I just bought Jesus!!!!

[Nicolette]

Dear Bela,
Just FYI, you cant make up a term and then put quotes around it unless someone else has actually said it before. Thats what quoting is. Please find in the thread where someone used the term "master of interpretation" before you did.

Also, you need to learn what context is. Your argument was:
if X group talks about christianity (which they can) then: "I feel people should be able to say insulting racial, bigoted,or homohating comments without any repercussions"

Or, to make it simpler, you feel that freedom of speech should allow all speech, (including "homohating" which is not a word, you should have used homophobic if you didn't mean to equate homosexuality and hate...) which is not what the framers intended. You have the right to freedom of speech except in situations that directly cause panic or incite violence. For instance, you can call President George Bush a genocidal madman or a fucktard or anything you want, form political parties or hold public rallies to overthrow your government even to the point of armed rebellion -- but you cant yell fire in a crowded theatre when there isn't a fire.

The fact that you've somehow taken both freedom of religion, and freedom of speech and turned them into freedom to be christian or STFU is disturbing, but you're seemingly unable to understand how people can have a lack of faith, in the same way that some athiests are unable to understand those who can.

 

[Trippyhippy]

I can't even express the amount of retardation you all are spouting. It's quite comedic to see such a large group of mentally challenged inbred failures. Keep Christian bashing, it's cute but not longer worth my time. I figured some people would be worth going back and forth with, but I was very wrong. Just another group of ignorant individuals who believe "If I can't see it, it's not real" and have absolutely no regard for others' beliefs or possess tact.

Also, to Trippyhippy based on this HILARIOUS comment.

I seriously laughed until tears.
Have you never heard of hate speech? Stop trying to sound intelligent if such a simple concept escapes you.
You can say anything... as long as it doesn't in any way offend any minority.
Saying any race, religion, or sexual preference slang term is HATE SPEECH and will get you SUED.
New York City. NIG.GER is against the LAW to say. It's a "banned word". Look it up scholar.

Hate speech: a term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, moral or political views, socioeconomic class, occupation or appearance (such as height, weight, and hair color), mental capacity and any other distinction-liability. The term covers written as well as oral communication and some forms of behaviors in a public setting. It is also sometimes called antilocution and is the first point on Allport's scale which measures prejudice in a society.


In the United States, government is broadly forbidden by the First Amendment of the Constitution from restricting speech. Jurists generally understand this to mean that the government cannot regulate the content of speech, but that it can address the harmful effects of speech through laws such as those against defamation or incitement to riot.

The fact that such laws apply only to the victimization of specific individuals has led to disputes regarding how such laws should be regulated, if they are to be regulated at all. Among those who hold that hate speech must be regulated, it is undecided as to whether hate speech should be regulated by the state or by voluntaristic communities. Criticisms of hate speech regulation include the view that such legislation would be unjust to those with controversial political or social views.

Even you are protected under your First Amendment rights to misrepresent the law of the USA on the Internet. It is perfectly legal for you to spew your ignorance concerning the law as much as you want to.

Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because slander is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement.

In print or on film, it is libel.

The main difference is that slander deals with facts. What you are talking about is prosecution based on opinion. You have stomped all over everyone elses religious beliefs, while criticizing us for speaking negativly about your religion, in every post you made in this thread.

Furthermore, you keep making personal attacks and calling people stupid and you are gonna catch a temp ban.

 

[Trippyhippy]

In bela's defense:

The New York City Council passed a resolution on February 28, 2007 that symbolically bans the use of the word ++++++. There are no penalties for non-compliance. The resolution also asks that songs including the word ++++++ in their lyrics be excluded from consideration for the Grammy Awards.

Still, it doesn't ban the word, it symboliclly bans the word. Just goes to show, you saw half of a news story last year, exagerated the shit out of it, and presented made up bullshit as factual information.

Way to go.

 

[Rips]

Bela, I don't think you got the rate downs for your original post in this thread or for what your arguing it but rather HOW your arguing it. You could have been more mature with it to be honest and a little more professional.

