I'm sorry to say crafters...

i can understand crafters charging a fee for synthing, if the person just asks for a specific item, but doesnt provide the matierials. Then makeing this item took the entire time of shuftleing through Auction Houses all over the place, finding the right things to make item X.

i dont see it if you had asked the person to craft item X, and then gave them all the matierials, and the crystal. Then the craft takes all of 30 seconds, and the person who requested it has thier item. If its a fail hand back whatever is left over, and leave. if NQ, hand it over, if HQ, you could sugjest that they give a little thank you cash, but hand it over none the less.

and the "it took me X amount of Gil to get to X level" thing doesnt have much merit in this situation. you got that level so that you could make the things you wanted or to craft it for sale on the AH.

and remember, this game doesnt work if no one helps one another. I'm sure you can take 30 seconds out of your game time to craft somthing, then make them happy when the crystal throws out more energy in the final crafting animation.
 
It's funny, no one likes gil sellers, who waste quite abit of time and money to make a sucessful business but everyone loves crafters. To me, it's almost the exact same thing. Congradulations, you spent alot of time and money leveling up a craft, good for you. Guess what the gil sellers did? Same god damn thing. They spent alot of money making a successful business and not only that, but they have to worry about being sued. I'm not supporting gil sellers, but greedy players make their business successful, so I see something between them. Gil sellers didn't make everything expensive, players did and blamed it on them.

Both are being relatively greedy in my book. You spent alot of time and money to make it to 100. You spent 10+ million dollars to get it that high. HQ items at a constant rate, I GUARENTEE you that you will have that 10+ million back in your pocket in a matter of weeks.

Should I pay you extra for all that hard work? Hell yes I should! If I ask someone to craft me a Sniper's Ring and give them all the ingridients, they will also be getting 50k + from me for doing so. But this is a binding contract. I paid you a fee at the beginning to make me my ring, I even supplied the ingridients so it is no lose to you. You have no fucking right to raise the price. Aww...Your time and money means I should sacrifice all the time and money I spent to get ingridients. Fuck you, your time is not greater than mine. We made a contract, and you'll follow through with it. It's not like that 30 fucking seconds stole 2 million dollars from you. I paid you to get me a HQ, do I charge you money when I don't get it? No, I don't. I say thank you for trying, take the NQ and sell it then try again. You know how many fucking times I have to hunt down the same exact ingridients to get one god damn HQ, quite a few. And that's not my fault, not really the crafter's either, but I can assure you it's not my fault so why should I fucking pay for it.

You're all assuming that they do HQ it. It's not a guarentee, I'd pay you more if I knew there was no chance of a failure. There isn't...If I come to you expecting a HQ and it breaks, I don't make you pay for it. I grit my teeth and camp the ingridients again to attempt it once more. Crafters aren't all great people, who take advantage of no one. A number of times I have paid for a HQ and got a failure and they still took the money I gave them to attempt it. That's mostly my fault for trusting someone though, isn't it?

I don't mean to insult all you crafters, it takes alot of skill, patience, and money to level up a craft. You did something that most people don't even attempt and now you can make money off of it. But that doesn't mean you can rip people off, you don't make all the fucking rules. This isn't real life, you don't need to follow capitalism. Be a nice fucking person and do a guy a favor, don't take advantage of your position over them. And now you'll tell me, "Well just go to someone else..." Fine, I will. That doesn't change the fact that your an arrogant asshole that needs to learn the meaning of "in-game."
 
We made a contract, and you'll follow through with it.
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I like how you just assume we're obligated to agree to your contract. Again if you don't like it, (See you again!) I'm sure someone else would be happy to watch their HQ pissed away into your hands. But not me. Thx.

That is to say, GL finding someone that generous. ;/
 
Not your HQ, my HQ. You crafted it, but with my ingredients, my money, and my time. I don't have to deal with your price, very true. But like I said before, that doesn't change the fact that your being greedy. You did nothing to earn the ingredients. You simply selected the crystal, then the items given, and made my item. I'm not paying someone an extra 300k for getting lucky.
 
You missed what i just said. It's not your HQ unless the crafter HQs it. If the crafter doesn't like your logic they will not sit there and craft it for you under those conditions... so how are you going to get an HQ if the crafters turn your ultimatum down? Are you going to HQ it? If not, then it is not your HQ.
 
Golen said:
Not your HQ, my HQ. You crafted it, but with my ingredients, my money, and my time. I don't have to deal with your price, very true. But like I said before, that doesn't change the fact that your being greedy. You did nothing to earn the ingredients. You simply selected the crystal, then the items given, and made my item. I'm not paying someone an extra 300k for getting lucky.
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It's not your Craft level, its their craft level. Your ingredients, but with their level, the money they put into the craft, the time they put into the craft. Your statement is a tad bit moot because it can be seen from many different perspectives.
 
Seriously, when it's of no loss to you, just do not ask for more when you're already getting something. Some people just do not have the gil to afford multimillion gil items. Myself included. "Oh they'll save 1 mil if they pay me 1.5 for HQing their ring!" doesn't work, because obviously they don't have the gil for it in the first place, which is why they're farming the items. So if they don't pony up the nonexistant greenback(Or would it be goldback?) that you so cheerfully demand because the random number generator that every MMO and MUD is based off of decided to spit out a shot of luck, what do you do then? Expecting someone to pay ludicrous amounts, even if you see it as a discount, is you just being a total dick.
 
