I wish people encouraged others to have fun....

[The Druw]

You know, I really grow tired of the typical thing. Like for instance I read in a thread earlier, that a SMN is a healer, whether they like it or not. Eh, I'm pretty sure the job class is called a Summoner, and that would imply they summon, so they -shouldn't- be forced into main healer if they don't want to, let them summon, and do their thing.If a WHM isn't available, consult them first, don't tell them"hey....you're main healer" after you invite them.

I remember going to the dunes for the first time, I was leveling Greatsword. I got bitched at horribly, because I was a WAR not using a Great Axe. I don't like giant axes really....I like swords. So, I did something I thought was cool and I enjoyed, and after explaining this they still harassed me.

Why can't people just have fun? I know it doesn't make you "teh l337" but, let people have their fun, and enjoy tit with them.....

Just some random thoughts.

 

[Mattaru]

As far as the summoner thing goes:

I've been pting with Firestreak a good amount recently while he has been playing summoner, and he has shown me that a smn is very capable of being main healer. Naturally, a rdm or another /whm is very beneficial for the healing as well. With MP regen and a ridiculous mp pool (at least fires and another smn's has been, both very experienced players) they have more than enough capability to BP buffs etc. and do the brunt of the healing with very little to no DT.

If you are a SMN and do not want to do a lot of healing if it is needed (if you have a whm-thats their obvious job and I'd say let them do most of it) then I think you are not taking your job to its greatest capability.

 

[Ronith]

/agree ^^; that's very true man very true...

 

[The Druw]

....

But, you're not getting the meaning behind my post. I don't play summoner, and personally don't care.

The point is: Everyone's so busy trying to be l337 that they tend to trample on someone's fun sometimes. I just feel like people should go about it a different way.

 

[Ronith]

I get what ur saying about the stuff and i agree with you totally and since the job is summoner they should summon and about it, but the purpose of the Sub job is to allow more access and variety in a job like SMN/WHM or persay NIN/BLM in some cases DRG/DRK or DRG/PLD it just differs from person to person

and besides it is a MMO and you should be able to do what you want ^^;

all in all i agree with you Druw

 

[Phraust]

You are right. And if you want to have fun you can do it alone, your way.

The problem is, that this game is based on Team Play. and if you don't do the Optimum things, you are gimping yourself, and making yourself a liability to your group as a whole. For intstance, what if a Whm wanted to be main Nuker in the group because they enjoyed the concept of the Holy Nukes? Would you find that acceptable or appropiate? Probably not.

 

[Ronith]

You are right. And if you want to have fun you can do it alone, your way.

The problem is, that this game is based on Team Play. and if you don't do the Optimum things, you are gimping yourself, and making yourself a liability to your group as a whole. For intstance, what if a Whm wanted to be main Nuker in the group because they enjoyed the concept of the Holy Nukes? Would you find that acceptable or appropiate? Probably not.

but the WHM is known to be a f'n healer lmao, a SUMMONER is meant to do well...what's their name SUMMON SHIT, what else besides healing, I'm not saying they cant do a badass job at healing but damn let them do their own jobs, while the WHITE MAGE do their's and if the WHM doesnt know he/she's a healer by lv 11 they shouldnt be playin WHM IMO

 

[Oropher]

when i first started playing i wanted to be a MNK/WHM, so i could fight AND heal (at least myself), hey thats what I though a monk should be like. that was over a year ago, i didn't know any better.

i got to around level 25 before i could no longer find groups that would let me have my fun.

i got tired of LFG for hours with no invite and ended up leveling the standard WAR sub for my MNK.

 

[Phraust]

but the WHM is known to be a f'n healer lmao, a SUMMONER is meant to do well...what's their name SUMMON SHIT, what else besides healing, I'm not saying they cant do a badass job at healing but damn let them do their own jobs, while the WHITE MAGE do their's and if the WHM doesnt know he/she's a healer by lv 11 they shouldnt be playin WHM IMO

I was refering to more the concept that you do what's best for the group as a whole by using an exagerated case. (And was targeting his greatsword use more than the summoner comment) Personally I rarely if ever actually hear summoners complain about thier job. Granted in most cases they are NOT the main healer in my groups...

 

[Sethala]

Well, there's a few things I want to say here. First, about just "having fun": yes, this is a game, and it should be fun. But your idea of fun isn't always the same as someone else's idea of fun. To those people, you saying that you don't want to use an axe as WAR because it's "not as fun" is you putting your own goals and desires in front of the group goal - something that's not a good thing to do. It's like if a pro basketball player is a "ball hog" and never passes to the other players on his team. It may be fun for him to do that, but it's not fun for the other members of his team, and he can expect that he'll be sitting on the bench soon. Plus, everyone's probably paying money to be in that party (through food and, for some jobs, NIN tools or ranged ammo), and you slowing down the party's exp/hour rate is really hurting their money.

Why can't people just have fun? I know it doesn't make you "teh l337" but, let people have their fun, and enjoy it with them.....

