I just wanted to say...

Maybe because I am not directly involved with these people anymore it makes it easier for me to formulate responses without emotions or spite getting in the way.

Besides, Nogara also keeps the debate on a mature level, doesn't try to force his opinions as fact and listens to the arguements brought by the other sides or at least gives the impression he does.
This also makes debating my points of view with him worth my time.
 
You assume people use real money in order to finance there bot. Most financed by selling gil to a person for the money then using that money for the bot. So only thing most shells waste is the time it took to get the gil. Which is gain 10 fold because of the claims they can get with the bot assuming bot don't suck.

There is no grass on the other side anymore every server and I do mean every has a shell the runs hnm camps because they have a bot most have 2 or 3 shells with different bots. If they telling you they don't there lying.

Pos hack would be foolish and sends up red flags no intelligent person would use one. At least not on there main account. Plus most bots are only have one function (to claim) not all are as multi-functional as ffxiap was.

A body only gives what 50 mp and 1 tick refresh, there are other bodies on can get that give refresh and better stats than 50 mp. W body is good for what? I think I saw a cor use it for mp as /whm. omg you LIKE to kill hnm's but have to cheat to claim it. Must feel real good to know the only way you have a shot at it is by cheating. OMG you get gear faster? Too bad it does not make shitty players play any better. OMG LOOK MOM I GOT AN OMG E BODY!!!!!! All I had to do was lie steal and cheat!!!! OMGZ I sold gilz to rmt to pay for that SMEXY CLAIM BOT!!!!!! not like it is against ToA..... wait.... ooops.... /BANSTICK btw selling gil to make the money is still you using REAL MONEY to pay for it.

I understand this is a hard concept to understand..... SOME PEOPLE have a funny concept called honor. We do not feel the ends justify the means. So you can take your botting shit all of you who bot, and shove it up your asses. That short cut cause well EVERY big shell does is nothing but your excuse. I feel better knowing every armor I got, I EARNED. I put in the hours and the effort. I had to use real SKILL. Not let some program do the work for me. I have seen players with ELITE gear get owned by players in AH bought gear. You idiots may have gear, but it does not mean you can actually use it how it is supposed to be used. When all is said and done I can tell people I played this game being an honest player. You botters can not. As for friendship~ MY friends in my shells have helped me and others be it giving away free pcc and erase back when erase was 1 mil+, to redoing countless CoP back when it took skill just to get past the crags. Running Salvage to get them that last armor for their Morrigan robes, to spamming KSNM so they could get those destroyers. We did not have to cheat to win. That makes our wins so much more valuable.
 
Not to justify botting is right thing to do but there is no skill involved to claim a mob. There are several factors that you must consider when trying to claim something that is about to pop.

1.) Your connection (ISP) plays a factor. If you have a really bad connection chances are you're not gonna see it pop which will pop you at a disadvantage trying to claim.

2.) When a zone such as Dragon's Aery consists of 50-60+ people, chances are you may or may not even see it pop.

3.) Hardware plays a factor too. Not everyone plays on the same consoles. You have PS2 users, PS3 users, Xbox users, and PC users. Not all consoles will draw the mob fast enough for you to see to claim. Did you know PS2 draws the mob faster then said consoles that were mentioned above? At this day in age, PS2 are going towards being obsolete, most people by now are either playing at least a PS3/Xbox/PC, simply the graphics, sound and overall play is much better and smoother.

You can ramble all you want about using REAL skill by not cheating, I don't see how skill has to do anything with botting honestly. Lets say you bot, and your group claims, you still need the skill, proper jobs and people to still defeat the monster.

People may say oh HNM's are simple because there are other versions of it such as the KS99's and the ZNM Tier 4's. I can assure you the experience is much more intension than fighting a similiar mob in a BC like area. Considering HNM's comes around 24 hours a day for example, you never know what you will have as your support if it's out of your prime playing time. You also have other competitors watching you, waiting for you to make a mistake, sometimes even use filthy MPK tactics to make you lose, which requires alot of focus and skill to kill.

You talk about gear you earn, what if someone bought their gear, are they less worthy because they bought it? They didn't necessarily cheat. If you say yes then alot of people on this server would be considered cheating. Countless black belt items, abjurations and rare/ex gear has been sold to people by the people you are talking down upon.

One thing I do notice, some people would like to have nice End game gear, but they don't wish to be part of a HNM LS for whatever reason it may be, whether due to the amount of time and effort required, real life obligations may limit your playing availibility, or overall don't want to participate in End Game politics.

So I ask you, who are you considering the real cheaters? Who really qualifies as earning their gear? Something to think about. I get tells all the time asking to buy items, rare/ex items that would require camping HNM's, should they be on the wall of shame? hmmmm
 
Honestly I didn't think I would ever see tony come out defending botting honestly.
 

Don't Bot?!?! I know its a hard concept, but there are people that play that don't need to use any kind of bots...

Hell, if Vanq AND you guys didnt bot, it would be a much better server...

I'm just saying...

Not to justify botting is right thing to do but there is no skill involved to claim a mob.

LOL of course there is skill, but you all just have to make sure you got claim. Just gotta make sure the claimbot is working ya???
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You might want to read Post #48 in this thread. I did.

He's referring to a now-deleted, way-across-the-line insult aimed at someone's real life, as opposed to their online one. The timeline is relevant to the discussion, making cracks about someone's real family life is not.
 
