I'm sorry to say crafters...

I think Crafters have a right to charge a fee for performing a service to some one. In fact considering that a Tele-CHARGE and D2me4aFEE is out out there, It would only be obvious that crafter charge a fee as well.
Where it goes all wrong is when the crafter wants to make up all thier lost time and gil in a single Synth. That would be like said Doctor, Lawer , Meachanic, Baker, etc... charging A single patient, client, customer an abnormal fee...

Doctor: Take These pills for a week then come back to see me next wed.
Patient: thanx doc , how much do I owe you?
Doctor: Lets see.... 12yrs Schooling, overhead, 14 years experience, 4 years of struggling through internship, golf tourney coming up ....
$195,785.32
Patient: :shock:
Doctor: Thats just for today's visit of course... :twisted:

I think a charge based on skill of the craft required is fine.
Not a charge based on the item being Synthisized.
 
Yes hunting chyme is harder than getting leather craft up
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Wow if I was anywhere near you I'd strangle you for saying that. Camping your chyme doesn't take close to 25mil out of your wallet and 2 months of your time, no sir.

I'm fairly reasonable about synthing stuff for other people... but sometimes I get the most ridiculous and selfish requests. OH I WONT SELL YOU YOUR ONLY WAY OF MAKING PROFIT BECAUSE I WANT A FREE SNIPER+1 BECAUSE I WORKED SO HARD WAH WAH WAH...gimme a fuckin break...

The crafters provide these materials using the items you camp for... 99% of the time we are not making any profit on your hard work, in most of the cases, losing money in hopes of making HQ syntheses. You are the working class that provides the crafters with materials, and we are the artisans that risk our money to bring people items they want, and possibly get a lucky HQ every once in a blue moon. On something such as your archer->sniper argument... why should I GIVE YOU a free 3mil (less the 500k for the ring). When have you given someone 3mil just for doing nothing but camping something? Are archer rings worth 3mil? My ass if they are. If you don't like the money output of archer ring camping you shouldn't camp it... you know the conditions of camping one are 500k'ish if you get the ring, and you know the ring is a shitty drop rate.

2mil for popping an HQ on a 500k ring means you got a 2.5mil sniper+1... you saved 1mil. Is that bad!? I tell people who ask me this daily that I don't give away (most) HQ items for free when they're hard to HQ or rather rare... if you want to take your chances and have it synthed, then you can risk your own materials... and since your risking your own materials, I'm willing to cut you a break on the price of the HQ. It's only fair.

Again if you don't like the way crafters think, then maybe you should take the craft up to synth it yourself, only to realize why we seem so selfish in your deluded mind here. BTW, see Tiya's sig for an idea of why we have no desire to give campers free shit like you would like us to. That happens more often than you think. I've broken many archer rings along the way, which is a 500k loss for ME, not the campers, who are guaranteed their 500k when it drops. Hell, snipers are usually a loss anyway, 20-30k loss on average.

Sorry for being an asshole, but its comments like yours that drive me up the wall. I'm sure many other crafters will agree.
 
Ok so you want to use crafters as slaves?!!! Do you have any FUCKEN idea how long it took Svina to get to lvl 100, how much fucken gil? What was the god damn point if people can turn around and make a slave of him?!!!

"Oh I do not need to lvl up a craft! I can go and buy/farm the items and have a lvl 100 craft them for me making all the gil with none of the work!" Is that your logic? That we go through all this work so lazy shits like you can use us as slaves?
 
Ha I see that Svina beat me to the flame... It was way to directed at him anyways...
 
If I got the materials on hand by someone else or by my own work I craft for people for free. It's something I can do to help. Lord knows how much money I've lost over the course of my play time.

On the other hand, getting an HQ isn't YOUR work. If you were none the wiser about what the results of the sythn were you'd be kissing this person's ass.
 
Yes i so know how to craft people i im currently in the middle of getting smithing up kinda stuck at 33 but im still working at getting it up. Ive been asked to craft things before and yes i have spent over 100k+ getting this level. But have i charged when someone needed a synth no i havnt because they took their time to get the item.

it took me almost a month to get to level 20+ in smithing because i did it the hard way by mining my ores and synthing them to iron yes this is cheap and probably didnt take any money from me since i would just sell them back.

So dont complain i craft too.