The bolded part is exactly why people don't do that. It's because they -can't- enjoy it with them. Your fun doesn't equal everyone's fun.

SMNs being main healers: Oddly enough, main healer is pretty much the only party role SMNs can really do. Healing magic, unlike most other types of magic, isn't very dependant on the healing magic skill. Using SMN/BLM and trying to nuke with BLM spells is bad, because you've got a half-level Elemental skill. But using SMN/WHM and healing with WHM spells works, because a half-level Healing skill doesn't matter as much. SMN also have an insanely high MP pool (I think a hume SMN has more MP than a taru BLM of the same level - or at least, it's close), and have Auto-Refresh. Plus they get five Clear Mind traits (WHMs only get four), and each trait comes 5 levels earlier than WHM. So, that's why SMNs can be main healer. Why can't they be a summoner, then? Two reasons - one, avatars are incredibly weak, and can't even be out all the time as it's a large drain on MP. Two, the only real redeeming quality of avatars, blood pacts, can only be used once per minute. So, you've got three choices as how to play SMN: Have an avatar out and have it melee, summon an avatar to use a BP, then dismiss it and rest until it's ready again, or use your sub's spells while waiting for the BP timer to cool down. It's fairly obvious which is better.

Of course, that doesn't mean SMNs are weak. They can be as good at main healing the tank as WHM (even with a PLD tank), plus they're able to buff the party using avatar BPs. And they can MB with level 4 nukes, or they can work as a skillchain partner for every SC (at level 5, a SMN with all avatars can open or close every single SC, as long as someone else can do the other WS in it - at level 30, they can do everything with all avatars except Fenrir).

About WARs using the right weapon: at low levels, there's not much of a difference - only 2 skill points in the 'dunes. Once you get into the higher levels, however, the difference begins to be noticable. Just look at a sniper's ring and you'll see how much people pay for just a few points of accuracy - and by level 40, you're missing out on 5 accuarcy by picking the wrong weapon. Also, if you use only a greatsword right now, you'll have a very difficult time getting an axe up high enough to use when it becomes really important.

Finally, here's a few things people say about playing the game "how they want", and my replies:

"SMN shouldn't be main healer, they don't even get healing spells without a sub."
-WAR is the only job to get Provoke, does that mean PLD and NIN shouldn't be tanks? WHM and RDM both get healing skill, does that mean both should be main healer?

"I'm only using this weapon because I'm going to switch to (insert job that uses that weapon here) when I get to 30."
-And I'm sure you'll make a good (insert job here). But right now, you're not a good (job), you're a crappy WAR.

"I just want to play the game how I want to. Can't you let me do that?"
-Oh, sure I can let you play how you want. In fact, I think I'll play how I want - and I know I want to party with someone other than you. Good bye. *either disband or boot that person, depending on if I'm leader or not*

Alright, so I don't use that third one often (I never have, actually). But I've been tempted to quite a few times.

 

[masterorion]

because of the lack in whm, players have to adapt, therefore, other healers are needed. hence, the use of smn to heal instead of smn. or oven multiple rdm to heal. whm just isnt as abundant as they used to be so pts have to look for something to take its place

 

[Direwolf]

The game has very cookie cutter tactics, if you do not have X Y and Z you are wasting your time. I realy hate wasting time so I demand X Y and Z. Blame SE.

 

[Mishaela]

As grim as it sounds, the fun way isn't always the best way...or even the right way. If you're a SMN and all your do is throw out Carby in melee-mode and stand around, it may be fun to you, but to the party all you're doing is a crappy damage output (this seems to popup non-damn-stop in Dunes, which in turn makes NO ONE make a SMN -.-)

I guess, in a uber-noob sense, easy/free exp would be fun, yes, but if you be the best you can, it means better exp, safer parties, more praise, which can mean quick partying in the future. I personally find that funner than "doing my own thing" and having to spend 10h LFP the next day because of it.

Unfortunately, because of sh-!tty SMNs, I hafto do that anyways because of the neat stereotype on how SMN are a waste of space floating around.

 

[Arturus]

Phraust and Sethala made some good points so I won't belabor it any more, but I do want to add something.

There is a reason that specific jobs are geared to specific weapons, SE designed the game that way. A lot of it has to do with caps and a level of accuracy with certain weapons. If you are interested you should check out the skill level charts for the weapons, this thing helped me a ton when I was new, and was trying to figure out why people allways did certain things. For most people it is not about having others think of you as being elite, it is about playing the game with some level of strategy.

 

[Koutetsu]

when i leveled war...i never had much of a problem....at first i used sword and shield...then after seeing people using GS...i was like, those are sweet!..

So i started using GS.....no one ever complained to me....guess i was using it right....

When i am serious, i play serious...when i wanna just blow some time, i will go try a crazy combo...i ran around quifm for like an hour just kill stuff with drk/nin! it was fun!

and i am thinking i might try drk/brd just so i can be a singing deathmachine!