In all seriousness, I struggle with my faith almost every single day. I'm Greek Orthadox (that's another branch off bela) and Greeks seem to be laid back a little more when it comes to the whole "live without sin" thing. Perhaps that's why I never really cared growing up but always believed he was there.

Thing is though, we know for a fact Jesus Christ the man existed and we know that he was crusified. He put himself up to die for us, man or son of God, I guess I should say thanks to that, heh....

I found a post on another forum in a religion thread about why a guy doesn't believe the bible is the word of God. Summed things up good:

"I didn't trust the men who told me this book was Your Word, because I found them to be unreliable in other ways: greedy and selfish and hungry for power in many cases, and narrow and foolish in others.

"I did not trust them, because they defended the oppression of women.

"I did not trust them, because they defended the supremacy of the so-called White Race, while claiming that Your Word and Your love was for everyone.

"I did not trust them because they told me that you made me just as I am, and yet that the way I was made was evil because my desire is for men rather than for women. I did not trust them because they told me that I was made by a Loving God who nevertheless wants me to suffer torment and loneliness all my life, and I would not believe that You would do such a thing as to make me for that purpose.

"I did not trust that the text was Your Word when it came to the facts of Creation, because before it existed you gave us a truer Word, which is Nature itself, and the text contradicts what we can observe.

"I did not believe that this text was Your Word as to matters of fact, because it contradicts itself, and that would make You a liar.

"I did not trust that this text was Your Word, because as plainly read in the text You lied to Adam and Eve, while the Serpent told the truth, and You would not declare Yourself to be a liar.

"I did not trust that this text was Your Word, because You made us humans with minds and senses and logic and other great gifts, and not to use them would be shameful; yet those who defend the text as Your Word (as to matters of fact) claim that You created all the physical evidence we've found, from the stratified fossils, yea even to the Cosmic Background Radiation, as devices to fool and deceive us, and I would not believe You were such a Deceiver.

"If I should have trusted these dishonest and wicked men (and some women); if I should have denied my own senses in favor of scripture; if I should have trusted translations that I knew to be false; if You are indeed so cruel as to make me to suffer, and deny me partnership and love my whole life long; if You are such a Deceiver as to demand that we humans forego the use of our minds and senses which you gave us—then do with me what you will, false and evil god, for I would rather spend eternity in Hell with other good people than one minute in Heaven with you."
That's what I'd say, in the unlikely event such a thing happened. And btw my capitalization is exactly as I intended it to be.

That's what goes through my mind every time I question my faith. Bottom line is, MEN wrote the bible. Hetrosexual, old fasioned, MEN of the past. That says quite a bit on it's own, I believe. Even if it was God that told them what to say or we supposed to take their word for it?

The worst thing about religion is so much bad comes out of it. One of the things that upsets me the most is The Mormons and their polygamy. It's not even the degrading of the women, but don't get me started on the children and teens in Utah and Arizona with their arranged marriages and what not. I'm serious too, if there's anything i'm educated about and can actually debate and argue, it's The Morman religion. ><

Enough ranting from me. Bible thumpers drive me away from God, and then I struggle with myself to rekindle my faith in him again. I just wish God would make some HUGE introduction in modern day time on our planet and just give us a shot. If he truly does exist and watches over everything, he must be the most intellegent being out of all of us and hopefully not closed minded.

Edit: That was post 1,000. Sweeet.....

 

[Xalioniaf]

Furthermore, you keep making personal attacks and calling people stupid and you are gonna catch a temp ban.

I don't know what it is, Trip, but that felt like the lamest conclusion I've read in a while.

 

[Uzor]

Bela, I don't think you got the rate downs for your original post in this thread or for what your arguing it but rather HOW your arguing it. You could have been more mature with it to be honest and a little more professional.