Oh and chyme thing was a joke :)
 
2mil for popping an HQ on a 500k ring means you got a 2.5mil sniper+1... you saved 1mil. Is that bad!? I tell people who ask me this daily that I don't give away (most) HQ items for free when they're hard to HQ or rather rare... if you want to take your chances and have it synthed, then you can risk your own materials... and since your risking your own materials, I'm willing to cut you a break on the price of the HQ. It's only fair.
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i would say 1mil or 1.5mil (less fair but meh) i say this because arent snipers +3 or +5 and +1 is like +5 or +7. Yes i know people want you to craft for thier money maybe give tem a 1 time offer and only craft once i know that people would take advantage of you but thats the last thing i would want. But look at it this yes your basicly buying me 2 snipers but arent 2 snipers better than just a +1 and alot easier to get? Yes it is so why not charge less than 2mil then i wouldnt care as much i personally thought 2mil charge was outragoues i wouldnt of thought 1mil was that bad.
 
oraga said:
i have spent over 100k+ getting this level.
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100k is a far, far cry from 25 mil

If I were a crafter and I popped a HQ and they just asked for a NQ, I'd go buy them a NQ and keep the HQ for selling :D

Unless it was a really, really, really good freakin friend.
 
wow im shocked.. surprise nobody brought up that old saying.. Time is money, if you want to take time from me to synth you something when I can be making money, you damn well are going to tip me for NQ or HQ for that matter.
 
oraga said:
But have i charged when someone needed a synth no i havnt because they took their time to get the item.
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May I ask you what the materials for the synth costed? Did they want an HQ? what's the price of the product and hq? was this person who needed a synth someone you knew, or some random person who sent you a tell?
 
Hmm...this is what I think a business approach should be:

If the crafter provide his service for free:
- If he fails and loses the ingredients, I'll take the loss.
- If he HQ it, he can: a. find and give me a NQ one - b. charge whatever he wants for the HQ one.

If the crafter provide his service for a fee:
- If I don't want to risk losing the materials, pay an -insurance- fee that is the value of the NQ times the rate of failure (should be around 5%)
- If I want to take the HQ one, I would pay an additional amount close to(value of HQ) x (rate of HQ).

For example, if I ask Svina to craft an archer ring (500k) to sniper ring:
- If I want Svina to repay me 500k in case he fails the synth, I would pay 25k for insurance.
- If I want the HQ in case he make it, assume the HQ rate is 10%, I would pay close to 3,500,000 x 0.1 = 350k more.

Using that method, the crafter makes the same amount of money as he would if he bought his own archer rings and crafted them.

But most of them are nice and don't charge you that way ^^

You should be glad if a Leathercrafter charges you a nominal fee and offer the HQ for 2.5 mil.
 
Mishaela said:
I don't care if people wanna charge, really. If you minded it so much you'd find someone who charges less/nothing at all...


But what confuses me from crafters I've seen..
They HQ, they charge a huge "HQ difference fee".
They fail, and blow away an item, and it's "oh, tough luck".
Sorry, but I see a -small- problem with that picture, mainly the whole fact that it looks more like you're donating an item to the synther, and IF it turns out as NQ/"Junk", you get it returned, and if it HQs, they're all "What, this? Yeah, got it just a sec ago, wanna buy it?" bullcrap as if it wasn't your item.

Semi-good example -
You repair cars. If you screw up and destroy the body or something, you'd hafto pay for it. (Example of failed synth)
You repair the car, and return it. Yay. You get maybe a couple hundred dollars for it. (Example of NQ synth)
Some guy happens to pass by looking for junk cars to smash in the roadshow and is shelling out a couple thousand dollars per junky-old car for whatever reason (example of HQ synth, maybe)

Now, I know that's a bad example, but really, if the repairman (used in case to be the synther) got some stroke of luck that allowed him to sell this thing that wasn't his, he could, and make a lot more, even though all of that money should be the original owner.

I'm terrible at explanations, but the point I'm trying to make is - the item isn't yours. Yes, they should pay for your services. No, you shouldn't get to overcharge them or crap if you do better than expected. Yes, you should pay for the item if you send it to hell.
Don't care who this pisses off or whatever, it's my point of view, nomatter how stupid it seems..
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I would have to say I very much agree with this staement. :D
 
here's my take on it... its funny because I was talking to an LS member about this very thing.

The person is providing you with the materials to craft the item for them... sometimes those items are DAMN expensive, like for elemental staves and what not. Often times, the ingrediants for the synth cost more than the NQ version... so... why ask someone to synth an item with materials that cost MORE than the going rate in the AH if you aren't hoping for getting an HQ out of the cost of materials?

So then if the crafter gets and HQ and tells the person they were synthing for, "Oh sorry, this is HQ, you owe me 500k in addition to the 200k you paid for materials," well I'd tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.

HOWEVER, I say that if the person wanting the item can't pay for the HQ and the crafter won't give the person the HQ version unless they pay, the crafter should replace the HQ synth with an NQ synth... its not like they won't make a ton of gil off of the HQ anyway...

I don't know if my ramblings have made any sense... I'll probably read back through later and ask myself what the hell I was talking about... I just woke up ... its 12:45 PM >.>
 
By doing that deaths... you're taking away what we make for profit for your own gain. If you wanna risk it yourself you play by the crafter's rules, or you can just take your crystal and try and synth it yourself.
 
