I hope someone tries to flame me for this...

[Zealot X]

Ok... so I get asked tank Hakutaku for about 5 optical hats and was offered a nice chunck of gil to get me out of the nice xp party I was in with Johnnyb (great player). I didn't want to go really but I went since Tisbolo was one who was trying to get a hat and he's a good player and friend also. I get there and they look kind of organized. They've been at it for hours so I figure they got it together. They had a stun order so that gave me a good feeling.

First fight starts. I have hate thanks to emnity+14. Then my hate starts breaking down and I spam ninjitsu and do everything humanly possible to get it back. I have hate on and off but then some of the melees start voking when the NM bounces towards RNGs. I'm thinking, what am I doing wrong at this point. Luminy did a good job healing though (only whm?) and besides 4-5 deaths the alliance manages to survive. I, being a good ninja, only having to deal with the NM for a some hits here and there because of the DDs getting hate, survive with full health with only needing cures after AOE damage.

Not being happy with how the first fight when I offer a couple suggestions and asked for haste which I never got. I asked whoever had /thf to take turns SATA'ing on me. I had not looked up any strategy for beating this NM at this point. I have nothing against THFs but I generally don't need them for hate control in standard xp parties, but this was different. This was an alliance of some major DDs (some 75 and me 69). It should have been obvious that I needed (at the very least) to have WSs done on SATA on me. I also suggested that someone sleep the NM at the beginning of the fight. This way I could get 2 initial vokes and even try to land some debuffs before everything went crazy and I couldnt even see myself in the crowd. Fight starts, it gets slept, I get my 2 vokes in, and I'm tanking pretty well. I even have to cast ichi and then another Ni. We get Hakutaku probaly to about 4/5 hp and I assume this is where the DDs got enough TP to utterly destroy my hate cuz that when it started to bounce all over the place like the first fight. And this time we didn't have the whm. Some of the melees were voking to try to keep hate off mages which takes away from my ability to get/hold hate so I keep voking but in futility. We all end up dying and this is why....

After having to hear some ______ talk about me not voking I tell him to check the log and I say every time I blink (wasn't referring to Utsusemi but rather actual blinking from equipment changing macro) I'm voking. The after everyone leaves I go to Allakhazam and browse the posts about this NM. I see one post which pulled info from a guide about exactly how to beat Hakutaku.

The guide says....
1. you need a minimum of 2 nin tanks (I was only one)
2. 2-3 stunners (their stunning was probably the best thing they had going)
3. 2-3 mages
4. and a few melees with /thf to keep hate on the ninjas (I got zero TAs)
5. PLDs cannot tank this thing (so why did those who voked think they could?)
6. stun order must be setup
7. nin tanks should fight backwards to avoid paralyze (I didnt because I didn't know and had para for a good portion of 2nd fight. whm cured it first time)
8. Mnk's should NOT be meleeing >.< They should be chi-blasting (omg we had a mnk SATA'ing without being behind me and several DDs were using berserk and launching WSs whenever)
9. Every other melee should be SATA'ing on the 2 ninjas
10. melees should fight to the side or in back (mass confusion) to avoid paralyze
11. another tank and a couple melees should be there to take links (nope)

Practically the only thing that went right was stunning and Luminy did a good job as whm. But after Luminy left and all these other things were going wrong it was pretty much doomed. I'm a good tank but out doing all those errors was impossible for anyone. And then someone who died has the nerve to tell me that I suck? How about this... plz get the info on what you're doing before you involve so many people and waste hundreds of thousands on an item that you lose if you aren't successful. I would never have attempted this with such an ill-prepared pt if I was trying to get the optical hat for myself. It only took me a minute to find the proper strategy and they costed my good buddy Tis a bunch of xp and hours (and bribed one of my earlier xp pt members out of our pt) without even taking the same 1 minute to find the same information I found.

So the moral of the story kids is... if you want to do something with high risk and/or high reward, dig up some background information first. Find out what the mob is like, resistances, abilities, etc. and if there is a strategy to beating it. Don't get your tank killed and then blame it on him or her when you don't even do everything they ask. And if you have all the facts and still find me flame worthy plz don't hold back. Flame to your heart's content.