In all seriousness, I struggle with my faith almost every single day. I'm Greek Orthadox (that's another branch off bela) and Greeks seem to be laid back a little more when it comes to the whole "live without sin" thing. Perhaps that's why I never really cared growing up but always believed he was there.

Thing is though, we know for a fact Jesus Christ the man existed and we know that he was crusified. He put himself up to die for us, man or son of God, I guess I should say thanks to that, heh....

I found a post on another forum in a religion thread about why a guy doesn't believe the bible is the word of God. Summed things up good:

"I didn't trust the men who told me this book was Your Word, because I found them to be unreliable in other ways: greedy and selfish and hungry for power in many cases, and narrow and foolish in others.

"I did not trust them, because they defended the oppression of women.

"I did not trust them, because they defended the supremacy of the so-called White Race, while claiming that Your Word and Your love was for everyone.

"I did not trust them because they told me that you made me just as I am, and yet that the way I was made was evil because my desire is for men rather than for women. I did not trust them because they told me that I was made by a Loving God who nevertheless wants me to suffer torment and loneliness all my life, and I would not believe that You would do such a thing as to make me for that purpose.

"I did not trust that the text was Your Word when it came to the facts of Creation, because before it existed you gave us a truer Word, which is Nature itself, and the text contradicts what we can observe.

"I did not believe that this text was Your Word as to matters of fact, because it contradicts itself, and that would make You a liar.

"I did not trust that this text was Your Word, because as plainly read in the text You lied to Adam and Eve, while the Serpent told the truth, and You would not declare Yourself to be a liar.

"I did not trust that this text was Your Word, because You made us humans with minds and senses and logic and other great gifts, and not to use them would be shameful; yet those who defend the text as Your Word (as to matters of fact) claim that You created all the physical evidence we've found, from the stratified fossils, yea even to the Cosmic Background Radiation, as devices to fool and deceive us, and I would not believe You were such a Deceiver.

"If I should have trusted these dishonest and wicked men (and some women); if I should have denied my own senses in favor of scripture; if I should have trusted translations that I knew to be false; if You are indeed so cruel as to make me to suffer, and deny me partnership and love my whole life long; if You are such a Deceiver as to demand that we humans forego the use of our minds and senses which you gave us—then do with me what you will, false and evil god, for I would rather spend eternity in Hell with other good people than one minute in Heaven with you."
That's what I'd say, in the unlikely event such a thing happened. And btw my capitalization is exactly as I intended it to be.

That's what goes through my mind every time I question my faith. Bottom line is, MEN wrote the bible. Hetrosexual, old fasioned, MEN of the past. That says quite a bit on it's own, I believe. Even if it was God that told them what to say or we supposed to take their word for it?

The worst thing about religion is so much bad comes out of it. One of the things that upsets me the most is The Mormons and their polygamy. It's not even the degrading of the women, but don't get me started on the children and teens in Utah and Arizona with their arranged marriages and what not. I'm serious too, if there's anything i'm educated about and can actually debate and argue, it's The Morman religion. ><

Enough ranting from me. Bible thumpers drive me away from God, and then I struggle with myself to rekindle my faith in him again. I just wish God would make some HUGE introduction in modern day time on our planet and just give us a shot. If he truly does exist and watches over everything, he must be the most intellegent being out of all of us and hopefully not closed minded.

Edit: That was post 1,000. Sweeet.....

Excellent post. That pretty much sums up my opinion about Christianity, but in a much nicer way then I could say it.

 

[Flag]

I can't even express the amount of retardation you all are spouting. It's quite comedic to see such a large group of mentally challenged inbred failures. Keep Christian bashing, it's cute but not longer worth my time. I figured some people would be worth going back and forth with, but I was very wrong. Just another group of ignorant individuals who believe "If I can't see it, it's not real" and have absolutely no regard for others' beliefs or possess tact.

