How much stat really beats out +skill or mods?

[Windy]

I've been playing too long to not know this but I've never had the luxury of +skill items or playing much melee so I am seriously curious about this.

For THF:
Just hit 33 (yay almost "done") and I am using Noct Brais right now but I have Republic Subligar. Ideally the Subligar for melee, Brais for Pulling/SATA? How much of a factor is DEX and AGI on SATA? For rings, 1 of each, 2 agi, or 2 dex?

For RDM/BLM:
Still 65 (ugh, hate leveling this) for enfeeb AND nuking(I MB well still) I can pile on about 32int and 30mnd at my current level with nearly full of the best gear macro'd around but no HIGH priced items (not spending much on Rdm until 70+) but for 70+ it comes down to... Wise gear has +Magic Accuracy... Moldavite/Uggalepih Pendant have MAB, Elemental/Enfeebling Torque/Earrings.. How much Int/Mnd compares to Magic Acc/MAB/Skill and each to eachother?

And semi-related. None of my jobs aside Thf and Sam use ranged and no one ever answered me before... When I pull out my bow/crossbow/chakram... what stats influence what? >< I had 80% R.Acc in Jungle. I have like 15% now in Garlaige :/ I gotta gear this different, Acid Bolts are an incredible asset.

Thanks to anyone who is willing to take a moment to educate myself and others who may have similar questions.

 

[Reishu]

As far as general things on RDM go, it -really- depends on what spell you're casting.

Let's start with general enfeebs. Generally, you want them to stick, because the potency is constant (like with Gravity or Bind). Exceptions are Slow, Blind, and Paralyze, where you want all the potency you can get out of the spell.

a little Magic Accuracy mixed in with the Enfeebling Magic seems to do a lot for landing the spell consistently. I haven't done extensive testing in this area though.

Nuking further complicates things: there's lots of different levels of mobs, and there's lots of reasons they can resist more.

Let's start with a very high level mob, such as in Dynamis or Gods/HNMs. Sometimes RDMs will be asked to nuke.

You'll want all the consistent numbers you can get. That means lots of Elemental Magic+ gear you can reasonably afford. a little Magic Accuracy helps you get consistent numbers, which is something I almost never see a BLM get, but then again they don't get a good selection in gear with it either. Magic Attack Bonus I believe gives a % increase to the amount of damage done. (correct me if i'm wrong)

As far as lower level mobs go (EM and lower, which RDM can reasonably solo), you'll want INT and Magic Attack bonus over Elemental Magic+ gear, since you don't need the Elemental Magic+ gear so much because you won't resist.

Now one last general category: enhancing magic. Some spells get much more of a boost from enhancing magic than others.

Stoneskin: Enhancing Magic over MND.
Protect/Shell/Bar-spells: Enhancing Magic over MND.
Spikes spells: Enhancing Magic over INT.
En-spells: Enhancing Magic (over INT?) <~ i believe this is constant based on elemental strength vs. mob.
Haste/Refresh: Fast Cast, since these get no bonuses from any other gear.

 

[Blabj]

For your RDM set up I'd aggree with Reishu in that magic acc. and enfeebling gear is your best bet for enfeebling spells, along with the correct elemental stave macro'd in for an extra 15% (if you're using HQ) chance of sticking the enfeeble. I know once my RDM dinged 51 macroing in my Ice stave really helped stick alot of enfeebles.

For your nukes I'd say you'll want a reasonable amount of Elemental gear (if you're not being resisted greatly on your current set up then just keep using that) and just pile on the INT and MAB. When you get into your level 70's on RDM, your best gear for nuking in will be an Errant Hpl. and a Yigit Gomlek (I consider the gomlek to being the Red Mage version of an Igqira weskit).

MAB is considerably more useful than INT, and depending on what spells you're casting 1 MAB = 2 INT (Tier IV) or it can be even greater on lower tiered spells. However RDM doesn't get an amazing amount of MAB gear (Since theres not alot of it out there generally) but you'll be looking to use a Moldavite earring, Yigit Gomlek, Yigit Crackows and perhaps Zenith Mitts. You'll see a significant increase in nukes from standard INT setups in those areas of equips (eg: Phantom earring, Errant hpl., Wise Pigaches and Errant Cuffs) but of course the MAB gear is harder to obtain (dare I say impossible without a gods LS for your Zenith Mitts.)

I'm looking at the oportunitys RDM has for nuking gear also and it seems they're not that limited, infact if I was going for INT I could probably manage more INT on my RDM than BLM at level 75, and in some videos I've seen avesta (who's gear is most probably the be all and end all of mage gear) hit 850+ with Tier III magic, which is astonishing for a red mage... I'm guessing the sky's the limit, aswell as your wallet.

 

[Mornlithe]

As far as general things on RDM go, it -really- depends on what spell you're casting.

Let's start with general enfeebs. Generally, you want them to stick, because the potency is constant (like with Gravity or Bind). Exceptions are Slow, Blind, and Paralyze, where you want all the potency you can get out of the spell.

a little Magic Accuracy mixed in with the Enfeebling Magic seems to do a lot for landing the spell consistently. I haven't done extensive testing in this area though.