But...these crazy combos...i will not use and expect to get a party...so dont flame me saying

"ZOMG! Drk/Brd!!! TEH W0rstEST! NO XP 4 U!"

anyways....people should be serious when dealing with other people.....but if your gonna farm or just kill junk.....do what you want.

 

[Ronith]

but the WHM is known to be a f'n healer lmao, a SUMMONER is meant to do well...what's their name SUMMON SHIT, what else besides healing, I'm not saying they cant do a badass job at healing but damn let them do their own jobs, while the WHITE MAGE do their's and if the WHM doesnt know he/she's a healer by lv 11 they shouldnt be playin WHM IMO

I was refering to more the concept that you do what's best for the group as a whole by using an exagerated case. (And was targeting his greatsword use more than the summoner comment) Personally I rarely if ever actually hear summoners complain about thier job. Granted in most cases they are NOT the main healer in my groups...

(I see.) Sorry =/ thought that's what u were talkin about ^^;

 

[Taurothar]

I prefer to put SMN in a support/damage role in a party when the space needs filling. Yes, I've asked SMN to heal, but I do not invite them without asking first. I feel that every job has a role in a party, but can fill a few other roles. A PLD that isn't Galkan or Elvaan (even some that are) is a great backup healer in a two tank party. I've been invited to two PLD parties and I started out with the attitude "Screw this, we'll be slow" but it ended up being pretty good with me tanking most of the time and the other spent the time helping the WHM keep up. I think people should be the job that has the role they want to have fun in. There are five real roles in a party: Nuking Tanking Healing Damage and Support. All of the jobs fall into two or more categories when played effectively. Also, all jobs have two or more categories they should NEVER do. The reason for the Cookie-Cutter system is that some jobs do things with more ease than others. Every party needs a healer (even if you have two nin and never get hit, you'll eventually take damage) and every party needs a tank. The rest of the spots are filled in by whatever the situation calls for. I wish people allowed more flexing in these jobs. Most people I've known that were quitting have given me the reason that they don't have fun anymore. People need to keep up the fun in this game, and not take everything so damn serious. It's a game. But as someone said before, you don't have to do as a party asks you to do, you just need to find a party that will let you. Sometimes people have trouble thinking outside the box and comming up with *new* ideas to use in the game, and even if they don't work out, they were fun to try. If you're *that* worried about how much exp you lost and how much time you'll spend getting it back, you're not having fun and you should find something better to do with your life.

 

[Xerius]

Okay...

to the OP

So you are having fun being a "DD summoner" or whatever you want to do. you want everyone to have fun with you right? But others may not necessarily see that as enjoyable.

Okay, so what is the common goal of everyone partying? To level up right? That is what most people find fun or at least they want to. Therefore, everyone getting fast exp is a common goal that is shared amongst the party, and therefore that is why you have to play your job to achieve maximum efficiency. Do you get what i mean?

I mean, some people find having fun is more important than leveling up. That's fine too. But the other people in the party may not feel that way. Therefore if you want to have a party that is more fun than exp, you should ask or look for people and ask them whether they would have a good time and spend more time "having fun" or "talking" rather than exp. Frankly, you can't do both.

Let me try to give you an example. Let's say that you have FIVE people in your party who want to have fun and talk, overnuke, waste all your TP without skillchaining because it looks cool. The sixth person is the puller and you tell him to wait 2-3 minutes between pulls so that you can chat and you know, have some time to socialize with the party. But let's say this sixth person instead, pulls right after the mob is killed, and keeps doing so. You'll inevitably be annoyed but what if he says "well sorry killling things fast and getting lots of exp is what i want to do." Well of course you 5 funloving people would be annoyed right because he isnt doing what you guys want him to do.

SAME DEAL

Except replace funloving people with 5 people who want to exp and replace the odd one out with a person who likes to screw around. Same situation. People WILL BE PISSED if you screw around and do what they tell you NOT TO DO.

Moral of the story? If you want to have fun go ahead, go WAR/BRD or WHM/DRK for all I care, waste all your MP on -aga spells every fight. But if fun is what you are looking for, then find 5 other people who would rather have fun instead of get exp. No one is stopping you. But you expecting 5 other people who want exp to let you have your fill of fun is being
SELFISH AND UNREASONABLE.


Dont whine and say people wont let you have fun because when you party, most people want efficiency.

 

[Svina]

Basically to support Phraust's post(s).

I pt'ed this one night with a RDM/NIN who just wanted to melee with his goddamned clubs. The mobs were not even that hard, but because of him I lost 3k xp due to no heals from anyone but the WHM, who was busy healing the tank.

Idunno bout you, but I didn't join an xp party to lose xp.

 

[Hecate]

People on FFXI should be having fun, of course like everything else in life, you need to find that twisted balance between two things. In this case, having fun and being prudent. Enjoy your time on FFXI. It is a game after all. Yet don't screw up things for others, such as loosing 3k exp b/c the RDM in the party isn't doing his/her proper job. He/she DOES have mp, could have casted a couple cures at least -.-