Actually, I don't believe in god because he doesn't exist. Simple as. If your god existed, he'd be punishing you for breaking the hypocritical teachings in the bible. To put it simple, the only thing Christianity/Catholicism is, is simply: BUSINESS. They used the invisible man to sell hundreds of millions of copies of the bible, have people donate money to church, and on top of that, ALL THE INCOME OF THE CHURCH IS NOT TAXED. Now, while the people who made up the 10 commandments couldn't foresee it, they certainly knew it'd be enough to control everyone (A political tool to make the masses sheep to their Shepard crooks).

Give me hard evidence of Moses being handed the 'god-given' commandments. Give me hard evidence of him doing one god damn thing. Try to replace the definition of 'luck' with 'miracle' all you want. It doesn't work. I also find it very hard to believe that you're a model sheep (And by sheep I mean Christian) since you don't even follow its basic principles (I.E. the bible clearly states homosexuality is against its principles, but yet you're all for it. Also how you blindly throw out the 'inbred' card. Well, what do you think Adam and Eve's children did? Inbreed.)

I seriously laughed until tears.
Have you never heard of hate speech? Stop trying to sound intelligent if such a simple concept escapes you.
You can say anything... as long as it doesn't in any way offend any minority.
Saying any race, religion, or sexual preference slang term is HATE SPEECH and will get you SUED.
New York City. NIG.GER is against the LAW to say. It's a "banned word". Look it up scholar.

So the moron who throws around insults is bitching about hate speech? Don't make me laugh. But then again, all Christianity/Catholicism is, is a giant hypocritical soup. I don't know which is more guilty of that; the government or religion.

And for this "master of interpretation" I'll simply put I'm not pro "homo hating" in any way shape or form. I'm actually very FOR most gay rights and support the movements. I simply feel no group should be above another. Minority or majority, all "hate speech" is hateful. Either enforce it all, or none.

Read above comment about hating homosexuals.

To make it simple for those who are obviously too stupid to understand most of what was said?
Being offended isn't just for minorities. Get off your high horses on how amazing you are and recognize other people think differently than you do.
I'm done with this thread. Beliefs cannot be changed by words, and the ignorant beliefs here aren't worth any more of them.

Right back at you. Get off your fucking god horse and also realize it's OUR FUCKING CHOICE to not believe in your god. I'm bashing your right to opinion because you bashed ours. It's a little thing called "Eye for an eye", the best decree ever made (Thank you, Babylon).

I believe you know where the door is. Don't let it hit your invisible god on the way out.

 

[Amz]

Although personaly I don't believe in Christianity or any other religion for that matter, still makes me think there has to be a "creator" a kid in another dimension on ms paint w/e idc what hypothesis people come up with, I just find it hard to believe that a substance called "Dark matter" started us all. Again there is no proof of this substance yet people rely on this thing existing just to explain how we all came about....

OUT of many hypothesis I would personaly choose Dark matter over some guy with a really long white beard moulding people out of clay...In his own image.

Yet, to each their own. I would never bash someone because of their beliefs, however wrong I personaly may think it is. Not that I think its wrong.

 

[Stine]

And we have discovered once again that the subject of religion isn't easy to discuss in a civilized manner. XD I'm a Christian and it doesn't make sense not to belive in God but everyone has their own reasons why they do or do not. No matter what you believe it is nice to respect each others' views. If more people did the world would be a better place.

OT: I've seen these types of dolls and action figures in the local Christian bookstore. I'm a Christian and I feel kind of weird about them. I can see the toys for toddlers with Noah and his ark but it's weird seeing a Jesus toy when you know that some kid will be bashing it on a table or something.

 

[Shuhya]

And we have discovered once again that the subject of religion isn't easy to discuss in a civilized manner. XD I'm a Christian and it doesn't make sense not to belive in God but everyone has their own reasons why they do or do not. No matter what you believe it is nice to respect each others' views. If more people did the world would be a better place.

OT: I've seen these types of dolls and action figures in the local Christian bookstore. I'm a Christian and I feel kind of weird about them. I can see the toys for toddlers with Noah and his ark but it's weird seeing a Jesus toy when you know that some kid will be bashing it on a table or something.