Peace

 

[ForteTeppo]

Damn, that sucks. >.> Maybe you should give a list of names for those screwing up :3 Other than that, i'm sorry -.-

 

[Rones]

Besides the 1 whm that left after the first fight, what was the rest of the mage setup? Sounds like the alliance was poorly formed.

 

[Cerescole]

Ok... so I get asked tank Hakutaku for about 5 optical hats and was offered a nice chunck of gil to get me out of the nice xp party I was in with Johnnyb (great player). I didn't want to go really but I went since Tisbolo was one who was trying to get a hat and he's a good player and friend also. I get there and they look kind of organized. They've been at it for hours so I figure they got it together. They had a stun order so that gave me a good feeling.

First fight starts. I have hate thanks to emnity+14. Then my hate starts breaking down and I spam ninjitsu and do everything humanly possible to get it back. I have hate on and off but then some of the melees start voking when the NM bounces towards RNGs. I'm thinking, what am I doing wrong at this point. Luminy did a good job healing though (only whm?) and besides 4-5 deaths the alliance manages to survive. I, being a good ninja, only having to deal with the NM for a some hits here and there because of the DDs getting hate, survive with full health with only needing cures after AOE damage.

Not being happy with how the first fight when I offer a couple suggestions and asked for haste which I never got. I asked whoever had /thf to take turns SATA'ing on me. I had not looked up any strategy for beating this NM at this point. I have nothing against THFs but I generally don't need them for hate control in standard xp parties, but this was different. This was an alliance of some major DDs (some 75 and me 69). It should have been obvious that I needed (at the very least) to have WSs done on SATA on me. I also suggested that someone sleep the NM at the beginning of the fight. This way I could get 2 initial vokes and even try to land some debuffs before everything went crazy and I couldnt even see myself in the crowd. Fight starts, it gets slept, I get my 2 vokes in, and I'm tanking pretty well. I even have to cast ichi and then another Ni. We get Hakutaku probaly to about 4/5 hp and I assume this is where the DDs got enough TP to utterly destroy my hate cuz that when it started to bounce all over the place like the first fight. And this time we didn't have the whm. Some of the melees were voking to try to keep hate off mages which takes away from my ability to get/hold hate so I keep voking but in futility. We all end up dying and this is why....

After having to hear some ______ talk about me not voking I tell him to check the log and I say every time I blink (wasn't referring to Utsusemi but rather actual blinking from equipment changing macro) I'm voking. The after everyone leaves I go to Allakhazam and browse the posts about this NM. I see one post which pulled info from a guide about exactly how to beat Hakutaku.

The guide says....
1. you need a minimum of 2 nin tanks (I was only one)
2. 2-3 stunners (their stunning was probably the best thing they had going)
3. 2-3 mages
4. and a few melees with /thf to keep hate on the ninjas (I got zero TAs)
5. PLDs cannot tank this thing (so why did those who voked think they could?)
6. stun order must be setup
7. nin tanks should fight backwards to avoid paralyze (I didnt because I didn't know and had para for a good portion of 2nd fight. whm cured it first time)
8. Mnk's should NOT be meleeing >.< They should be chi-blasting (omg we had a mnk SATA'ing without being behind me and several DDs were using berserk and launching WSs whenever)
9. Every other melee should be SATA'ing on the 2 ninjas
10. melees should fight to the side or in back (mass confusion) to avoid paralyze
11. another tank and a couple melees should be there to take links (nope)

Practically the only thing that went right was stunning and Luminy did a good job as whm. But after Luminy left and all these other things were going wrong it was pretty much doomed. I'm a good tank but out doing all those errors was impossible for anyone. And then someone who died has the nerve to tell me that I suck? How about this... plz get the info on what you're doing before you involve so many people and waste hundreds of thousands on an item that you lose if you aren't successful. I would never have attempted this with such an ill-prepared pt if I was trying to get the optical hat for myself. It only took me a minute to find the proper strategy and they costed my good buddy Tis a bunch of xp and hours (and bribed one of my earlier xp pt members out of our pt) without even taking the same 1 minute to find the same information I found.

