I was defeated 48 times by Absolute Virtue...

Hmkiroko said:
Well? How is that not an accurate depiction of what happened on Tuesday? Besides, you missed the key point, which was:
a strategy could have been devised between each of the shells to attempt to kill.

How does that quote condone stealing of any kind whatsoever? I'm a firm believer of teamwork, and this could have been a situation where it potentially could be used.
Click to expand...

So this means this applies to everything, including your "attempt". Right?
 
Darkfalcon said:
So this means this applies to everything, including your "attempt". Right?
Click to expand...

If you call me watching as everyone died an attempt, and Anderoc jokingly claiming a Wynav, then I guess the answer is yes?

When we get to this point in Sea, if we need help, I will ask for it. I will gladly reward whichever shell helps us with an item or items which they can choose to do whatever with. If it's a double-standard you are worried about, it will not happen.
 
Hmkiroko said:
Well? How is that not an accurate depiction of what happened on Tuesday? Besides, you missed the key point, which was:
a strategy could have been devised between each of the shells to attempt to kill.

How does that quote condone stealing of any kind whatsoever? I'm a firm believer of teamwork, and this could have been a situation where it potentially could be used.
Click to expand...
I didnt say condone. I said it was the first thing to come to mind. A) your telling us we should pop it in NA prime time. When more of each Ls is on. B) there where plenty of people up there that night to make a decent attempt, there where people from all the major NA ls and even couple shells never seen before. C) Given the treatment that are shell has been given and past quez. events. Lets just say Im not warm and bubbley of poping this guy in NA prime time since that post.

ALso the whole union thing has been debated, flamed, debated agian, then flamed agian.


http://www.qcdn.org/showthread.php?t=26998

http://www.qcdn.org/showthread.php?t=27112
 
Hmkiroko said:
If you call me watching as everyone died an attempt, and Anderoc jokingly claiming a Wynav, then I guess the answer is yes?

When we get to this point in Sea, if we need help, I will ask for it. I will gladly reward whichever shell helps us with an item or items which they can choose to do whatever with. If it's a double-standard you are worried about, it will not happen.
Click to expand...
also you do know that it have a very very small item drop list. About same size as kirin
 
54 people can't kill AV either. The only way you can possibly kill AV ever, is if you lock 2-hours and abilities. And since no one knows how to do that, its about luck. While yes, you could constantly throw people on him by kicking dead people and swapping in living members all day with 54 people, but you still won't kill him unless you're lucky enough to lock 2-hours and spells.

And even when his spells and abilities are locked, he's no pushover. Even the most experienced LS's usually have several relic weapons within the LS, and throw Kraken DRK's and Ridill WAR's at him, and manaburn him with every BLM in the shell.
 
You are totally missing the point here.

Hellstorm said:
ALso the whole union thing has been debated, flamed, debated agian, then flamed agian.


http://www.qcdn.org/showthread.php?t=26998

http://www.qcdn.org/showthread.php?t=27112
Click to expand...

All I got from those posts was:
A United End-Game shell proposal was shot down, and that alot of people were UNSURE about what the hell they were voting on.

I'm just asking for standard rules to be put in place, that everyone agrees to, governing team-ups only(if people so choose to have them).

Regardless of the loot pool size (AV's max is 7 items), here's what I'd really like to see happen.
Choose how many items each of the helping shells are entitled to. This would be commensurate to the amount of members were helping, and who farmed the pop set.
Have one representative from the shell within the main alliance choose one item to lot on.
If the item is contested (two or more shells want it), /random for the right to lot it.
Continue until everyone knows which item they are getting.
The reps from each shell, choose who from their shell, will be attaining the item (through whatever system is in place on their end). Get those people within the main alliance to lot.
People lot on their item.
Item's drop.
Everyone's happy.

Is that too unreasonable or am I misjudging the condition of the server?
 
Uzor said:
54 people can't kill AV either. The only way you can possibly kill AV ever, is if you lock 2-hours and abilities. And since no one knows how to do that, its about luck. While yes, you could constantly throw people on him by kicking dead people and swapping in living members all day with 54 people, but you still won't kill him unless you're lucky enough to lock 2-hours and spells.

And even when his spells and abilities are locked, he's no pushover. Even the most experienced LS's usually have several relic weapons within the LS, and throw Kraken DRK's and Ridill WAR's at him, and manaburn him with every BLM in the shell.
Click to expand...

It is true that your saying. It can be possible. Maybe a alliance of summoners can defeat this. Or i can be wrong.
 