Nuking further complicates things: there's lots of different levels of mobs, and there's lots of reasons they can resist more.

Let's start with a very high level mob, such as in Dynamis or Gods/HNMs. Sometimes RDMs will be asked to nuke.

You'll want all the consistent numbers you can get. That means lots of Elemental Magic+ gear you can reasonably afford. a little Magic Accuracy helps you get consistent numbers, which is something I almost never see a BLM get, but then again they don't get a good selection in gear with it either. Magic Attack Bonus I believe gives a % increase to the amount of damage done. (correct me if i'm wrong)

As far as lower level mobs go (EM and lower, which RDM can reasonably solo), you'll want INT and Magic Attack bonus over Elemental Magic+ gear, since you don't need the Elemental Magic+ gear so much because you won't resist.

Now one last general category: enhancing magic. Some spells get much more of a boost from enhancing magic than others.

Stoneskin: Enhancing Magic over MND.
Protect/Shell/Bar-spells: Enhancing Magic over MND.
Spikes spells: Enhancing Magic over INT.
En-spells: Enhancing Magic (over INT?) <~ i believe this is constant based on elemental strength vs. mob.
Haste/Refresh: Fast Cast, since these get no bonuses from any other gear.

En-spells, phalanx, bar-spells are purely enhancing skill based. stoneskin is partial skill/mnd. caps out at ~350 damage absorbed.

addition: old thread i found longtime ago on my old char (also rdm) when i was still learning the job: all about enfeebs and potency/accuracy

 

[Khajit]

As far as thf goes until anemit mantle its prettymuch a given to never sacrifices dex or agi for atk.
anemit vs whatever backpeice is usually a question of giving up 2 dex max if you got the rank or 1 agi for 10 atk.
generally choose dex over agi to boost since while dex and agi are modifiers for sata dex is a mod for all thf dagger ws you will stack with it.
30% for viperbite I tink so 3 dex is almost the same boost as 4 agi.

AGIinfluences raac and raatk but skilling marksmanship will improve your accuracy the most. just go out into the jungle and solo some mandy with bloody bolts until it stops skilling up.
If you get more than 100tp a minute that means you can afford (if you wanna go macro swap crazy) to macro in raac gear for each shot and swap back to tp gear ect.
You can also just spam shots once you get 100tp while waiting for an sc partner to get ready.

 

[Ewok]

You'll want all the consistent numbers you can get. That means lots of Elemental Magic+ gear you can reasonably afford. a little Magic Accuracy helps you get consistent numbers, which is something I almost never see a BLM get, but then again they don't get a good selection in gear with it either. Magic Attack Bonus I believe gives a % increase to the amount of damage done. (correct me if i'm wrong)

Wow, what Blm's have you partied with? lol. I think I got 1/2 nukes maybe 1/20-30 times when I was exping. Elemental Magic+ helped a ton with my acc., as well as INT+. As far as EM+ gear, we get a great selection, think at one point I was at +35? Can't remember..... Oh and Melon Pies +1 ftw ^^

 

[Billy]

Wow, what Blm's have you partied with? lol. I think I got 1/2 nukes maybe 1/20-30 times when I was exping. Elemental Magic+ helped a ton with my acc., as well as INT+. As far as EM+ gear, we get a great selection, think at one point I was at +35? Can't remember..... Oh and Melon Pies +1 ftw ^^

I think she meant that BLMs don't get magic accuracy+ gear?


Regarding your question about rings, I'd just go DEX on both slots (I used Rajas/Deft ring). You can compensate for AGI by swapping Genin Earring (AGI+4) for SATA if you are subbing NIN (which gives you more AGI) or just get the Drone Earrings when you hit 35.

To help land your bolts when you pull, you can macro the r.acc+acc- rings for added accuracy, you get the +5r.acc rings at lv35 too i think. Just don't forget to swap your regular rings back or you won't be hitting the mob when you melee lol.

 

[Lavi]

As far as thf goes until anemit mantle its prettymuch a given to never sacrifices dex or agi for atk.
anemit vs whatever backpeice is usually a question of giving up 2 dex max if you got the rank or 1 agi for 10 atk.
generally choose dex over agi to boost since while dex and agi are modifiers for sata dex is a mod for all thf dagger ws you will stack with it.
30% for viperbite I tink so 3 dex is almost the same boost as 4 agi.

AGIinfluences raac and raatk but skilling marksmanship will improve your accuracy the most. just go out into the jungle and solo some mandy with bloody bolts until it stops skilling up.
If you get more than 100tp a minute that means you can afford (if you wanna go macro swap crazy) to macro in raac gear for each shot and swap back to tp gear ect.
You can also just spam shots once you get 100tp while waiting for an sc partner to get ready.

