I hope someone tries to flame me for this...

Also, I have to use chat filters so I can't see stuns in the log but I can see my own status effects and actions.
 
err sorry about grammar 1st^^;

hmm before you say he didn't provoke at all... do you know that about 'blink' term as he said?

try do this more than once in your macro (1macro only)

/ja "Utsusemi: Ni" <me>
/equp legs "Byakko's Haidate" <me>

use this macro w/o haidate at start. you'll soon find that you are sometimes not seeing the utsu shadow effect. this is same with voke macro. you might not see voke effect on your screen.

another reason that i can think why you guys said he didn't voke at all is maybe because he paralyzed all the time. if he paralyzed, the "Zealotx do Provoke on Hakutaku" msg will not come in your log windows. it will come out as "Zealotx is paralyzed". And so you guys assume he didnt voke all the time and let alone hakutaku eat all people who have more hate than him;;. In addition, i hope you guys know, once voke is cancelled by paralyzed, you need to wait for 30 sec to do next voke. this same happen to any /ja. if you want to do barrage and you got paralyzed, you need to wait 5min to make next barrage...

i hope this will help you guys better with people who keep changing gear in exp pt^^
 
First and foremost, I pity Zealot getting flamed for helping an alliance in getting optical hat.

Well, since I was NOT in that situation, I can't confirm whether Zealot did or did not provoke. However based upon my understanding, one will not see that particular action done when he or she changes his/her equipment.
And please don't tell me you actually stop to see he actually did that action in Text during such crucial events;

Zealot provokes Hakutaku.

You maybe mad to locate that text when there are other 17ppl+ spamming abilities and monsters too. Moreover i think it is a waste of energy to tank as a ninja when melees to not SATA WS behind him for hate. It is a pain in the ass to tank when heavy WS + SATA is not done behind the tanker.
 
It would seem there is a cheerleader effect going on here. There were too many of Cerescole's friends/LS mates at the event, and OF COURSE they'll take her side. It would seem they're only picking on Zealotx because since he just came in, he HAD to be the reason everything messed up huh? :roll:. Hell, even one of the Blms at the event said no one knew what the fuck was going on. Don't blame Zealotx, blame you're fucked up setup, failure to communicate, failure of setting up a good strategy and whatnot. I mean really, at Zealot's level, I think a tank is supposed to know when to provoke, the rules of Ninjitsu, Elemental wheel, whatever.

Logxiix said:
...if you *thought* someone slept it at the beginning but it was really stun, your obviously not reading the log ;\...
Click to expand...

Most Ninja filter alot of things, so he probably saw the sleep graphic, and never noticed the sleep got resisted and that a stun was casted, much like how everyone did not see his provoke graphic, UH OH!
 
For the record:
I was not in the event
I am not acquainted with either side of the arguement

With that said, I guess you can completely disregard my posts, but please don't be that ignorant.

Kirayamato said:
And please don't tell me you actually stop to see he actually did that action in Text during such crucial events;

Zealot provokes Hakutaku.

You maybe mad to locate that text when there are other 17ppl+ spamming abilities and monsters too. Moreover i think it is a waste of energy to tank as a ninja when melees to not SATA WS behind him for hate. It is a pain in the ass to tank when heavy WS + SATA is not done behind the tanker.
Click to expand...

Good point Senor Tomato, who in the hell has the time to carefully go through a log when there's 18 people flooding your screen with job abilities, physical hits, debuffs, heals, nukes, wearing off of debuffs, enemy hits, enemy tp moves? I'm sorry, but if you say you can, that's bullshit. AND you expect a Ninja tank to hold hate off of everyone, when he is paralyzed and not getting TA + WS's on him? That's rich...
 
_Neosquall_ said:
Good point Senor Tomato, who in the hell has the time to carefully go through a log when there's 18 people flooding your screen with job abilities, physical hits, debuffs, heals, nukes, wearing off of debuffs, enemy hits, enemy tp moves? I'm sorry, but if you say you can, that's bullshit. AND you expect a Ninja tank to hold hate off of everyone, when he is paralyzed and not getting TA + WS's on him? That's rich...
Click to expand...

Don't forget Haste. No haste = less damage dealt = less hate generated, and no haste = longer shadow recast timer = more hate lost from being hit when shadows were down.

