camp every 5 seconds to make sure it's empty, know a SC immediately, chose members to make the best of a SC, know a mobs weakness, know the exp camps, know everyone's tnl, know this and that and everything else. Do you honestly think one person can handle that while constantly sending tells to get members in the shortest amount of time? I don't. Heck, a lot of the times I have gone to form party people couldn't even be bothered to wait for members to join and immediately left. For some reason people expect parties to be full once they join and to have all party aspects immediately determined for them. Yes, people do have search comments to allow people to know facts about yourself so you might be chosen faster over other prospective party candidates, but that little text window is insufficient to know everything. They either ask you or you tell them. Which path is chosen is inconsequential as long as the party knows the information which will effect them. If you know something that can and will effect the party, you are as much to blame if not moreso for withholding it.

Do you have your to next level in your search comment? Why? So that people know when you are about to level and it doesn't effect exp. How is that any different from telling them any other fact that could and does effect the party's exp? It doesn't. It takes you two seconds to say "I don't have staging points" and the party can deside then whether to find a replacement or chose another exp area. If you have anything that might effect the party, you are obligated to tell people out of curtesy. The party leader is busy making sure several key parts are determined for the party, the least you can do is keep him/her informed about yourself.

 

[kaikyaku]

I imagine the upcoming push to level Beastmaster again will goad me into taking care of all that stuff, since it looks like such a goldmine of xp it feels like cheating.

Amen ta dat

Previously the lethal hazing process was to drudge it out in the Tree. The woodlands and surrounding areas is an icon for beastmaster drool.

But to the OP: I know it’s frustrating to have to wait and wait and wait for things to get together but why wasn’t the initiative taken. I don’t think there’s any real problem with asking a person if he can be replaced with someone who has the staging areas. Some players are just relaxed. Hopefully the relaxed player can understand s/he needs to step down if they are holdin things up. If it’s a stumbling block for them it’s easy enough to get it some other time… on their own time.

Sagging points will still be there… so will the xp parties.

 

[Rappa]

Being party leader isn't easy which is why a majority of the time I do not do it. You are thrust with a lot of responsibility and it's just not fair. Everyone expects you to know where to camp, check the camp every 5 seconds to make sure it's empty, know a SC immediately, chose members to make the best of a SC, know a mobs weakness, know the exp camps, know everyone's tnl, know this and that and everything else. Do you honestly think one person can handle that while constantly sending tells to get members in the shortest amount of time?

Yes. And if they can't, they shouldn't be a pt leader. It isn't about what is and isn't fair. If I'm too busy to handle it, I seek pt. If I make a pt, I do everything I said above so I don't waste my members' time.

If you're a mage and don't know a skillchain, you ask the first DD you invite what he can skillchain with for XX skillchain. If they don't know, it's your job to find a skillchain chart and look it up. If you invite two DDs that can't do a good skillchain (excluding cannon setups), you've gimped your pt's xp. It isn't the two DDs fault, it's yours.

 

[Pesmerga]

god forbid that ONE person wasnt seeking for exp and didnt plan on exping so they didnt have the stage point..happen to me though. i never seek and get invites. just havnt had the time to get points

 

[Tibris]

I realize when I join a party that more than likely I'll have to wait to some degree, whether its on more members, people getting gear, switching jobs etc, but to have to sit there for 30 min to an hour waiting for 1(or more) members to walk to the staging point is just ridiculous. Yes I know I have the option of leaving, but thats not really the point.

As I said before, when I join an "exp" party, I'm ready for exp, not to hold someones hand and drag them through a zone trying to get the staging point which they should have had before joining the exp party. Now, that doesn't mean I wouldn't try to help someone if they asked me when I'm not in the party. I just thinks its selfish to join an exp party then go "oh yeah I don't have that point, could you make everyone wait while you take me there".

As for the party leader making sure everyone has what they need, checks camps etc, how about when it's the leader that doesn't have the staging points? How is that right to invite people to a party then be the one holding everyone up? Now, if he had said something when he invited me like "hey, I don't have so and so staging point, would you mind waiting while my friend guides me and maybe someone else there?" at least I would have a heads up.

In the grand scheme of things, it may not seem like a big deal to some. I guess im just one of those people that come prepared and ready to roll when I get into a party. I just wanted to see if this had happend to anyone else and if it bugged them as much as it did me:banghead3:

 

[LadyKiKi]

In an ideal world, nothing is perfect.

 

[Lavi]

Yes. And if they can't, they shouldn't be a pt leader. It isn't about what is and isn't fair. If I'm too busy to handle it, I seek pt. If I make a pt, I do everything I said above so I don't waste my members' time.

If you're a mage and don't know a skillchain, you ask the first DD you invite what he can skillchain with for XX skillchain. If they don't know, it's your job to find a skillchain chart and look it up. If you invite two DDs that can't do a good skillchain (excluding cannon setups), you've gimped your pt's xp. It isn't the two DDs fault, it's yours.

I agree to your scenario of two DD's; however, it's flawed when comparing the two situation. The two DD's don't have a choice in who is and isn't invited, the leader makes that choice. When any member makes the choice to join a party, they are obligated to inform everyone if they do or do not have any item necessary to party. The leader has a lot of obligations and expecting him to hold the hand of 5 players is a large expectation. All you have to do is inform the party of what bad things might influence the party before you join. The leader isn't a mind reader. He can't possibly asking every possible question to make sure you are completely prepared to party. It's just not feasable. To be held responsible for an party member's shortcomings is just stupid. There are so many things to ask, so many things to have a party remember, it's impossible to make sure they have everything. Instead it should be up to a seeking player to make sure he/she has everything necessary.