Just to go along with this:

Physical WS Damage Calculation:
WD: Base damage of your WS
D: Base damage of your weapon (e.g., Espadon = 43)
fSTR: difference between your STR and target's VIT
WSC: Secondary attribute like STR_30 (30% of your STR).
fTP: Multiplier (Please see chart below).
PDIF: (your ATK/target’s DEF)

WSC = integer(any secondary attributes) x @

Level @
Lv75... 0.83
Lv74... 0.83
Lv73... 0.84
Lv72... 0.84
Lv67... 0.86 or 0.87 (perhaps 0.87)
Lv60... 0.90 or 0.91 (perhaps 0.90)
Lv40... 0.94
Lv37... 0.94 -- 0.99
Lv31... 0.94 - 0.99

WD = (D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP

Sneak Attack with THF main
WD = (D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP + DEX + AGI

Actual Damage of WS is then calculated in this way.
Damage = WD * PDIF = ((D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP) * PDIF

Note: Above is provided by Mai Ikari in WS Data and more information in the post about modifiers and other various effects on WS.

You'll notice DEX and AGI have a direct impact on SATA weapon skills and like Khajit said, most Dagger WS use DEX as a secondary modifier so you are better getting DEX if you can for that particular slot. For my thief, I have only two sets of gear changes (9 pieces total changed), one for normal melee and the other for SATA. My SATA consists of all my DEX and AGI equipment versus my melee equipment which is all acc, att, and STR with more importance on acc than attack or STR (You want that 100TP in 60 sec if possible). Again, if you get 100TP and you can't SC because of a partner or saving TP for next mob, try getting a couple of ranged attacks in. When I first started leveling thief a year ago, I was 50 before the RNG nerf and capping marksmanship (I didn't use Acid bolts at first so I was a very gimped when I first used them) was easy even after being so undercapped. Now it's literally a miracle to hit and get a skill up. I find that if I can't land a single acid bolt on an IT mob where I have no acc problems and I level in that same party, my ranged accuracy increases dramitcally just by a single level.

Edit: At your level, there is very little in the way of +acc, I believe just the level 15 +3 acc gloves and that is about it. You'll probably want to get +att and STR in it's place and whatever spaces are left, get DEX if possible for the slight accuracy it provides. There are some armors with effects inside/outside nations control and personally, I hate anything that may give me a stat boost but I cannot depend on it versus an armor that gives me a guaranteed stat boost. Waste of a spot if I am going want another armor for when that particular armor is useless. There are certain exceptions when that armor is the only piece with +stats or the stats are very very good which very few are.

 

[Windy]

Thank you to all replies~ I just hate leveling without doing the best I can do, even if it's only for 4 more levels lol. I currently run with +17dex +7agi (without food) +6 attack and +3 accuracy.. I rarely miss in melee, 80%+ acc usually unless Beetle TP's then it drops a bit.. and for ranged I macro in Noct Doublet/Gloves +1's and hope. With food I have +22dex +7agi and of course the +15% acc/r.racc and STILL I notice some mobs I -cannot- land a shot on, others every bolt lands @.@ My main concern was whether to use my +5atk or +2dex legs for SATA/SATA WS. Nothing like having 2 /nin in the PT to be able to SATA directly after pull then a few seconds later for a quick 600hp off the mob.

 

[Reishu]

You never really stop learning a job better

Thanks for the linkie Mornlithe.

And to Ewok, I do exp with good blms, i just don't look at their numbers anymore, I'm comparing it to exp in Bibiki on dhalmels, where I did try to keep up to par with blms on damage.

980 MB in exp at that level is good for a RDM, since then I stopped trying to outdo myself lol.

 

[Tagrineth]

On thief, attack+ while meleeing, DEX+ and AGI+ for SATA.

If you have a choice between DEX and AGI, pick DEX. For SATA (combined abilities), DEX and AGI theoretically have the same effect. No reason to balance them out; if you CAN wear DEX, use it! Your secondary WS modifiers will thank you for it. <_<

 

[Lavi]

Thank you to all replies~ I just hate leveling without doing the best I can do, even if it's only for 4 more levels lol. I currently run with +17dex +7agi (without food) +6 attack and +3 accuracy.. I rarely miss in melee, 80%+ acc usually unless Beetle TP's then it drops a bit.. and for ranged I macro in Noct Doublet/Gloves +1's and hope. With food I have +22dex +7agi and of course the +15% acc/r.racc and STILL I notice some mobs I -cannot- land a shot on, others every bolt lands @.@ My main concern was whether to use my +5atk or +2dex legs for SATA/SATA WS. Nothing like having 2 /nin in the PT to be able to SATA directly after pull then a few seconds later for a quick 600hp off the mob.

I'd personally go for the +2DEX. I also forgot to mention about weapons. There are a lot of good daggers around that level with +acc or att. I went for the highest base damage and +acc. on main hand and off hand, I tried archer's knife for the huge +r.acc boost to help on marksmanship even though you can off hand better knifes for faster TP, more damage and better stats such as acc, att, and AGI. It's all about personal preference, but to me, if the Archer's knife help me land a hit, it means a huge boost in DoT for me and on SATA WS too which is more than any off handed stats can do.

 

[Khajit]

until lv 60 ATK on a sataws is worthless for thf. Viperbite doubles your current ATK during the ws making it mow past any vit and def the moster has.

Since atk only is used to determine how much of your maximum damage can get past the defense instead of increasing your max damage it's kinda not needed when yours has already been doubled.