I have a PL....

[jamal]

Which ever one didn't suck at their job. If the top WAR was, for the sake of argument, Antdog, and the bottom one was Jamal, I'd take Jamal with no merits over Antdog with full merits.

I haven't seriously used a seacom to seek for 3 years...but mine would be closer to the bottom one. There's not enough room in the Seacom to do my gear or merits any justice lol.

 

[beeznuts]

The main goal for me in this game in xp parties is to gain as much xp as I can, as quickly as I can. Most ppl will agree to this. Having "outside assistance" lets you maximize xp/per hour as opposed without one. Simple as that. You can still do your job and learn it with a PL. Every situation is different. A powerleveler is like having an Empress Band. It's an enhancment. Makes things better.

Maximize EXP for that session, yes. However, this is terribly shortsighted, as it minimizes the amount of learning done, and therefore EXP in the long term. Most people will agree with it, because many people are also equally shortsighted, or overly confident in their own ability.

Furthermore, having an empress band merely increases the amount of EXP per kill. It does not correct mistakes made by the party. Not to mention the fact that many people again agree that an Empress Band also pushes poor players through the levelling treadmill too quickly, resulting in problems.

That may be true, but if you link a mob and you realize that mistake, you will try not to do that again right? The PL will make sure you don't die and hopefully you learn to not do that again. Whereas if there isn't one (pl) you will waste time recovering from weakness status. Remeber the goal of xp pts? Maximum xp/time.

Except it takes the focus away from these things, in the case of newer players, or again, those who are overconfident or slow learners, it may in fact gloss over the mistakes made completely.

The secondary goal of EXP parties is to learn the job you are playing inside and out, both for other jobs you EXP, and for endgame activity. Cutting the effectiveness of this may be effective in the short term, but in the long term, it, as I've said, breeds stupidity.

Not saying there isn't anything to not learn. To me, at this point in the game I just want to get some jobs to where I want them to be and concentrate on end-game stuff. But lets face it Garvin, you must have had a PL in your pt once in ur time in this game. Has it been a good and effective pt? Just my question to you.

PLs are effective at getting EXP. I've not said, and will not say that they aren't. The long-term effects, however, are very bad, and they get worse the higher the level.

 

[Tristam Green]

Get the smores and campfire ready, I'm all ears

[insert random comment about jamal's avatar, smores, and melted chocolate]

:thumbsup:

 

[Chiimister]

Get the smores and campfire ready, I'm all ears

Hmmmm....
I have a screenshot about someone saying about AV but its in German.
That guy was talking in LS about the hardest mob in the game... he said that Tiamat is the hardest because he is lvl 85ish and I asked about AV. He first didnt know what AV is and then said: no one defeated AV yet because he only drops some useless rings and no one wanna fight him.

 

[Sneakypants]

btw, i think powerleveling is the reason many plds don't know to build hate by cure-bombing those who pull hate from them

There's not knowing how to build hate by curing, and simply not being able to cure yourself or others that need curing.

 

[Bluefrost]

There's not knowing how to build hate by curing, and simply not being able to cure yourself or others that need curing.

Love it when Paladins cure bomb themselves trying to get hate off another player.

 

[Sneakypants]

I love it when you go to cure someone that pulled hate and the PL gets a cure in there just before you do, negating your plan to maintain hate and wasting MP.

 

[K. Ishitar]

Love it when Paladins cure bomb themselves trying to get hate off another player.

a reason I don't like many plds...it's like they're blind to other people and when another person has hate they think a simply think a cure III on themselves at 85-90% will save them... instead of healing the person or people with hate.

It's also fun when the mainhealer plants a cure4 and ends up tanking=D

/sarcasm

 

[Lavi]

Jamal already kind of covered this line of thinking, but I'll address it from another vein. Good hate control doesn't exist at low levels. Ninja flat out sucks before Utsusemi: Ni. Don't act like you're gaining really valuable experience when you have almost nothing to do your job properly. Most job-defining abilities/spells come in the 30's; before then you're no where close to that level of effectiveness. If you can blaze through those shit levels(especially 1-10, where you're not even partying) and get to a point where you can actually do your job properly all because of a PL, good for you.

As far as skills go, it's not like you can't get them a little later and you're also not going to be power leveled your entire career. Even if you're a tank, you're going to be trying to hold hate as long as you can until the PL pulls hate; and they don't even do that on a lot of fights. That really only pertains to actual skills in the game, in regards to learning how to play, this game is not remotely difficult to learn. As long as your head isn't up your ass and you can pay attention, you can do any job in the game better than at least half the people out there(who cannot do one or the other, sometimes both).

It is personal arrogance to try to deny a group a power level just because you personally don't like it. If you're against it, leave, but don't fuck over 5 other people just because you don't like power levels. Personally, I usually enjoy having a power level at low levels. I've leveled more than enough jobs to know what I'm doing and I have better things to do than to get shitty exp. A power leveler gets me through those crappy low levels faster, with much less hassle and expense on my part; I don't see any problem with it.