As for the provoke animation, I tested this myself - if you use /equip macros without a /wait line in your Provoke macro, there is no animation. Make this macro:

/equip feet
/ja "Provoke" <t>

Make sure you have something on your feet, then go 'voke something. You'll see your character change gear, and there will be no animation or sound effect for the Provoke. The only things that tell you that you used 'voke is the nice "(your name) provokes the <t>" line in the chat log, and the very POed monster that's gonna try to smack you for insulting his mama.

Also, unlike weaponskills or magic, there's no "chargeup" time for Provoke. There's no "Zealot readies Provoke" line in the chat log, it's just "Zealot provokes the <t>". And if you're paralyzed while doing Provoke, there's a chance that a pretty yellow "Zealot is paralyzed" line will show up instead. Now, if you're paralyzed while using magic, all that happens is your spell is interrupted - a second or two later, you can try again. There's no cooldown timer for the spell, and no MP cost. However, JAs are different - if you lose one due to paralysis, you have to wait for the cooldown timer to end before you try again.

So, Zealot's trying to tank Hakutaku. He's below the average level that's recommended. He's paralyzed so he might not use Provoke when he tries, plus he does less damage over time (so less hate) and it's harder to recast shadows (so he loses more hate from being hit). He's also lacking Haste, so he doesn't do as much damage (again, less hate) and can't recast shadows as fast (so loses more hate, again). Plus no melee are SATAing on to him (so the hate is on someone other than him), and he's the only tank when the strategy states that two NINs are recommended. Plus he's never fought Hakutaku before, and no one really gave him a strategy to use. Wrap all that up into one nice little package and you've got a near-impossible feat for just about any player, regardless of how skilled they are.

So, I just said why it's not Zealot's fault that you guys lost. Does that mean it's Cere's fault? Hell no! Everthing I read on here said she did a terrific job, considering the circumstances. So, who's fault is it? Could it be that *gasp* no singular person can be at fault, for once?. Yes, I think that's it. You guys had a poorly-formed alliance that lacked a strategy other than "bash the thing until it dies". And I don't see how singling one person out of a dozen to put all the blame on will help anything.

One last thing before I go: this topic has been argued to death. Let it go. Just tell each other that you're sorry and let this topic die off.

And just because I know that someone will come in here and point out that I made a big, long-winded post and then told everyone to forget about it: Yeah, I know, I'm a hypocrite. Since when is that a bad thing? =P
 
Zealot X said:
Ok... so I get asked tank Hakutaku for about 5 optical hats and was offered a nice chunck of gil to get me out of the nice xp party I was in with Johnnyb (great player). I didn't want to go really but I went since Tisbolo was one who was trying to get a hat and he's a good player and friend also. I get there and they look kind of organized. They've been at it for hours so I figure they got it together. They had a stun order so that gave me a good feeling.

First fight starts. I have hate thanks to emnity+14. Then my hate starts breaking down and I spam ninjitsu and do everything humanly possible to get it back. I have hate on and off but then some of the melees start voking when the NM bounces towards RNGs. I'm thinking, what am I doing wrong at this point. Luminy did a good job healing though (only whm?) and besides 4-5 deaths the alliance manages to survive. I, being a good ninja, only having to deal with the NM for a some hits here and there because of the DDs getting hate, survive with full health with only needing cures after AOE damage.

Not being happy with how the first fight when I offer a couple suggestions and asked for haste which I never got. I asked whoever had /thf to take turns SATA'ing on me. I had not looked up any strategy for beating this NM at this point. I have nothing against THFs but I generally don't need them for hate control in standard xp parties, but this was different. This was an alliance of some major DDs (some 75 and me 69). It should have been obvious that I needed (at the very least) to have WSs done on SATA on me. I also suggested that someone sleep the NM at the beginning of the fight. This way I could get 2 initial vokes and even try to land some debuffs before everything went crazy and I couldnt even see myself in the crowd. Fight starts, it gets slept, I get my 2 vokes in, and I'm tanking pretty well. I even have to cast ichi and then another Ni. We get Hakutaku probaly to about 4/5 hp and I assume this is where the DDs got enough TP to utterly destroy my hate cuz that when it started to bounce all over the place like the first fight. And this time we didn't have the whm. Some of the melees were voking to try to keep hate off mages which takes away from my ability to get/hold hate so I keep voking but in futility. We all end up dying and this is why....