Svina said:
By doing that deaths... you're taking away what we make for profit for your own gain. If you wanna risk it yourself you play by the crafter's rules, or you can just take your crystal and try and synth it yourself.
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well like I said, I'd only have a friend or someone I trusted do it anyway, I'd just buy from the AH otherwise.
 
Daveman said:
oraga said:
But have i charged when someone needed a synth no i havnt because they took their time to get the item.
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May I ask you what the materials for the synth costed? Did they want an HQ? what's the price of the product and hq? was this person who needed a synth someone you knew, or some random person who sent you a tell?
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They were shouting for a lower level smith who could craft a item they bought me materials yes it was a random person i synthed and provided some crystals which i didnt need. They were fairly cheap synths but i forgot what they were crafting them into. Basicly needed me to craft something for he or she could craft it into somthing else.

I have spent over 100k just i do it the easier way of taking less money other than PLing the craft i do what i feel is best.
 
I haven't read the whole thread but here's my take in a nutshell, even if it's been covered already:

YOU: want a crafter to HQ an item for you and don't want to pay because you invested time and work in getting the item.

CRAFTER: Has spent a lot of time and money leveling their craft. Probably a lot more than you spent getting whatever item that may be.

Why the hell should your time and effort be more fucking important than the crafters?

ANSWER: It isn't, stop being so self important.
 
Svinas cool in my book, but Im going to put things into perspective real quick from a jealous clothcrafter :wink:

Either way Svina or any high level Leathercrafter (just so happens Svina is the only one i know that speaks english) you need to stop whining all the time about Leathercraft. I saw your post about the new gear and SE trying to replace Behomeths and Snipers HQs over on Alla....and lately it seems like you whine ALOT about your craft for someone whose name is on the Price History for HQ snipers quite a few times recently.


OH NOES!! It's a 30k loss to attempt a Sniper's Ring!!

1. Who's fault is that? If Im not mistaken you go along and undercut just as much as the other crafters on your NQ sellbacks. We ALL know Snipers used to be 500k and guess what? So did Archers Rings. Only the last few months since "some" people have advanced Leather have NQs dropped, your fault? Probably not, but don't complain about the sell back on NQ. So you eat a tiger leather and a crystal, gimme a fucking break.

2. Sniper's if Im not mistaken is a PURE leather synth, better chance at success, better HQ rate with only one craft involved. Not like some other big synths that require a sub craft just to fuckin NQ.

3. YOU MAKE 3 MILLION GIL ON AN HQ! If you NQ it, you lose a tiger leather and fucking crystal, if you break it you lose 500k OH NOES!
If I was a high level bonecrafter I would slap the shit out of you right now, 4 million for a main ingredient, takes 2 crafts (Bone and leather) to even have a shot at an NQ, guaranteed claw loss if broken, and if they do by some stroke of luck make one, 6-8 mil profit. Not too many crafters can neccessarily buy out 8 claws in a row every new or full moon like you leathercrafters with your "safe" synth.

Haubys, Vermilillion cloaks, etc all require ingredients that make Snipers look like chump change yet do they make 3 million if they HQ? I mean gimme a god damn break dude, you guys have it easy.

Once again, congrats on 100 and yes I am jealous of that synth, I can bite my tongue, but all this recent whining about your poor poor craft is really irritating.
 
oraga said:
They were shouting for a lower level smith who could craft a item they bought me materials yes it was a random person i synthed and provided some crystals which i didnt need. They were fairly cheap synths but i forgot what they were crafting them into. Basicly needed me to craft something for he or she could craft it into somthing else.
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Ok, so a synth you never do, probably not for profit and person expected no HQs, you did that free.

The synth you wanted is probably one of the crafter's main income sources, if they just buy your ring, or they say no and buy your ring 10mins later anyways off the AH, they can have a chance of making the profit for themselves, why should anyone give you the chance to make a ton of gil off their skills? What if I sent you a tell asking you to claim a stroper chyme and let me have the item if it drops, not the worlds perfect anology but pretty damn close.
 
oraga said:
Yes i so know how to craft people i im currently in the middle of getting smithing up kinda stuck at 33 but im still working at getting it up. me since i would just sell them back.

So dont complain i craft too.

Oh and chyme thing was a joke :)
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Despite the fact that I am going to sound like an elitist asshole but it must be said.... HOW THE FUCK DO YOU FIGURE BEING LVL 33 GIVES YOU THE SLIGHTEST FUCKEN IDEA WHAT ITS LIKE TO GET A CRAFT TO 100?!!!


Ohh you spent 100k to get to lvl 33 poor baby... When you spend 100k+ a lvl then you can talk.
 
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