There's also nothing stopping a group from being power leveled and using strategy at the same time. Maybe you've only partied with brain dead idiots when you've been PL'd, but I've done skillchains + MB, had the tank voking the whole time, and had the blm's play intelligently all while under the watchful guidance of a 75 whm.


He's either a bot, or he's just retarded, a PL has nothing to do with that.

Bolded part in reference to a RDM spamming only protect and resting with a PL: Probably just skilling up enhancing since they don't really need to do much else.

You're correct that everything needed to play end game requires a lot of tools post-30 to perform your job; however, there are many tools and tips to be learned pre-30. While, those 30 levels are insignificant when compared to the experience required for 31 to 75, it's still hard to reteach an idiot who learned bad party dynamics. Not to mention, there are quite a few things one should learn before even getting to those later levels that compounded from earlier levels.

You're also correct if you're suggesting that someone who knows how to play the job can do decently well with a PL until mid-levels without being too unskilled, but there are too many people who are not like that. There are too many people who cannot even perform their current 75 job to at least a reasonable extent, let alone surpass the average. Yet you can expect those people to take a PL and play a new job with no experience actually performing that required party role at a semi-decent level?

 

[Tristam Green]

There's not knowing how to build hate by curing, and simply not being able to cure yourself or others that need curing.

Yup, irritates me to see any paladin sitting at 80-90% MP when I'm tapped entirely (as a Dark Knight, as a Tarutaru) and both my Drains and Stun are down entirely (I'm aware that Stun generates more hate, but at the very least, it's slowing the friggin' mob down from wailing on me).

 

[Bajaratt]

Bolded part in reference to a RDM spamming only protect and resting with a PL: Probably just skilling up enhancing since they don't really need to do much else.

He could be useful and toss out some nukes then. It wouldn't do much damage, but it'd do more than spamming protect.

You're correct that everything needed to play end game requires a lot of tools post-30 to perform your job; however, there are many tools and tips to be learned pre-30. While, those 30 levels are insignificant when compared to the experience required for 31 to 75, it's still hard to reteach an idiot who learned bad party dynamics. Not to mention, there are quite a few things one should learn before even getting to those later levels that compounded from earlier levels.

Unless they've been power leveled their entire FFXI career, they're going to have been in some parties and picked something up. Even with a PL, unless that PL is dedicated to making sure they're the only one tanking and healing, you're going to have experience with party dynamics.

There's not a whole lot of basics you'd have to learn that you wouldn't get use at 30 anyways. Tanks still provoke, whm's still cure, melee still engage and WS, blm's still nuke/MB. You might not have as much practice, but it's not even remotely difficult to pick it up. I picked up how to play most other jobs just by watching other people play them; and while I might not be the norm, anyone should be able to grasp the basics of a job after a while.

You're also correct if you're suggesting that someone who knows how to play the job can do decently well with a PL until mid-levels without being too unskilled, but there are too many people who are not like that. There are too many people who cannot even perform their current 75 job to at least a reasonable extent, let alone surpass the average. Yet you can expect those people to take a PL and play a new job with no experience actually performing that required party role at a semi-decent level?

And I don't expect them to. If they're dumb enough to not know what they're doing by level 40, and especially if they're dumb enough to not know by 75; they're beyond help.

 

[Knightblade]

If I ever seek for merits on my MNK or SAM (which I never do, because even if I'm going to merit, I usually gather well geared friends so I don't waste time), I just put my seacom as:

MNK75/NIN37:
@merits
<Insert some comment here about preferences> (ie: BRD&RDM or don't bother)

I never put "4/4 crit, 5/5 str, 8/8 h2h, 5/5 kick attacks, 5/5 counter" etc in my seacom, since it usually doesn't matter that much. Besides, I never merit anymore, lol.

 

[Knightblade]

Here's an example:

WAR75/NIN37:
str merits: 5/5 axe merits: 5/5
6/6 Runic Portals
{Please invite me.}

or

WAR75/NIN37:
xp/merits {Can I have it?}

Which would you choose to party with?

If I ever seek for merits on my MNK or SAM (which I never do, because even if I'm going to merit, I usually gather well geared friends so I don't waste time), I just put my seacom as:

MNK75/NIN37:
@merits
<Insert some comment here about preferences> (ie: BRD&RDM or don't bother)

I never put "4/4 crit, 5/5 str, 8/8 h2h, 5/5 kick attacks, 5/5 counter" etc in my seacom, since it usually doesn't matter that much. Besides, I never merit anymore, lol.

Fixed.

 

[Euphacent]

I like power levels at lower levels.