After having to hear some ______ talk about me not voking I tell him to check the log and I say every time I blink (wasn't referring to Utsusemi but rather actual blinking from equipment changing macro) I'm voking. The after everyone leaves I go to Allakhazam and browse the posts about this NM. I see one post which pulled info from a guide about exactly how to beat Hakutaku.

The guide says....
1. you need a minimum of 2 nin tanks (I was only one)
2. 2-3 stunners (their stunning was probably the best thing they had going)
3. 2-3 mages
4. and a few melees with /thf to keep hate on the ninjas (I got zero TAs)
5. PLDs cannot tank this thing (so why did those who voked think they could?)
6. stun order must be setup
7. nin tanks should fight backwards to avoid paralyze (I didnt because I didn't know and had para for a good portion of 2nd fight. whm cured it first time)
8. Mnk's should NOT be meleeing >.< They should be chi-blasting (omg we had a mnk SATA'ing without being behind me and several DDs were using berserk and launching WSs whenever)
9. Every other melee should be SATA'ing on the 2 ninjas
10. melees should fight to the side or in back (mass confusion) to avoid paralyze
11. another tank and a couple melees should be there to take links (nope)

Practically the only thing that went right was stunning and Luminy did a good job as whm. But after Luminy left and all these other things were going wrong it was pretty much doomed. I'm a good tank but out doing all those errors was impossible for anyone. And then someone who died has the nerve to tell me that I suck? How about this... plz get the info on what you're doing before you involve so many people and waste hundreds of thousands on an item that you lose if you aren't successful. I would never have attempted this with such an ill-prepared pt if I was trying to get the optical hat for myself. It only took me a minute to find the proper strategy and they costed my good buddy Tis a bunch of xp and hours (and bribed one of my earlier xp pt members out of our pt) without even taking the same 1 minute to find the same information I found.

So the moral of the story kids is... if you want to do something with high risk and/or high reward, dig up some background information first. Find out what the mob is like, resistances, abilities, etc. and if there is a strategy to beating it. Don't get your tank killed and then blame it on him or her when you don't even do everything they ask. And if you have all the facts and still find me flame worthy plz don't hold back. Flame to your heart's content.

Peace
Click to expand...




Allakhazam is full of shit bro 8)

Ever seen a tarutaru tank Hakutaku 8) ?
 
Yep Yep

Thanks Sethala. Thank you very much. Kind of hard not having a bunch of friends come to defend me. It was very hard. But this thread is has been argued to death. All the important points have been gotten out whether it was well received or not. So I'd like to thank all those who tried one last time. I've already appologized to Cerescole but I'm not above doing it again. I never meant this thread to go past page 2, lol. But it was kinda important to me. But I never blamed anyone person, especially not Cerescole. I only wanted the same courtesy.

so as far as I'm concerned this thread is now deceased and buried.


thanks again T.T

GL in the game

Peace
 
_Neosquall_ said:
Most Ninja filter alot of things, so he probably saw the sleep graphic, and never noticed the sleep got resisted and that a stun was casted, much like how everyone did not see his provoke graphic, UH OH!
Click to expand...

Like I said, Hakutaku cannot be slept. Even if you did or did not see the graphic of sleep casted, you should know it was resisted, (waste of MP to even try to sleep it if you ask me.) With that in mind, and he did see a sleep graphic, who's to say he didn't see the Stun graphic? "UH OH!"
 
Logxiix said:
_Neosquall_ said:
Most Ninja filter alot of things, so he probably saw the sleep graphic, and never noticed the sleep got resisted and that a stun was casted, much like how everyone did not see his provoke graphic, UH OH!
Click to expand...

Like I said, Hakutaku cannot be slept. Even if you did or did not see the graphic of sleep casted, you should know it was resisted, (waste of MP to even try to sleep it if you ask me.) With that in mind, and he did see a sleep graphic, who's to say he didn't see the Stun graphic? "UH OH!"
Click to expand...

He filters most of what's in the chat log...

Zealotx said:
Also, I have to use chat filters so I can't see stuns in the log but I can see my own status effects and actions.
Click to expand...