So the moral of the story kids is... if you want to do something with high risk and/or high reward, dig up some background information first. Find out what the mob is like, resistances, abilities, etc. and if there is a strategy to beating it. Don't get your tank killed and then blame it on him or her when you don't even do everything they ask. And if you have all the facts and still find me flame worthy plz don't hold back. Flame to your heart's content.

Peace

For your information, I have fought Hakutaku before and was one of the very first in the alliance. If you'll remember, I was one of the only ones trying to give advice after the first fight as well to fix how cluttered everything was. As for "some melee were voking", I was there as a 74 Warrior to backup tank - in other words, if the NM is tearing at a ranger or mage and you aren't doing anything, or can't, it's my job to voke and yours to get hate back. The only problem was, I couldn't see you trying to get it back at all..... The second I would get into trouble, it would go after the mages trying to heal me. I know what I'm doing, but no one was listening - that wasn't my fault. As for dying, I couldn't really care less :? so many others there had died more then twice because they were taking too much hate (for someone with +14 enmity, you sure weren't trying very hard). For that first fight, I ended up tanking most of it =/ then after I died the first time, I watched it kill three other ppl before I had to tell you to voke. What do you think the purpose of a backup tank is? To stand around and look pretty while the "good ninja" lets the NM attack everyone? I was only doing my job.

 

[Cerescole]

After having to hear some ______ talk about me not voking I tell him to check the log

Just for future reference.....I'm a girl :|

One more thing.....

Not being happy with how the first fight when I offer a couple suggestions
....
I had not looked up any strategy for beating this NM at this point.

s'another reason you should have been listening to me =/ Very few were..... I don't remember you giving any suggestions in /p, and even if you had, what kinds of suggestions could you give without even knowing a strategy? Next time, ask and listen.

As for Tisbolo, I sent him a /tell appologizing that we never got to his hat and he was more concerned at how he owed you a cluster and how much he had to beg you to come on top of that. I've never partied with you in an XP party so I can't judge your tanking in that area, but I think you underestimated this fight before you started and didn't bother asking about a strategy.

 

[Strid]

Heres all you need screw the Alla post.

1. Paralyna macros for the tank/s
2. At least 3 stunners (that know how to do it right)
3. ALL dd's attack from the sides to avoid Para.
4. ALL sa/ta members to only sa/ta on the tanks. Since a blink tank is a preference here you need mulltipule sa/ta jobs I'd say at least 2-3.
5. Two tanks preferred but I've saw ONE WAR/NIN tank it all the way.

Also, NIN's shouldn't turn their backs. I've done him many times and never heard it done this way before. I don't see it working as your hate would decrease significantly over time due to NIN main hate gain being hitting w/o getting hit.

I went with the core of this group the previous night as you and yea it was utterly disorganized. First fight was awful I stayed Paralyzed so long I dropped after about 4-5min into the fight. The second fight went extremly well as the WHM knew he/she HAD to macro Paralyna for me and get it off me fast. Third fight...One of the BLM's started overlapping and stunning on top of others...Firaga, Thundaga... dead alliance, lost cluster...Everyone took off. Getting there lets not even go there was horrible and totally amaturish. I never had problems with hate on the first two fights at all got plenty of sa/ta's on me and when my health came back up I was rolling fine. The only time it bounced is when a BLM got brave, broke out of his stun cycle to nuke and got hate. not to much longer after that we all dropped to agas...

This guy is pie as long as Paralyna isn't on you so long to have a great effect on you and everyone does their job. Sounds like the group was more so unorganized with you than with me. Thing I hate is this. You do your best but without the support of others you look like poo when it all hits the fan and everyone goes for the tank to blame...This guy is no fluke NM and everyone must do the right thing ALWAYS. One slip up can mean death and a lose of about 700-800k. If you have a ping pong partner this guy is weaksauce but everyone must be on their A game.

In the end we tried 3 runs got 2 hats but here's what pissed me off...The second hat went to a BRD, WHM (has both 72+) because he was utterly whining "This is BS, I help set this run up so I should go after _no names_ ." So that right there goes to show who you were dealing with. We needed to get about 6-7 hats (if I remember correctly) and only 3-4 (pretty sure just 3) were to people who NEEDED them yet others, minus 1, thought they should come first....I did my best for them but it wasn't pretty, I did all I could do and left embarrased and minus 11k XP due to raise and tanking while weakened to die again on his move that ignores blink.

