I have to Axe you a question

[Lecan]

Alright.. so, I'm having a debate with a friend of mine (Langly to be specific). Honestly, we're at sort of a stalemate, so I thought I'd ask you guys.

Right now I've come into a small amount of money, enough to really properly gear myself for quite a while with some very good gear. I've obtained most of what I aimed to get, but I'm getting sick of this tungi. I need something with a bit more oomph to it.

So, my question is, which axe?

Wrath Tabar:

Damage: 45 Delay: 316 Damage Per Second (DPS): 8.54
TP Per Hit: 8.3%

• Strength +7
• Dexterity -1
• Vitality -1
• Agility -1
• Intelligence -1
• Mind -1
• Charisma -1

Or Acha D'armas:

Damage: 46 Delay: 288 Damage Per Second (DPS): 9.58
TP Per Hit: 7.6%

• Strength +2
• Dexterity +1
• Vitality -3
• Agility -2

Also, I'd like you to explain the reasoning behind it if you can. If for nothing else than to spurn intelligent conversation at this ungodly hour in the morning.

 

[Maguss]

/NIN all the way!

But if I had to choose, I'd choose Wrath. But I'm not a WAR or anything, so I wouldn't know.

 

[Lenneth]

Can't say no that that ultra secks...

 

[Sphene]

After looking at both and pro and conning
if you have to choose only one
go with the Tabar.
the massive str + will make those hits really count, I know the -'s
on it seem like a lot but it litteraly is only one point and the +to str would
be worth it from what I know about DDs
However, if you do not have to pick one and can afford it, go
for teh Ultra Secks! also if you buy both and find one doesnt suit
your taste and style of play you can simply sell it.

 

[Bigboy]

Isn't Rampage heavily affected by STR? I don't know the %s on that particular WS, but that STR may really make a huge difference.

 

[Lecan]

That's the great thing about this Sphene. Wrath Tabar is roughtly 500k on the AH. I could camp it but that takes a LOT of people and coordination to do. However, Acha is very easily camped so it is free.

I posted this to get opinions on what the esteemed members of QCDN thought would be the better use of my time. Going with the Wrath, Camping Acha, or getting both and leveling my NIN sub lol.

 

[Lecan]

Isn't Rampage heavily affected by STR? I don't know the %s on that particular WS, but that STR may really make a huge difference.

I belive it's 30% STR.

 

[Bigboy]

I belive it's 30% STR.

Wrath Tabar for sure then. Unless you're gonna go /NIN

 

[Olrox]

I don't play BST, but I am a 75 WAR/NIN. Now it all depends on what other pieces of equipment you can afford with this newly acquired money. The Accha D' poop is ra/ex so it is free, and since WAR's cannot equip the Wrath I don't know the current pricing on it. Rampage IS 30% STR so that is definitely a deciding factor right there.

Personally if I could equip the Wrath, I would have owned it last year, I could have the Acha D'poop but frankly I think it sucks for the VIT -3. I would think since you are a BST, that you might take a few hits, and if you did you would want a weapon that didn't take off so much VIT. The Wrath is only -1 to each other stat, and -1 is relatively nothing.

On the other hand if you have enough Gil, save for a woodville, that's better than both.

I would never use the Acha, I use a Reserve Cptn pick in my off hand, until my stuff sells then I'll have a juggernaut =) But if I could.. I would 100% have that wrath right now!

EDIT: Whoa, just noticed you said Wrath is 500k... Buy it now!! you buy now toy toy toy!!!!

 

[Lecan]

For those wondering, I managed to make a quick million. Not a lot to most of you, but enough to get me the thick set I've been wanting and a celata (meaning I now have +38 Acc with a WAR sub, and more attack).

Also, I'm only level 68, so RCP, Woodsvilles, and Maneater are sort of out of reach.

 

[Mishaela]

I'd go with the Acha d'armas, mainly because it has much better DoT and the difference between 1dmg and 5str isn't terribly noticable. Also, regarding the -2vit/-3agi, well, no one'll notice that unless they're grabbing hate or something, and that's a different problem altogether...

*edit* Wrath Tabar would be better offhand, but only in this case because it'd give good str for the mainhand weapon's WS (Woodville/Wrath combo comes to mind). Acha is purely better for DoT either way though.

 

[Lecan]

Hmm... perhaps I should have put a disclaimer in the OP:

Somepage's DoT stats for weapons don't take into effect any of the bonuses on the weapons. So the STR+7 on the Wrath Tabar and STR+3 and DEX+2 on the Acha are not counted towards their DoT (Just base damage vs. Delay).

 

[hellstorm]

Acha d'armas is the axe from kufal tunnel right if im not mistaken it has a hidden affect that is sweet

 

[Tagrineth]

The STR function in the damage formula takes about 3-4 STR to raise the "base damage" of your weapon by 1.

So, for all intents and purposes, you can pretend that they have the same DMG: rating and STR+.

Regardless of the strength of each Rampage by the weapons, what it really comes down to, I think, is the half second difference in Delay. Acha d'Armas should on average outperform the Wrath Tabar significantly because it hits quite a bit faster. Even barring the (insignificantly) stronger Rampages with the Wrath Tabar, you're building TP and hitting much faster with the Acha.

People overplay the significance of +STR because they aren't well informed about the way damage is calculated.

Edit; this was posted while I was typing...

