How much credit card debt do you have?

[Kat]

Life insurance is a joke. If you are in good health, on the average people you would be better off investing the money. If you are in bad health...well you won't get insurance anyway. In our modern society of both men and women entering the work force, it is no longer needed in case of the males death as he is no longer the only bread earner.

I guess it comes down to how you were/are raised Rones. There is a big age difference between yourself and I. I was raised with the father figure always having a policy on them. So was Steve. Therefore we followed suit. It's just an added insurance, forgive the pun, of knowing your family will be taken care of in the event of death.

As far as investing the money, have you watched Cinderella Man lately? Investing can be a very scary thing indeed. Diversifying in my opinion is best.

 

[Rones]

Yes, by invest I mean diversly in many different forms (stocks, bonds, cds, some liquid account, etc). My parents use to have life insurance, then they realized they could get more money by just investing it and not bothering. Invest it smart and treat it as if you had spent it on the insurance (as in you don't have it and can't spend it on a tv). That will net you more in the long run than the life insurance gamble.

 

[Veovis]

Somewhere around like... $7,500-$8,500.

They gave me a gold mastercard! What did they expect!?

 

[Darkdante]

Ya. And at least nobody has to die for you to cash in either.

 

[Sculli]

Life insurance is a joke. If you are in good health, on the average people you would be better off investing the money. If you are in bad health...well you won't get insurance anyway.

I think that many people say they have a life insurance, but they don't actually mean a life or term life at all, they mean accidental death and dismemberment. Their life is insured in the event of accidental death, and thus to them it is a life insurance.

I pay like under 8 bucks a month for 450k accidental death, and next fiscal year I will top out on that plan at 500k (can only add 50k per year, to a max of 500k). Those 100 bucks per year are worth every penny.

I wouldn't get a real life insurance, but I know that some lenders make you buy one in order to get their home loans.

 

[Kat]

Actually, Bonds and CD's really suck these days. Especially Series EE bonds. CD's just don't pay out like they used to. Also, if you get in a pickle and have to cash them in, you lose on them big time.

If you really want to get more for you dollar, invest in real estate. You just cannot lose on that.

For example:

My friend Alice bought a piece of land (2 1/4 acres) about 7 years ago now in Oswego, Illinois for 78k. Her father had passed away and left herself, her sister and her brother a sum of money to be paid out over a 10 year period. She came to me and asked my advice on whether or not to buy this piece of land. At the time she didn't have the money to build on it. I told her she was nuts if she didn't buy it for that price. Sure enough, they started building up Oswego about 4 years ago. New subdivisions, etc. They finally got to where this piece of land was she owned and she had a decision to make. Sell the land, or now that she could feasibly build on it cuz there were gas lines, sewage, electricity, etc., build on it. She came to me yet again and asked my opinion. I told her to sell her house in Aurora, sell the land and build a home where she would be worry free for a very long time. She ended up selling the home she had lived in for 16 years that she had bought for a mere 25k, for 125k. She sold that land that she had bought 5 years previously at 78k for 250k. She built her dream house for 180k and still had a ton left to sock away.

Real estate is the best investment you can make in this day and age. There is no doubt in my mind on that.

Sorry again about the hijack everyone. Just some things to think about as you grow up. If you do have credit cards, just be careful. Your credit is the most important asset you will ever have. Don't waste it with credit card debt. It's just not worth it.

*Edit*
As far as the life insurance policies we have on Steve, they are truly term and whole life. The difference is, they are policy's where the initial payment, say Steve would've passed away the first year we had them, would've only paid out the initial sum of what they're worth. In the case of the 2 we have, they have a base payout plus the longer you have the policies the more you get.

Sorry Rones, but I truly disagree with you on the fact they aren't good to have. They don't cost all that much monthly, and it's nice to know that if something happened to Steve, I'd be provided for, and especially if something happened to both of us, Heather and the kids would be okay.

 

[Kat]

Sorry, moved this up above. Damn me and my PC+1's

 

[Rones]

They don't cost all that much monthly

No they don't cost that much, but add them in with every other silly insurance program we jump on, you will see it isn't so little anymore. If you think people actually get more out of these insurance programs than they put in, then explain how the insurance companies stay in business (or why they would even bother to exist). :wink:

 

[Kat]

1 word: Accidents.

That's where the money is.

For an example about Life insurance. You take the 350k base insurance policy with no interest. Divide that 350k by 20 years, then by 12 months. That comes out to 1,458. per year. We pay 240. per year to have the policy. That means when we took the policy out in 2001, even if he were still living in 2021 (which I hope he is), we've only paid 4,800. total over a 20 year period. I can't see where this is a bad thing.

 

[Arctyrael]

Some insurance is nice. Life insurance is truly for the case of an accident. Health insurance is good - but in my opinion racial profiling and medical exams should be required to help in cost assessment. Now before everyone jumps my ass for bringing race into it - I don't want to hear it. Race is a legitimate concern regarding health. Legislation should enact liability limitations for doctors. (With a due process for appealing cases)

However - Drug Insurance? Pullease! If it is a maintenance medication, insurances are not going to pay out more than they make - unless it is the most extreme of cases. If no one had drug coverage, you'd find medication on the whole to be about 40% - 80% less. (I worked in a pharmacy, I saw 'real' (mfg.) prices)

===

In all honesty though, I want to see smart individuals taking care of themselves. I would like to see the government ban all forms of insurance as it is robbery. Subsidize a method to allow citizens to look after themselves (much like socialism) OR make it legal for non-profit organizations to control insurance style businesses. Until profit is removed from the picture, the aim of most things medical will never be the patient. Auto insurance will never be reliable until companies drop profits.