Well said Stine.

 

[Olrox]

I'm just gonna do what a real christian would in this situation, Love Thy Neighbor.. RATE UP for bela! Jesus loves everyone!

 

[Rips]

My neighbor is HOT. Will love anytime.

 

[Uzor]

Although personaly I don't believe in Christianity or any other religion for that matter, still makes me think there has to be a "creator" a kid in another dimension on ms paint w/e idc what hypothesis people come up with, I just find it hard to believe that a substance called "Dark matter" started us all. Again there is no proof of this substance yet people rely on this thing existing just to explain how we all came about....

OUT of many hypothesis I would personaly choose Dark matter over some guy with a really long white beard moulding people out of clay...In his own image.

Yet, to each their own. I would never bash someone because of their beliefs, however wrong I personaly may think it is. Not that I think its wrong.

Dark Matter didn't start it all. Dark Matter were created at the same time all other matter were created.


Speaking of which, no, there is no proof of Dark Matter. There is no proof of a lot of things, like nothing being able to move faster then the speed of light, or that we're not all living in a dream ala Matrix. However, through observation (which is what Science is based on, observation), Dark Matter has been found. No, there's no proof of it as it is invisible, but you can still observe it due to its influence on nearby matter and light. Not all very different from the wind blowing. No, you can't see the wind with your eyes, but you can still observe it.

Gravity from stars and other galaxies bend the light, creating a lens effect as it distorts the objects behind them. By studying distant galaxies, you can observe Dark Matter, as it distorts objects behind the galaxy. While yes, the galaxy itself would distort the light, the light is distorted more than its total mass normally would. This phenomenon is Dark Matter. Only 4% of the total matter in universe is believed to be visible matter, while 23% is Dark Matter, and the remaining 73% is Dark Energy.

Another "proof", and I put it in quotes as its not proof, it is an observation, as science is based on observation and theories, and all so-called proof isn't actually proof, but only observations supporting a theory or a claim. Anyway, the other proof is that the normal matter would move apart from each other at a faster rate than it is now, so there must be something else that holds it together. Through observation, and making a 3D map of where Dark Matter is placed, scientists have discovered that Dark Matter clumps together in to large clouds, to which normal matter stick. One could say that Dark Matter is the skeleton of our universe.

So no, while Dark Matter is not proved, it has been observed on numerous occasions.

God, on the other hand, has not been observed on ANY occasion, unless you consider the results the birth of our universe and evolution as observing him, or rather, his work.

So, Bela, would you mind giving me a good reason why God would exist, when we can't observe him in any way possible? We can observe the wind, which can not be seen, we can observe Dark Matter, which can not be seen. We can observe gravity, which we can not see. We can observe radiation, which can not be seen. We can observe radio frequencies, sound waves, and a lot of things that we can't see, and yet you claim that we don't think things we can not see exists. All of these things can't be seen, but can still be observed. God can neither be seen nor observed. I do find it rather hard to believe in something that have no impact on my life, nor can be neither seen or observed anywhere in the world.

Unless God is all of these things, in which case we simply chose to call him by a different name. In which case you have no right to insult is by calling us inbred retards etc.

 

[Flag]

Unless God is all of these things, in which case we simply chose to call him by a different name. In which case you have no right to insult is by calling us inbred retards etc.

That name being luck. Us existing is just luck, lol. The fact that organisms evolved the exact right way is pretty good proof of that. >_>

 

[Amz]

Dark Matter didn't start it all. Dark Matter were created at the same time all other matter were created.


Speaking of which, no, there is no proof of Dark Matter. There is no proof of a lot of things, like nothing being able to move faster then the speed of light, or that we're not all living in a dream ala Matrix. However, through observation (which is what Science is based on, observation), Dark Matter has been found. No, there's no proof of it as it is invisible, but you can still observe it due to its influence on nearby matter and light. Not all very different from the wind blowing. No, you can't see the wind with your eyes, but you can still observe it.