Acha d'armas is the axe from kufal tunnel right if im not mistaken it has a hidden affect that is sweet

Acha has no hidden effect that I'm aware of; you may be thinking of Tungi, which was rumoured to have a hidden effect but these are completely false. Tungi's still a really great axe, but it has no effects, hidden or otherwise.

 

[Lecan]

Acha has no hidden effect that I'm aware of; you may be thinking of Tungi, which was rumoured to have a hidden effect but these are completely false. Tungi's still a really great axe, but it has no effects, hidden or otherwise.

In doing some reading I found that the Acha d'Armas may have a critical hit+ against weapons or something, but that is more than likely as true as tungi increasing double attack rate (ie: false).

Tungi only seems to do this because it has such rediculously low delay that double attack just has more chances to proc. While the Tungi was nice when I got it, I really just need something with more oomph to it compared to the 41 base on the Tungi.

edit: Also, wouldn't the fact that Wrath gets 1 more TP per hit compared to the Acha offset the half second more delay it has?

 

[Tagrineth]

In doing some reading I found that the Acha d'Armas may have a critical hit+ against weapons or something, but that is more than likely as true as tungi increasing double attack rate (ie: false).

Tungi only seems to do this because it has such rediculously low delay that double attack just has more chances to proc. While the Tungi was nice when I got it, I really just need something with more oomph to it compared to the 41 base on the Tungi.

edit: Also, wouldn't the fact that Wrath gets 1 more TP per hit compared to the Acha offset the half second more delay it has?

Agreed about the double attack rate. That's what I usually tell people... hehe.

It isn't 1 more TP per hit, by the way. The game actually recognises one decimal place for the TP value. This is why a Thief or Ninja can do a Dual Wield attack round and get 9 TP - about 4.5~4.8 TP per hit. These decimals are truncated, not rounded, but never discarded.

 

[Lavi]

The STR function in the damage formula takes about 3-4 STR to raise the "base damage" of your weapon by 1.

So, for all intents and purposes, you can pretend that they have the same DMG: rating and STR+.

Regardless of the strength of each Rampage by the weapons, what it really comes down to, I think, is the half second difference in Delay. Acha d'Armas should on average outperform the Wrath Tabar significantly because it hits quite a bit faster. Even barring the (insignificantly) stronger Rampages with the Wrath Tabar, you're building TP and hitting much faster with the Acha.

People overplay the significance of +STR because they aren't well informed about the way damage is calculated.

Edit; this was posted while I was typing...


Acha has no hidden effect that I'm aware of; you may be thinking of Tungi, which was rumoured to have a hidden effect but these are completely false. Tungi's still a really great axe, but it has no effects, hidden or otherwise.

I'd go for Acha. The DPS is far greater than the wrath tabar and the loss in STR is negligeable at best due to the higher base damage of the Acha. Also the above is wrong. You will be hitting faster due to a much lower delay; however, you won't build any TP faster. It's been my knowledge that TP has a linear relationship with delay and delay is linear with time. So basically, if every job had 100% acc., they started attacking at the same time and landed the last hit at the same exact time, their TP would be the exact same barring taking any damage or +Store TP. The DoT may be different, but the TP build should be the exact same.

 

[CmdrFly]

Still, an extra 0.7% TP per hit is quite a bit.

I'd say Acha. I've always banked heavily on base dmg, and even though it's only 1 point difference, Acha has 'pimp' written all over it.

 

[Tagrineth]

I'd go for Acha. The DPS is far greater than the wrath tabar and the loss in STR is negligeable at best due to the higher base damage of the Acha. Also the above is wrong. You will be hitting faster due to a much lower delay; however, you won't build any TP faster. It's been my knowledge that TP has a linear relationship with delay and delay is linear with time. So basically, if every job had 100% acc., they started attacking at the same time and landed the last hit at the same exact time, their TP would be the exact same barring taking any damage or +Store TP. The DoT may be different, but the TP build should be the exact same.

Generally speaking, at least before the recent big TP update, faster weapons still mean faster TP gain. This could be different now; I confess that I have not really examined the current state of TP gain.

I do know that even after the update, daggers with sub 180 delay after Dual Wield (below the old TP floor) still gain TP slightly faster than 180+ delay after DW.

Eh, regardless of all this jargon, Acha has higher base DMG: (good) and noticeably lower delay (better), so even if the TP gain between the two axes is not noticeably different, the Acha will have significantly higher DPS - the two weapons' base damage ratings should act roughly identical most of the time.

 

[Lavi]

edit: Also, wouldn't the fact that Wrath gets 1 more TP per hit compared to the Acha offset the half second more delay it has?

No. Eventually over time, you will get the same TP with each weapon if you have the overall same accuracy(see above reason), but you will have lower DoT with the wrath tabar due to the lower base damage and higher delay. Basically TP works like this. Each X amount of delay is worth 1 point of TP. More delay, more TP. It has nothing to do with base damage or added stats besides +Store TP.

Also for the record, DPS is not always the best weapon choice. I had chosen to use Combat Casters Axe +2 while leveling warrior for quite awhile. I got the weapons at level 43 and used them until about level 55, when I got rampage. At first, I had always been able to get great DoT because of the much higher DPS and the added +attack of the weapons, but I also noticed my weapon skills lacked severely in damage because of the much lower base damage of the CC+2 versus mythril pick(+1). It became far more apparent when I got rampage which is why I sold them and got better axes. DoT isn't always the best choice especially when your weapon skill has huge spike damage like rampage. Seen some bad warriors with two axes and the highest base damage weapon was off-handed which I can never understand (maybe it was a mistake?).