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Conflicting sides I know. However, I'm open to see reform to the entire insurance business.

===

Now, as far as credit card debt is concerned. I have none. I do have student loans ;_;

 

[Kat]

Health insurance is a whole other can of worms I won't even open. Let's just say it's been a savior to myself and my family in some cases and in some it's been total hell. Also, if you're going to bring the color of ones skin into the assessment, then by God, you better be bringing in someones age. Sorry, but I do not agree with that one iota.

I will say though, when you are applying for a position in a company, make sure you check out the health, vision, dental plan and if you think the wage they are offering isn't sufficient add said plan in if the company is paying for it. You may be pleasantly surprised you're making a very nice salary after all.

When I had my operation back in 1999, just the operation alone was 60k. If I had to pay that out of my own pocket, firstly I could never have afforded it without the excellent insurance the company I worked for provided, and secondly I'd probably be dead right now because I couldn't afford it. Just another thing to ponder about.

Btw, what I paid for that 60k operation, because my company did have a good health insurance plan? A 100. deductible to my doctor (gynecologist) and the hospital was 100% covered.

 

[Sculli]

Until profit is removed from the picture, the aim of most things medical will never be the patient.

Germany has an excellent for-profit socialized health care system that allows for HMO-style and private health insurance companies (Germany also has limited per-incident liability). The patient does come first. My mother had a one sided mastectomy at age 56 (no radiation or chemo was necessary), and was sent to a recovery institution for 5 weeks where they would do physical and mental therapy to help women cope with organ loss of all kinds after cancer. She was not privately insured, and all costs were covered by the HMO-style thingie.

In general there is very little outpatient surgery in Germany, most all but the very simple surgeries will result in a multiple day stay at the hospital. Severe surgery will in most all cases be followed by multiple weeks in a sanatorium that is located at some sort of scenic place where all kinds of care is given to aid the healing.

U.S. health care is fucked up, and is probably the #1 reason why I don't think I am going to stay here forever, few more years and then it's back to the Old World for me!

 

[Kat]

U.S. health care is fucked up, ...

I agree Sculli, it is. But I'd rather it stay like it is, then get these damn politicians involved.

I'm still wondering to this day, where the hell all that Social Security money I've been paying in since I was 16 has gone? Where has the money gone that my parents have paid in since they were teenagers? Nothing pisses me off more than when the news talks about SS. That's when I'm screaming at the TV^^.

And, before anyone says it, I'll tell you now, yes I do vote. Again, that's another can of worms. Electoral college. OMG, I could go on and on and on and on ... lol.

 

[Darkdante]

You can thank the republicans and the Bush family for that.

Clinton Modeled his health plan after the model that we use here in Hawaii.

We don't have the kinds of problems you mainlanders do and continue to have.

Along with your nest egg, health insurance is and should be your number one priority for retriement planning in my opinion.

 

[Sculli]

I'm still wondering to this day, where the hell all that Social Security money I've been paying in since I was 16 has gone? Where has the money gone that my parents have paid in since they were teenagers?

No big mystery there. Those who pay into SS today are paying for those who receive SS today. You have been paying for those who were receiving while you were paying. That's all grand, except now there are less and less people paying in (working) and more and more drawing out (retirees). Part of the problem is that people simply live too long. When FDR came up with SS he didn't have in mind that people live to 85, 90, 95+. These days we are artificially prolonging life, and SS is broke in part because of that.

 

[Kat]

No big mystery there. Those who pay into SS today are paying for those who receive SS today. You have been paying for those who were receiving while you were paying. That's all grand, except now there are less and less people paying in (working) and more and more drawing out (retirees). Part of the problem is that people simply live too long. When FDR came up with SS he didn't have in mind that people live to 85, 90, 95+. These days we are artificially prolonging life, and SS is broke in part because of that.

Yah, I know what the media and government says the reason is. I just don't totally buy it. My personal belief is the government has had their hands in our SS cookie jar for a long time.

 

[Rones]

I can't believe all the insurance lovers here. :shok: Insurance companies make lots of money. How? Because people pay more in than they get out. Would you invest in a bank they paid out less than you paid in? Imagine a world without so much insurance. 1st, people would have more money by not buying insurance. 2nd, removeal of the insurance market would free up much educated labor to do something that is actually productive. Try too look at the macroeconomics view, the big picture.

Chances are by the time your husband reaches his upper years Kat, he will live beyond the coverage years for your policy. Then when he dies, you get no money, don't have the money you spent on the insurance, and don't have the money you could have earned with that money over those years.

 

[meeze]

FUCK GEICO.

Yup..

 

[Sculli]

Yah, I know what the media and government says the reason is. I just don't totally buy it. My personal belief is the government has had their hands in our SS cookie jar for a long time.

I don't know, it would take next to a miracle to keep something like that quiet, considering that hundreds if not thousands of people would have been in the know about it over the years.

Regardless, the SS system as such is flawed for societies in which retriees benefits outnumber current employee contributions. Then again, that's really not what SS was designed for, and the fact that it is still running and making payments is quite amazing.

Luckily I don't have to worry about it at all. I am exempt from SS and been paying in a couple retirement plans, one has defined benefits and the other one has defined contributions, plus the 401k. Though I "ran the numbers" and if I want to retire in the style I want to retire in, I really need to be saving more than that. My New Year's resolution is to make that happen, but so far I have been slacking.

 

[Sculli]

I can't believe all the insurance lovers here. :shok:

I do think that you unfairly lump all insurances together. There are useful one's (i.e. accidental death and dismemberment). Do insurance companies make profit? Sure. I am cool with that. Your employer makes profit off of you, yet you are still working for him. Some things are acceptable trade-offs while others are not. Some insurances provide a good value, others do not.