Hmkiroko said:
You are totally missing the point here.



All I got from those posts was:
A United End-Game shell proposal was shot down, and that alot of people were UNSURE about what the hell they were voting on.

I'm just asking for standard rules to be put in place, that everyone agrees to, governing team-ups only(if people so choose to have them).

Regardless of the loot pool size (AV's max is 7 items), here's what I'd really like to see happen.
Choose how many items each of the helping shells are entitled to. This would be commensurate to the amount of members were helping, and who farmed the pop set.
Have one representative from the shell within the main alliance choose one item to lot on.
If the item is contested (two or more shells want it), /random for the right to lot it.
Continue until everyone knows which item they are getting.
The reps from each shell, choose who from their shell, will be attaining the item (through whatever system is in place on their end). Get those people within the main alliance to lot.
People lot on their item.
Item's drop.
Everyone's happy.

Is that too unreasonable or am I misjudging the condition of the server?
Click to expand...
I whould say choice B. Everything you said, has been said before most of it by me. Im just tryin save you the grief.
 
Juvenile said:
AV is commonly killed now on multiple servers, carry on.
Click to expand...

If you count maybe once a month across all 32 servers as common, then yes.
 
hellstorm said:
I whould say choice B. Everything you said, has been said before most of it by me. Im just tryin save you the grief.
Click to expand...


Just a hunch, but maybe your particular presentation didn't make the idea sound very appealing. I read ideas coming from people in this thread with good attitudes and a strong head on their shoulders and it seems much more realistic.
 
Let the arguing die already! We went there tues with the intention to pop love and kill him. We did that. Alot of people think that kaizen is the only linkshell to accomplish anything; thinking they are the only ones who can take out AV. There are many people who have done the things they do all the time; even before them. I have fought JoL before kaizen even started doing tier 2 jailers. Who cares. Saying Kaizen is the only linkshell who will be able to kill him is stupid. The only way to kill him is to luck out and lock is 2hrs; abilities; and spells. We will popping him again friday earlier this time and we are expecting AV this time. And yes this time if he pops we will have an attempt at him.
 
Zoolander said:
You guys are putting too much emphasis on numbers against these mobs. You can farm and kill anything in sea except for JoL (semi debatable anyway) with 18 or even less for most. Throwing alot of bodies at HNMs is not how you get the job done.

Also take a step back, and educate yourselves on how AV has died. I think you will be suprised by how many times the words luck, glitch, etc are thrown around. 30 ppl is enough for AV, shit only 18 can engage at once.

As for...



IDK about the others, but I'd ask you to let the 54 members of Perseverance decide what we can and cannot do, and you sir, are not one of them.

Same thing was said about how we should all team up to kill Vrtra! No one can do it alone so lets all team up! Then kaizen killed him by themselves. JDA has done it. We'll get there. These "alliances" dont work because they aren't needed. Most LSs that are farming sea have the numbers to potentially get luck to lock him. Its about having a plan and executing it. It will happen eventually.
Click to expand...

While I do realize the fact that you may feel it necessary to "put me in my place" (as you felt you needed to do the last time I posted), it doesn't quite work, Zoolander.

Alot of you seem to overlook the fact of what I said.

In a nutshell. What I said was that you all can debate this all you want, but no linkshell would've been able to kill AV that night.

Perseverance has approximately 54 members... So...? Your point is?

How many of them have Sea? Moreover, how many of them have the time to spare to do something like this?

And with your statement, you make it sound like I was unaware of the fact that I used to be a member of Perseverance, all the way from the "RevolutionaryESP" days. Now, provided with the fact that the initial shell "RevolutionaryESP" has been long since broken (far more than a year), that would give me (or anyone else) enough time to get a "sense" of how everyone plays. I have plenty of friends in Kaizen and I know how they play. NotoriusHunters... OuterHeaven... BloodOfLegends... ThousandSwords... (Then again, so does everyone, right? So what difference does that make.)

And the stuff you've heard on QCDN over the years via the general discussion board, good times board, and even the flameboard, when it was still around.

Then there's the things you hear that go on both inside and outside of the linkshell. Well... more like "all linkshells". Or people "reporting" on (LS Name) going up against (HNM Name).

I know it's irrelevant now. But the point is that every single one of us have been playing FFXI for quite some time. And when you play for that long, everyone begins to "know" one another, and you begin to build a sense of what to expect out of one another.

... What I wonder is...