Not to justify botting is right thing to do but there is no skill involved to claim a mob. There are several factors that you must consider when trying to claim something that is about to pop.

1.) Your connection (ISP) plays a factor. If you have a really bad connection chances are you're not gonna see it pop which will pop you at a disadvantage trying to claim.

2.) When a zone such as Dragon's Aery consists of 50-60+ people, chances are you may or may not even see it pop.

3.) Hardware plays a factor too. Not everyone plays on the same consoles. You have PS2 users, PS3 users, Xbox users, and PC users. Not all consoles will draw the mob fast enough for you to see to claim. Did you know PS2 draws the mob faster then said consoles that were mentioned above? At this day in age, PS2 are going towards being obsolete, most people by now are either playing at least a PS3/Xbox/PC, simply the graphics, sound and overall play is much better and smoother.

You can ramble all you want about using REAL skill by not cheating, I don't see how skill has to do anything with botting honestly. Lets say you bot, and your group claims, you still need the skill, proper jobs and people to still defeat the monster.

People may say oh HNM's are simple because there are other versions of it such as the KS99's and the ZNM Tier 4's. I can assure you the experience is much more intension than fighting a similiar mob in a BC like area. Considering HNM's comes around 24 hours a day for example, you never know what you will have as your support if it's out of your prime playing time. You also have other competitors watching you, waiting for you to make a mistake, sometimes even use filthy MPK tactics to make you lose, which requires alot of focus and skill to kill.

You talk about gear you earn, what if someone bought their gear, are they less worthy because they bought it? They didn't necessarily cheat. If you say yes then alot of people on this server would be considered cheating. Countless black belt items, abjurations and rare/ex gear has been sold to people by the people you are talking down upon.

One thing I do notice, some people would like to have nice End game gear, but they don't wish to be part of a HNM LS for whatever reason it may be, whether due to the amount of time and effort required, real life obligations may limit your playing availibility, or overall don't want to participate in End Game politics.

So I ask you, who are you considering the real cheaters? Who really qualifies as earning their gear? Something to think about. I get tells all the time asking to buy items, rare/ex items that would require camping HNM's, should they be on the wall of shame? hmmmm

There's one flaw in your points. A ps2 shouldn't be rendering faster than a current gen console or an up to date PC as xbox, ps3, and an up to date PC should have more processing power than a PS2. The problem with an over-loaded Aery is the cap on what a player can see in a given area/radius which the PS2 should be far less in regards to the amount of what people can see. That isn't the ISP problem. The ISP problem comes into if you target it the moment it spawns and you lag on your provoke/whatever to only lose claim that way.

Although you may be right as I didn't have Vista before I retired that a PS2 might be processing better than FFXI on a Vista because of compatibility issues.
 
Don't Bot?!?! I know its a hard concept, but there are people that play that don't need to use any kind of bots...

Hell, if Vanq AND you guys didnt bot, it would be a much better server...

I'm just saying...

Just Wondering how would it be a better server?
 
As much as people try to avoid the topic, if you are camping hnms day in and day out, you're either really successful in life such that you have no daily obligations whatsoever, or you're a parasite to society, whether the burden is on your family or a broader community. I don't think people can really deny this.

Statistically speaking, it's more likely these hardcore hnm campers are the latter. The +++++rdly attitude of trying to get what they can by all means possible seems to back that observation too...

Go out into the real world and see what it's really like to earn things, kids. Once you're there, you'll learn to enjoy games as a pastime, not a vicarious alternate life where you can live in the comfort of having cheats giving you an advantage over others. You'll probably learn to respect other people's time in the said pastime too.
 
LOL a Server Jump LS comes to our Server to fight a Inside-LS-War,tells us the LS Drama and noone really cares,thats ridiculous,it's just a Videogame....nothing else^^
 
Everyone who wanted a fair shot at HNMs would /have/ a fair shot, not just the selected few who have justified to themselves that it is ok to cheat in an MMO.

There would never be a fair shot really, I was on phoenix when the great salvage bans came down. The aery hit almost 400 people, most barely even ever saw fafnir pop, the server would have as much or more drama with more people getting pissed saying he bots even if there was none. This is a game where people will never truly get along.
 
There would never be a fair shot really, I was on phoenix when the great salvage bans came down. The aery hit almost 400 people, most barely even ever saw fafnir pop, the server would have as much or more drama with more people getting pissed saying he bots even if there was none. This is a game where people will never truly get along.

And when the salvage bans hit Quetz, there were only a small handful of shells that would camp kings. There will always be people accusing each other of cheating, but when we have shells openly saying "Yeah, we bought a bot, and when it crashed, we bought another bot" it's no longer baseless accusation but literally "They bot."

I still blame Amerie for it all, honestly. There was a BG thread where people asked for shots of unclaimed NMs and she posted a fucking unclaimed Faf shot with "Yeah, Quetz is basically free range." Tinfoil hat goes on when I say that the whole damned thread was probably to bait someone into going "lawl, unclaimed HNMs on this server" and the dope fell for it.
 
Just Wondering how would it be a better server?

Believe it or not some people just don't want to bot at a video game and if your rival linkshells are botting then your pretty much fucked if you don't. What I'm saying is more people would do HNM endgame and enjoy it if there were no botters, except of course the people who need a botting advantage to enjoy the game but hey fuck em'.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree on the difference between "repeat" and "post", then.

You are beyond stupid. Good grief.
 
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