Valesken (SP) was the main whm that took control (assisting me statusly) after the first death of me and he/she did a wonderful job but some people started slipping and man it was rough...Don't worry about things like this is best I can tell you. It happens and they will think badly of you but it doesn't matter if you did all you could possibly do. Needless to say I'm still pretty pissed about this as I went for free to help and only got two thank yous and two "damn man you are good O_O would have been better if others had done their part." It's my fault you ended up going as I refused to go back with them. Good luck in the future man just forget about the event and keep on doing your thing

Take care

 

[Zealot X]

First of all, I asked Tisbolo what I needed before I even got there. But the strategy didn't involve me doing anything I wouldn't normally do. The problem was it was chaos and few people (not saying you were one of them) weren't following a strategy. If they all were I would have had hate just fine. I should never have to tell a DD with /thf to TA on me. Secondly, you werent the only one voking. And the alliance leader should have explained who was back up and who was going to be SATA'ing from the beginning. Thirdly, if you see me dissappear for a second (blink) it meant I hit my voke macro which has several equipment change macros to add on the emnity. If I was told you were back up tank I would have stayed opposite of you. Regardless of that no one SATA'd on me and I asked for it several times, and yes in /p >.< I also asked before the fight in /p. You should have checked the log like I told you to after you were complaining. I'm not saying you can't do it with only 1 ninja. What I'm saying is you can't have ALL those things going wrong at the same time. You don't remember me asking who had /thf before the second fight? You don't remember me saying take turns on TA? If no one listened to you and no one listened to me then why the hell would you blame me for it? And yes, I did hear suggestions before the second fight. And I did listen. What I heard was melees fight on the sides. But my main point and I will keep coming back to it is none of that matters if ppl don't TA the tank. You cant stay to the sides and rear if its bouncing all over the place. I'm not even naming names because it was so chaotic that I honestly couldn't even do so. But I'm not blaming you Cerescole. I'm just reacting to the whole thing and then putting up with comements about MY job. That's what pissed me off.

Strid's post was right on point. It would have worked that way and I didn't need to read a strategy to know that we needed SATAs. Just about any ninja would say the same thing. But I saw at least a couple SATAs go off from someone (I wont mention their name) who wasn't behind me and in the chaos was more likely to be behind a DD. Of course they were going to die. You can't be mnk, going all out on melee and then transfer your hate to someone other than the tank and expect it to be all fine and dandy. When you're doing something like this you can't play wrecklessly. You have to have a plan and then execute. That's what I'm saying. Don't blame the tank when it was made impossible for the tank to do his job.


Also, as for ninjas not turning their backs, if I knew about it I would have. Why? because 1. I never got haste on 2nd fight and 2. I never got paralyna. And voke can (and was) be interrupted by paralyze.

And no, Tisbolo did not have to beg. I was only hesitant because I find it rude to suddenly leave another party and especially to do so without a tank. That's why I originally turned down the 200k offer from Hundredfist. And believe me I needed the gil. And afterwards I also told Tisbolo that I was sorry he didn't get his hat but before the fight, after the whm left he already knew it. And then after I found the post on allakhazam and went back in the game to tell him how to beat Hakutaku for the next time and explained what went wrong. And what I asked Tisbolo for is if I could still have the 200k I was originally offered by Hundredfist, not from him. But he told me he would buy me a cluster.

So if you still want to flame me then so be it. But have all the facts first.

 

[Zealot X]

1 ninja, ok
but 1 paralyzed ninja w/o haste and no TAs?
mmmm....
how about 1 paralyzed ninja w/o haste and /thfs SATA WS on no one or other DDs?

omg, and I get to be the one who sucks?

 

[Kirayamato]

Ironic isn't it? LOL!
You were invited to kill Hakutaku for the first time and ppl did not tell you what is the stategy.
You are not a super player.

Bah paralyze is nothing as Strid said. I killed hakutaku so many times until i get bored and never i experienced getting wipe due to paralyze ;
You are not at fault that's for sure IMO. :wink:

 

[Kirayamato]

Mistake regarding about paralyzed ;
That was referring to the DDs XD;
Well if ppl take their role seriously, this shouldn't have happen.
All whm/ healer should focus on the ninja's status.