Gravity from stars and other galaxies bend the light, creating a lens effect as it distorts the objects behind them. By studying distant galaxies, you can observe Dark Matter, as it distorts objects behind the galaxy. While yes, the galaxy itself would distort the light, the light is distorted more than its total mass normally would. This phenomenon is Dark Matter. Only 4% of the total matter in universe is believed to be visible matter, while 23% is Dark Matter, and the remaining 73% is Dark Energy.

Another "proof", and I put it in quotes as its not proof, it is an observation, as science is based on observation and theories, and all so-called proof isn't actually proof, but only observations supporting a theory or a claim. Anyway, the other proof is that the normal matter would move apart from each other at a faster rate than it is now, so there must be something else that holds it together. Through observation, and making a 3D map of where Dark Matter is placed, scientists have discovered that Dark Matter clumps together in to large clouds, to which normal matter stick. One could say that Dark Matter is the skeleton of our universe.

So no, while Dark Matter is not proved, it has been observed on numerous occasions.

God, on the other hand, has not been observed on ANY occasion, unless you consider the results the birth of our universe and evolution as observing him, or rather, his work.

So, Bela, would you mind giving me a good reason why God would exist, when we can't observe him in any way possible? We can observe the wind, which can not be seen, we can observe Dark Matter, which can not be seen. We can observe gravity, which we can not see. We can observe radiation, which can not be seen. We can observe radio frequencies, sound waves, and a lot of things that we can't see, and yet you claim that we don't think things we can not see exists. All of these things can't be seen, but can still be observed. God can neither be seen nor observed. I do find it rather hard to believe in something that have no impact on my life, nor can be neither seen or observed anywhere in the world.

Unless God is all of these things, in which case we simply chose to call him by a different name. In which case you have no right to insult is by calling us inbred retards etc.

At first I thought "Oh dear here we go.." but I freakin' love this reply!

 

[Flag]

Likewise.

 

[Uzor]

Well, theoretically its not really luck. You have a conscious, so you'd exist somewhere that allows you to have a conscious either way. Its hard to explain, so I hope that's enough of an explanation. You're lucky that you're not born in a family that tortures you and rapes you, but you can't say you're exactly lucky to be alive in the same way. Life isn't really luck, really. If you roll a dice an unlimited amount of times, you're bound to roll a six sometime. That's not luck when you finally do roll it. Given an unlimited amount of time and different conditions and situations, there's bound to be at least one planet that could hold a life form. An unlimited amount of these planets being created, at least one of them is bound to hold life.

So no, I can't agree that its luck. Nature is adaptable, it changes and evolves to fit the current conditions. It can adjust to fit even the most extreme conditions, and so can life. Organisms don't need to evolve the exact right way. It works the same way. Create an unlimited amount of organisms, at least one of them is bound to be a success. Its evolution, survival of the fittest. The one that can survive in the current conditions the best will survive the best and spread its genes forward. If you play poker and can change your cards until you're happy with your current hand, you're not lucky if you get a Royal Flush.

 

[Flag]

That's true, but with everything comes rules and laws to it. Like, one can say "I want to jump out of this plane and see if I can survive without a parachute", you can say that if you made that same jump as many times as you wanted until you didn't die, it wouldn't count because that'd be breaking the rules of nature (time travel, and idc if any of you guys believe Einstein, I think time travel is impossible).
You're right that it isn't all luck dependent, but you have to look deeper. Everything is a "game" of chance. While I don't disagree with you, I think everything in this world is based upon three things: luck, laws of nature (Natural selection and all that stuff), and karma. That's my "religion", and it's all I need to live.

 

[Uzor]

Well, I could delve deeper in to the subject of luck and what I'd consider luck/bad luck (I already wrote a long post about it some time ago), but that's neither here nor there

 

[Flag]

The only thing luck kinda falls short on is the deeper ideas of chance. It's its only real restriction, being, that everything technically has either 100% or 0% chance of happening, given the calculation of all the variables present.