As many times as "Perseverance" has been mentioned in this thread. And various conflicting topics going FAR beyond my initial post. Why dig back a few pages, single me out, and reply to me just for saying "Perseverance"? Or was it something else?

Nevermind... I'm not going to get into that with you, Zoolander.

You may be feeling a sense of "Team Pride" and feel it necessary to defend your LinkShell's honor from me (Even though I think that's a wasted effort. Even for my OWN Linkshell. I wouldn't defend Antares if the linkshell, as a whole, did something wrong). But let me assure you that you don't have anything to "fear" from me.

And I apologize for getting on such a "touchy subject" and stepping on a few toes. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm being quite sincere. I apologize to those who feel so adamant about matters such as this.

Just as I have friends in Kaizen, Antares, and Integralis. I also have friends in Perseverance (As does everyone on Quetzalcoatl, I'd imagine. I'm not the only one; other people can attest to that. That just goes to show you how "intergrated" Quetzalcoatl is as a Server and a Community).

Heck, some Perseverance members were even Raising me and lending a hand at Jailer of Love and Absolute Virtue that night.

And you know what? Out of all the Linkshells that were there that night, I didn't see Perseverance try to steal even ONCE. And I respect them for that. So really, if you think I'm "flaming" you, you're definitely mistaken.

If you read back to what I said, I said that no LS would've been able to kill AV on that particular night.

Really, you can't even put Absolute Virtue in the same bracket as your Vrtras, your Jormungands, or your Tiamats. Since when does Vrtra summon three Wyverns, do Invincible, tell her Wyvern to use Flame Breath--killing 15 people in an 18-person Alliance, then Run faster than a THF using Flee all the way across the zone, come back, do Aeroga IV, kill some MORE people, then do Chainspell, and follow up with Meteor--killing EVERYBODY.

Not once would Vrtra do something like that...

Absolute Virtue is a whole new ball game, Sonny Jim!

...

I agree--In order to kill Absolute Virtue, there needs to be:

...Coordination
......Cooperation
.........And Synchronization!

Which is what EVERY linkshell was lacking that night. Even my own--Antares. Which is why I said nobody was ready for it. The proof was right there for everyone to see. Everyone, not just Antares, was dying and wiping. Heck, Chasym's video will show you that. See for yourself.

I'll stress it again:

I NEVER said that "Nobody on Quetz can kill AV", I simply said that "Nobody was ready for it at that time".

I have no doubt in my mind that AV will be killed and the day will be won at some point. But it isn't anytime soon--I can tell you that.

For one, AV spawns too infrequently to try to plan a specific day where you "know" he's going to pop.

two, nobody has a set strategy for him. As was stated earlier, in reports regarding AV's death, the words "Fluke", "Glitch", "Exploit" or "Wall Trick" pops up regularly.

And three, ... Even for an HNM... After seeing him in action, you have to admit that he fights pretty fiercely. Access to all two-hours and an insane Regen... Three Wynavs in tow... And runs at a very fast rate, to boot.

...

Everyone just needs to cool down, I think, and think of a way to resolve this. I'm not really trying to "antagonize the situation", so please do not be mistaken or take anything I say "the wrong way" (because I know that people have a tendency to do that).

I'm not trying to "get the last word", either. So please don't misintepret what I'm telling you. I just want to make sure that I'm understood by everyone and that I've gotten my point across, that's all...

I'm not a "bad guy". I'm trying to think about this as reasonably as possible, that's all.
 
Cyronae asked me to address some issues so I'll just go over those quick.

As soon as Kisada arrived to watch how the fight was going Grayswander sent Kisada a /tell saying "You know, you can get suspended for trying to steal AV." Kisada decided to be a smartass about the situation and said what you guys saw in say, something along the lines of "Hey guys, don't touch him we'll get suspended." We were merely there to watch, nothing more. And like Cyronae knew from our conversation we wouldn't even think of engaging him without her call.

Very cool that he popped for you guys and I wish all of you the best of luck on your next attempt.
 
aileronrush said:
Actually it was Kisada who said in say-mode how people in your own shell wanted to steal it but he was supposedly holding them back. Dozens of people saw him say it about your own shell. What are your thoughts on that Neo? Were there people really suggesting that Kaizen's steal AV that night? Or was that Kisada living up to his reputation? Now I am going to play devil's advocate and say that since you have Francheska along for the ride that that might be true. Think back to the infamous "OH steals BoL's Kirin" thread thanks to good ole Fran's provoke so it could get a shot at an osode. But personally Kisada; you need to start realizing that you should be "seen" rather than "heard" in many situations as your tact compares to Prophecy’s own rantings.