A lot of you are talking about how it makes a lot of incompetent new players, but there really aren't that many new players in this game. I'd say most people have a decent grasp of how well game mechanics work, and I would rather just blow through my levels instead of wading through them while the tank or whoever else is there learns how to play the game.

 

[Lavi]

He could be useful and toss out some nukes then. It wouldn't do much damage, but it'd do more than spamming protect.


Unless they've been power leveled their entire FFXI career, they're going to have been in some parties and picked something up. Even with a PL, unless that PL is dedicated to making sure they're the only one tanking and healing, you're going to have experience with party dynamics.

There's not a whole lot of basics you'd have to learn that you wouldn't get use at 30 anyways. Tanks still provoke, whm's still cure, melee still engage and WS, blm's still nuke/MB. You might not have as much practice, but it's not even remotely difficult to pick it up. I picked up how to play most other jobs just by watching other people play them; and while I might not be the norm, anyone should be able to grasp the basics of a job after a while.


And I don't expect them to. If they're dumb enough to not know what they're doing by level 40, and especially if they're dumb enough to not know by 75; they're beyond help.

I wasn't justifying the RDM, just taking a guess and suggesting it's not a bot, just some random noob skilling up.

I still stand by my statement. I shouldn't have to explain party mechanics to some level 40 noob because some lazy asses wanted a PL and refused or never had the chance to learn anything about their jobs. You expect them to learn how? By watching someone else do it? Because someone else told them how? BS. All you're doing is delaying the learning process, putting it off on someone else who by the time they get to them, those noobs are already expected to know everything. Most people are going to be very short by that time too and it's only going to get worse. I and I bet many others, have patience for dunes noobs because we expect that type of thing, but we're in ToA experience and you're still that dumb, I don't think many will be very courteous at that point.

 

[toqabowl]

I liked having a PL around at lower lvls, that just meant i can tank and voke whenever as pup/war (lvls20-35) rofl

 

[Bajaratt]

I still stand by my statement. I shouldn't have to explain party mechanics to some level 40 noob because some lazy asses wanted a PL and refused or never had the chance to learn anything about their jobs. You expect them to learn how? By watching someone else do it? Because someone else told them how? BS. All you're doing is delaying the learning process, putting it off on someone else who by the time they get to them, those noobs are already expected to know everything. Most people are going to be very short by that time too and it's only going to get worse. I and I bet many others, have patience for dunes noobs because we expect that type of thing, but we're in ToA experience and you're still that dumb, I don't think many will be very courteous at that point.

Yes, I'm delaying the learning process, by skipping the levels where they're not learning anything because they can't do their jobs properly anyways. Is power leveling people from 1-10 a bad thing now too because we're preventing delaying them from learning how to operate in a party?

If they don't know party mechanics by 40, it's not because of a PL, it's because they're an idiot. A power level does not completely remove your ability to learn how to play your job; if it's done right it you hardly even notice the PL in the first place. They're also not going to have a PL for every single party they're in, so even if a PL did prevent you from learning everything, you'd still have some non-PL'd party experience. Stop acting like I'm insta-leveling them to 40 without them ever playing the game or I'm just leveling the job for them and their party with you is the first time they've ever played that job. If they don't learn anything by that point, then they're too stupid to have learned something by not being power leveled.

 

[shmedly]

I don't seek on a job from 1-25. I PL myself with my second char. At 25 I start to put my flag up. I PL myself until I get a pt invite. If I have a nin tank 33+ I might bring my whm along to haste them and for emergency cures. My PL is only 54 atm so once I get around 33ish the mobs start to be EP's so I have to hold hate off him. If I have to, I will PL myself all the way to 40(where I take all my subjobs too) just to be done with the sub.

If by chance I do PL a pt on my main, I damn well expect the healer to do their job, the tank better tank, and the DD's better watch their shit. Cure 1, Cure 2, and the occasional Cure 3 if things get messy, which they usually don't. Usually the only time I have ever PL'd is in the dunes, qufim, and a little into the jungle when the pt had to go to a shit goblin infested camp. Anywhere past there and I'm not doing it.

Peace,
Shmed

 

[Bajaratt]

If by chance I do PL a pt on my main, I damn well expect the healer to do their job, the tank better tank, and the DD's better watch their shit. Cure 1, Cure 2, and the occasional Cure 3 if things get messy, which they usually don't. Usually the only time I have ever PL'd is in the dunes, qufim, and a little into the jungle when the pt had to go to a shit goblin infested camp. Anywhere past there and I'm not doing it.

Peace,
Shmed

That's how a PL is supposed to work. They're not supposed to remove two key jobs from a party, but only to help with the load of curing and to reduce downtime.

 

[Bajaratt]

Also, a bard power leveler is insane at lower levels. Invite a bard, have them sing minuet and madrigal, then they disband until the songs wear. If you have time, they can do a ballad 2 for the mages before you disband. Then, you have a super party that is still learning all of the mechanics of a party, only they don't suck because they're low level.