That means he can not see if Sleep or Stun has been casted/resisted, understand?

As for not seeing the Stun graphic, the only logical reason is that he did not see it casted. It's not really all that hard to understand...

Logxiix said:
Meh, I won't go any further, I'll just stop posting.
Click to expand...

UH OH!
 
Neo, make up your mind dude..

We know he filters stuff. We know (or at least I know and many others here do) that Hakutaku can't be slept.

_Neosquall_ said:
so he probably saw the sleep graphic, and never noticed the sleep got resisted and that a stun was casted
Click to expand...
_Neosquall_ said:
As for not seeing the Stun graphic, the only logical reason is that he did not see it casted. It's not really all that hard to understand...
Click to expand...

Your saying here, that a stun may have been casted, and the graphic was not seen, and the only reason for that is it couldn't be seen casted.

With that in mind, if you see a sleep graphic, you must have been able to have seen it casted, otherwise you wouldn't see the graphic effect. RUH ROH!
 
Logxiix said:
Your saying here, that a stun may have been casted, and the graphic was not seen, and the only reason for that is it couldn't be seen casted.
Click to expand...

Cerescole said:
We NEVER slept it At the start of the second fight, one of the Black Mages stunned it
Click to expand...

Logxiix said:
With that in mind, if you see a sleep graphic, you must have been able to have seen it casted, otherwise you wouldn't see the graphic effect.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because all players keep their eyes on the screen at all times, never to turn away from it never ever ever.

Are we done here yet, or do you want "The Last Word"? You can have it, no e-pen0r to be gained on my side.
 
First and foremost, my e-penis is far more larger than yours, and it will stay that way.

I'll leave it be at that, simply because we'll be arguing about it forever, and since neither of us was there, it was wrong for either of us to get involved i'll admit it.

But remember one thing neo, my epenis > yours.
 
well to try and solve the little disagreement between Log and Neo I'll just say my eyes are constantly going back and forth between the screen and the log. When i hit a macro I need to check the action in the log to make sure it happened and that I didn't mt or lag or w/e. I can't see the casting "text" in the log and did notice a stun animation. But since it was motionless and I was ablt to get a whole 2 debuffs in (being Ni spells) I confused this with sleep since that is what I asked for. I guess I'm not miraculously perfect but then again I never did suggest I was infallible. So plz stop arguing.

I didn't know at the time that it couldn't be slept and don't remember anyone telling me that unless I just didn't notice. But I really don't know why this is even relevant. But its over now so thanks guys ^^; both of you. I'm looking forward to learning more about these higher lvl battles and fighting along side an alliance that is well prepared and will follow whatever strategy they lay out.
 
Good point Senor Tomato, who in the hell has the time to carefully go through a log when there's 18 people flooding your screen with job abilities, physical hits, debuffs, heals, nukes, wearing off of debuffs, enemy hits, enemy tp moves? I'm sorry, but if you say you can, that's bullshit.
Click to expand...

I know i can. I know Perfectangel can. I know a lot of ppl who can.
On a lot of mobs, if you cant, your screwed.
 
Good point Senor Tomato, who in the hell has the time to carefully go through a log when there's 18 people flooding your screen with job abilities, physical hits, debuffs, heals, nukes, wearing off of debuffs, enemy hits, enemy tp moves? I'm sorry, but if you say you can, that's bullshit.
Click to expand...

I know i can. I know Perfectangel can. I know a lot of ppl who can.
On a lot of mobs, if you cant, your screwed.
 
plz don't continue a side-argument in this thread T.T If an admin is watching plz plz lock this thread. It is over.

You might be the bomb at watching the log for the entire alliance without filters and regardless of which PT you are in. But the fact remains...

"Zealotx is Paralyzed"

Perfect even said she didn't remember casting on me. I can understand the need to want to defend one's reputation but seriously... the purpose of the thread was never to blame specific people, simply to point out that adequate tanking was impossible under the circumstances. Perfectangel may as well be perfect. I don't know. And because I don't know I cannot nor will I ever say she sucks. But am I supposed to pretend I wasn't paralyzed in order to protect her from being at fault? No.

Please lets move on. I have. Only reason I'm posting now is to try and deaden any side arguments that may still exist. If you really want to talk about the ability to read the log please create a new thread. Thanks.
 
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