Now I have been speaking with Meastoso for quite some time about the challenges in Sea. And we are both supportive about our 2 shells work. I have even extended an offer to help Kaizen with Love pops should they ever need it. Even when AV popped he asked if we would allow them a shot at it provided we gave up. That shows respect and maturity among players and Meastoso should be commended for that and should be representing Kaizen in this thread rather than having incomplete information.
Click to expand...

it's amazing how poorly misinterpreted things can go when you don't know the full story. i find it interesting that you're the one who is preaching against "incomplete information."

since it was just one of your monkeys accusing me of coming to steal it, and threatening to have me suspended, i'm just gonna assume you didn't know what he said. and yeah i said something smart-ass, cause the tell grayswander sent to me was hilarious and i took it as such. i told the ls what he said, and we spent 10 seconds on it, 9 of which were laughing. of course i was gonna reply to him, cause i couldn't believe he'd said something so insanely retarded. i said something like "guys, don't go stealing AV or you'll get suspended, cause the grayswander police is on patrol." hmkiroko was the only one to reply and who understood it. you guys were seriously busy with AV, so my mistake for expecting you to detect my sarcastic comment.

i never said that we wanted to steal it. i also never said i was holding anybody back. if you think dozens of people saw me say those exact things then i'll call those dozens of people imbeciles and liars. i infact gave two members of your alliance my personal reassurances that we wouldn't touch it. meast then asked me if he should ask you about giving it up, and i declined him as i didn't want to take your rightly earned AV from you. he ended up asking of his own volition regardless. for future reference, if we were planning on taking someone's AV i'd probably ask em first just as meast had asked you. i say probably because i wouldn't give a damn about asking a ls that showed us utter contempt and disrespect.

as far as my tactfulness goes, however you view me is completely irrelevant to me. but don't mistake what my ls's intents are as the last thing i wanted to do was to take your AV. that's hard work, i wouldn't just allow my ls to do such a thing. if you'd prefer me "seen", rather than "heard" that's all up to you. i'd prefer that you "think" sometime and look at impartial facts and obvservations rather than making baseless assumptions. you needed to have stopped to "think" for a second to see that one unpartied ninja, a 68 smn, and a 50-ish exp-seeking rdm weren't able to steal and kill your AV. hardly a threatening force to take him down, if you couldn't tell.

either way, i don't reserve my tact for ignorance. you could actually ask any of my fellow ls mates and i'm sure you'd find them surprised i'd ever replied here, as i normally don't take the time out of my day to respond to calls of ridiculousness. unfortunately, the blithering idiocy that came out of grayswander's mouth and the resulting babble and lies i'm seeing that have been fed to you (or perhaps you were the one establishing these "facts?") really gave me enough cause to respond. i was almost gonna just post here saying i don't really give a shit, but then you compared me to prophecy and that just won't do.

if you really were so intent on establishing respect and maturity then i find it pretty incredulous for you to sit here and accuse me of saying these things that are infact based upon that "incomplete information" which you want to avoid. "think" for a second about what your monkeys feed you before you come throwing that shit all over qcdn.
 
kisada said:
it's amazing how poorly misinterpreted things can go when you don't know the full story. i find it interesting that you're the one who is preaching against "incomplete information."

since it was just one of your monkeys accusing me of coming to steal it, and threatening to have me suspended, i'm just gonna assume you didn't know what he said. and yeah i said something smart-ass, cause the tell grayswander sent to me was hilarious and i took it as such. i told the ls what he said, and we spent 10 seconds on it, 9 of which were laughing. of course i was gonna reply to him, cause i couldn't believe he'd said something so insanely retarded. i said something like "guys, don't go stealing AV or you'll get suspended, cause the grayswander police is on patrol." hmkiroko was the only one to reply and who understood it. you guys were seriously busy with AV, so my mistake for expecting you to detect my sarcastic comment.

i never said that we wanted to steal it. i also never said i was holding anybody back. if you think dozens of people saw me say those exact things then i'll call those dozens of people imbeciles and liars. i infact gave two members of your alliance my personal reassurances that we wouldn't touch it. meast then asked me if he should ask you about giving it up, and i declined him as i didn't want to take your rightly earned AV from you. he ended up asking of his own volition regardless. for future reference, if we were planning on taking someone's AV i'd probably ask em first just as meast had asked you. i say probably because i wouldn't give a damn about asking a ls that showed us utter contempt and disrespect.