Therefore the owner of the hatutaku cluster has to suffer due to disorganized alliance, irresponsible members and stupid players :|

[That's too bad.]

 

[Zealot X]

agreed, paralyze isnt a big deal for the DDs but it can kill provoke and all other hate grabbing ninja spells. Like I said, whm did a good job first fight but then had to leave. For a 700k+ item I would have replaced the needed jobs or would have waited another day. I feel bad for the person who lost their cluster due to this.

 

[Zealot X]

Also I appologize to Cerecole for calling you a him. I didnt see you were a girl much like you didn't see me voking. But that doesn't mean I wasn't. I can't blame you though for not knowing that much about equipment change macros for a nin. Or maybe you do. But if you do then you should not expect to see the animation every time. I could explain it to you in more detail but I doubt you'd be interested.

 

[Tymon]

Now I am glad that I was doing Bastokan missions when I was asked to come. :|

 

[Rones]

In the end we tried 3 runs got 2 hats but here's what pissed me off...The second hat went to a BRD

I actually heard about this from the brd himself and I think you were a bit out of line on this Strid. The brd and his friend had in fact organized the entire event for thier 2 hats. The plan had been from the beginning for those 2 to get their hats first, and then anyone else who needed one could go after that. However, when you got in you started giving orders and saying the others would go first, despite the fact they had planned the order over a week ahead of time. From what I have heard from different people, those 2 were in charge, so its their choice (and privelage) as to the order and not your place to say otherwise. If the others going after those 2 didn't agree with the plan, they could have organized their own alliance.

 

[Rones]

I feel bad for the person who lost their cluster due to this.

The brd bought him a new one right away.

 

[Strid]

In the end we tried 3 runs got 2 hats but here's what pissed me off...The second hat went to a BRD

I actually heard about this from the brd himself and I think you were a bit out of line on this Strid. The brd and his friend had in fact organized the entire event for thier 2 hats. The plan had been from the beginning for those 2 to get their hats first, and then anyone else who needed one could go after that. However, when you got in you started giving orders and saying the others would go first, despite the fact they had planned the order over a week ahead of time. From what I have heard from different people, those 2 were in charge, so its their choice (and privelage) as to the order and not your place to say otherwise. If the others going after those 2 didn't agree with the plan, they could have organized their own alliance.

I agreed to go but I made one thing clear..The people who need the hat get it first or find someone else to go. They abliged I went and got dooped. The orders I gave were strategy only (as it seemed no one had even been down here before..) and when they told me the BRD was going next not only I but a good bit of ppl got pissed. I wouldn't have even gone for mages to get the hat and they knew this hence why they didn't tell me until I got there and past the paintbrush door of the order. After being dooped I suggested an order format that only the BRD, PLD, and MNK didn't like out of the hmmm 15-17 ppl there.

To sum it up for you Rones. I didn't need the hat, I've had mine for a while I just offered to go and for free. I Made it clear I wouldn't do mages was told "np". Got there for them to unroll there lil childish plan. With you not being there and "Hearing from the BRD" you have no place to tell me I was out of line.. I bet he failed to mention to you I said I wouldn't go for useless hats didn't he?

Also something that made me laugh:
"I actually heard about this from the brd himself " :lol:

He may be all nice and stuff but I know a ton of folks who can vouche for him being one of the biggest hypocritc/lier type ppl around. This was my final straw with him as I have forgive him to many times for his highschool bullshit.

Nice try bud but facts are nice for trying to flame not word of mouth.

 

[Strid]

I feel bad for the person who lost their cluster due to this.

The brd bought him a new one right away.

Ya, he told you that huh? He may have handed him another but it wasn't free. Here we go, word of mouth again.

 

[Aight]

Cry me a river.

 

[Strid]

I feel bad for the person who lost their cluster due to this.

The brd bought him a new one right away.

Little more on this. He didn't BUY the looser of the cluster one he already had an extra on him. Once again he didn't give it up for free. You wasn't there I would really like to know what busniess you have stating all this like you where there.

 

[Cerescole]

First of all, I asked Tisbolo what I needed before I even got there. But the strategy didn't involve me doing anything I wouldn't normally do. The problem was it was chaos and few people (not saying you were one of them) weren't following a strategy. If they all were I would have had hate just fine. I should never have to tell a DD with /thf to TA on me. Secondly, you werent the only one voking. And the alliance leader should have explained who was back up and who was going to be SATA'ing from the beginning. Thirdly, if you see me dissappear for a second (blink) it meant I hit my voke macro which has several equipment change macros to add on the emnity. If I was told you were back up tank I would have stayed opposite of you. Regardless of that no one SATA'd on me and I asked for it several times, and yes in /p >.< I also asked before the fight in /p. You should have checked the log like I told you to after you were complaining. I'm not saying you can't do it with only 1 ninja. What I'm saying is you can't have ALL those things going wrong at the same time. You don't remember me asking who had /thf before the second fight? You don't remember me saying take turns on TA? If no one listened to you and no one listened to me then why the hell would you blame me for it? And yes, I did hear suggestions before the second fight. And I did listen. What I heard was melees fight on the sides. But my main point and I will keep coming back to it is none of that matters if ppl don't TA the tank. You cant stay to the sides and rear if its bouncing all over the place. I'm not even naming names because it was so chaotic that I honestly couldn't even do so. But I'm not blaming you Cerescole. I'm just reacting to the whole thing and then putting up with comements about MY job. That's what pissed me off.

Strid's post was right on point. It would have worked that way and I didn't need to read a strategy to know that we needed SATAs. Just about any ninja would say the same thing. But I saw at least a couple SATAs go off from someone (I wont mention their name) who wasn't behind me and in the chaos was more likely to be behind a DD. Of course they were going to die. You can't be mnk, going all out on melee and then transfer your hate to someone other than the tank and expect it to be all fine and dandy. When you're doing something like this you can't play wrecklessly. You have to have a plan and then execute. That's what I'm saying. Don't blame the tank when it was made impossible for the tank to do his job.


Also, as for ninjas not turning their backs, if I knew about it I would have. Why? because 1. I never got haste on 2nd fight and 2. I never got paralyna. And voke can (and was) be interrupted by paralyze.

And no, Tisbolo did not have to beg. I was only hesitant because I find it rude to suddenly leave another party and especially to do so without a tank. That's why I originally turned down the 200k offer from Hundredfist. And believe me I needed the gil. And afterwards I also told Tisbolo that I was sorry he didn't get his hat but before the fight, after the whm left he already knew it. And then after I found the post on allakhazam and went back in the game to tell him how to beat Hakutaku for the next time and explained what went wrong. And what I asked Tisbolo for is if I could still have the 200k I was originally offered by Hundredfist, not from him. But he told me he would buy me a cluster.

So if you still want to flame me then so be it. But have all the facts first.

I couldn't see you blinking =/ but it could have been easily missed since I couldn't even see myself..... Before the first fight, I asked the leader of the alliance if there was going to be an opening Skillchain onto you and he said no =/ I'll admit, everytime I do this, there is an opening Skillchain. Furthermore, I wasn't familiar with the term "blinking" to mean blinking equipment, which would explain why I never saw you provoking - when you change equipment and voke simultaniously, it doesn't show you voking. I know you aren't namining names, which is nice of you, I just saw so many references to the arguement we had after to make me think I was the main reason you posted this. About the SA/TA people and your saying anything about it in /p, I saw the Paladin and the Red Mage who wanted me to come saying this as well (which was probably why I never cought you saying it; I was talking to the Red Mage in /tell who was asking me if the fight was ok). After I told all melee to stay at its sides (ninja in front, me in back, the rest at its sides), I told them to keep their hate as low as possible - only two people there had the resourses to tank it and live (you and I). As I said tho, very few were listening =/ I was trying to talk to a few of them in /tell, but they were ignoring me. I never said it was your fault alone that we lost - most of the melee were just ignoring you, me, the pld, and the whm who were trying our best to get everything organized. And since one of the ppl with sa/ta was in the alliance before I was helping to set it up, I assumed he knew his role as well (being to stick hate on one tank if the other tank gets into trouble or making a skillchain to stick hate which I was told we weren't doing by the alliance leader).

By the way, the person who lost her cluster only needs one more eye to have another cluster synthed so she has one more shot.