as far as my tactfulness goes, however you view me is completely irrelevant to me. but don't mistake what my ls's intents are as the last thing i wanted to do was to take your AV. that's hard work, i wouldn't just allow my ls to do such a thing. if you'd prefer me "seen", rather than "heard" that's all up to you. i'd prefer that you "think" sometime and look at impartial facts and obvservations rather than making baseless assumptions. you needed to have stopped to "think" for a second to see that one unpartied ninja, a 68 smn, and a 50-ish exp-seeking rdm weren't able to steal and kill your AV. hardly a threatening force to take him down, if you couldn't tell.

either way, i don't reserve my tact for ignorance. you could actually ask any of my fellow ls mates and i'm sure you'd find them surprised i'd ever replied here, as i normally don't take the time out of my day to respond to calls of ridiculousness. unfortunately, the blithering idiocy that came out of grayswander's mouth and the resulting babble and lies i'm seeing that have been fed to you (or perhaps you were the one establishing these "facts?") really gave me enough cause to respond. i was almost gonna just post here saying i don't really give a shit, but then you compared me to prophecy and that just won't do.

if you really were so intent on establishing respect and maturity then i find it pretty incredulous for you to sit here and accuse me of saying these things that are infact based upon that "incomplete information" which you want to avoid. "think" for a second about what your monkeys feed you before you come throwing that shit all over qcdn.
Click to expand...

All I can say is... Fucking owned. Good game Kis
 
Kisada lies. He knows the truth behind AV. A NIN, 68 SMN, and 50 RDM are more than enough to tackle AV once you've performed the secret code.

Edit: That secret code obviously being run in to him as he readies the bomb to make him drop it. Guess it's not so much a code as it is a trick.
 
Last edited:
Skaw said:
Edit: That secret code obviously being run in to him as he readies the bomb to make him drop it. Guess it's not so much a code as it is a trick.
Click to expand...

The other secret is to drop-kick AV in the throat.... works everytime!
 
I'd like to begin by saying that I too find it very amusing Kisada, that you overlook the details of the situation. Do you think that I messaged you out of suspision alone? No. In fact, as you may not be aware, I did indeed receive several tells from individuals, that you planned on gathering for an attempt against our Popped AV. I of course disregarded this at first, as I have many friends in "your LS" and the idea that someone would attempt to do something so foolish was beyond me.

My focus at the time was of course, on trying to get my members in position to make a decent attempt against Absolute Virtue, not on that matter at the time. However, when you and your LS began showing up, the possibility did arise. Did I receive a tell from you, or any of your LS members that this was merely for observational purposes? No. Did I receive tells from Perservence and other LS's that not only were they here to watch and cheer us on, but also to help? Yes.

Putting two and two together, i decided it would be the "diplomatic" thing to tell you what the situation was. As you may have noted I also said to you "I mean this only as a friendly reminder." And though you may have found that to be a sarcastic remark, I assure you it was completely sincere. I have much confidence in your LS as I'm sure you do as well. I would have gone into greater detail as to why I would even bring the subject up, but your reply was "Stop Talking to me." And so I did.

Indeed, a LS had tried this on another server, and indeed their entire Alliance was suspended. If I wished your LS any harm Kisada would I have even bothered to message you? Certainly not. (Moraine and Giagantas group claimed it at one point and did I try to prevent them? No chance in hell, in fact, I relished in their hasty demise. Check out Chasysms JOL video if you would like to see.)

All in all I still have respect for you Kisada, though you may call me a fool, I call your actions that day misguided. I'm not sure if this little squabble will deteriorate cooperation between our groups in the future, but I am of the opinion it should not. If you called to our aid, Antares would be more than willing to assist you. There is no need for slander and downplay here.
 
Last edited:
XGrayswanderX said:
Indeed, a LS had tried this on another server, and indeed their entire Alliance was suspended. If I wished your LS any harm Kisada would I have even bothered to message you? Certainly not. (Moraine and Giagantas group claimed it at one point and did I try to prevent them? No chance in hell, in fact, I relished in their hasty demise. Check out Chasysms JOL video if you would like to see.)
Click to expand...

LoL hasty demise? Moraine claimed it to die and HP out of fun. I casted Burst 2 on it to see how much I could take off. No way did i think i was going to take your AV. And you say our group? It was me and moraine lol get your facts straight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top