As well, what if they've already taken a craft over 60? You're stagnating the whole purpose of a Player-based economy, just because you're demanding something you shouldn't be. Theres a reason you can only take one craft beyond that limit. If someone were able to take everything to 100, it would kill the entire economy of the game. There'd be no reason to trade amongst other players. Everyone would be dirt cheap. Yes. Everything. Why? Because anyone can craft it. Just be appreciative of the fact that you can still make money putting in your own money, and not capitalizing on someone elses gain, just because you hold your imaginary hand of cards.
 
I guess I dont find it kinda odd that only campers seem to be against being charged and crafters are for it... that is to say, campers dont understand it at all. We don't want to camp to make money. Or we have a job that can't. Instead, we let you camp it, and make money off your camping.

Meh...just lets leave it at this... unless you're really a close friend don't expect a free HQ out of me. If you want someone to just fork you over 10mil for using their crafting skill go elsewhere. I been used enough.
 
Svina said:
I guess I dont find it kinda odd that only campers seem to be against being charged and crafters are for it... that is to say, campers dont understand it at all. We don't want to camp to make money. Or we have a job that can't. Instead, we let you camp it, and make money off your camping.

Meh...just lets leave it at this... unless you're really a close friend don't expect a free HQ out of me. If you want someone to just fork you over 10mil for using their crafting skill go elsewhere. I been used enough.
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I'm really neither, and I'm against it. I'm someone who likes to see others succeed, and others helping others. It's not a hard concept. By the way, if anyone wants to avoid paying ridiculous prices for silent oils and prism powders just come to me with ingredients for wax/oils/fibers/powders and I'll fix ya right up.
 
Skaw said:
Svina said:
I'm really neither, and I'm against it. I'm someone who likes to see others succeed, and others helping others. It's not a hard concept. By the way, if anyone wants to avoid paying ridiculous prices for silent oils and prism powders just come to me with ingredients for wax/oils/fibers/powders and I'll fix ya right up.
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When you see some one come to you with amenint skins asking you to try for a HQ, you do so and they turn around and sell it that same day you have every right to be pissed as all shit. This has happened to Svina so he protects himself as we all do now. I charge the price of (HQ - price NQ) / 2.

IE Vermilion is 3.5 mil Royal cloak is 4.5 I charge 500k for HQing it. You still make profit at my expense but take it or leave it aparantly my formula is considered generuse.
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Golen said:
Not your HQ, my HQ. You crafted it, but with my ingredients, my money, and my time. I don't have to deal with your price, very true. But like I said before, that doesn't change the fact that your being greedy. You did nothing to earn the ingredients. You simply selected the crystal, then the items given, and made my item. I'm not paying someone an extra 300k for getting lucky.
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what svina is saying, and i'll break it down for you.

he could buy the materials himself and if there is an hq it is all his. therefore if you want him to chance an hq with your materials, he expects compensation for something he could do without your bullshit materials.
if you want the whole 3 mil profit CRAFT IT YOUR FUCKING SELF!!!!!!!
 
I'm gonna break this down in RL terms for y'all:

You have a car. It breaks down. So you have to take it to the shop to get fixed. You need to pay for parts AND LABOR to get your car back fixed. If they do a really kick ass job, you're car runs better than before you even brought it in (ie. an HQ). I don't know about you guys, but I do tip my mechanic.

Now, lets take a snipers ring. You bring the parts to the crafter. The crafter with the skill to synth this for you is able to HQ it. Now, if there was no hq then you're not charged for labor if I'm reading this right. But, if there is an HQ involved then the crafter wants extra for doin' a better job. I don't blame them. Think of it as a 17% gratuity like what you'd pay your waitress at a restaurant. Don't think of it as the crafter trying to screw you. Think of it showing appreciation to your crafter.

Food for thought.
 
Btw, 17% of 3.5mil is 595,000. Y'all are bitchin' about 500k and you're not even giving a 17% gratuity. Shame on you!!!!! :shock:
 
Kat said:
I'm gonna break this down in RL terms for y'all:

You have a car. It breaks down. So you have to take it to the shop to get fixed. You need to pay for parts AND LABOR to get your car back fixed. If they do a really kick ass job, you're car runs better than before you even brought it in (ie. an HQ). I don't know about you guys, but I do tip my mechanic.
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yes, a tip is in order, but what Svina and others have been saying, is you now should pay for the HQ in proportion of what its worth.

you bring your 1000$ car in for 100$ repairs. in the proces, he fixes a number of small problems, and your pile-o-crap car is now worth 10,000$ does the mechanic get to charge you the 9,000$ he increesed its value by? (this is assumeing all he did was exactly what the 100$ repair involves)
 
Marajade said:
Kat said:
I'm gonna break this down in RL terms for y'all:

You have a car. It breaks down. So you have to take it to the shop to get fixed. You need to pay for parts AND LABOR to get your car back fixed. If they do a really kick ass job, you're car runs better than before you even brought it in (ie. an HQ). I don't know about you guys, but I do tip my mechanic.
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yes, a tip is in order, but what Svina and others have been saying, is you now should pay for the HQ in proportion of what its worth.

you bring your 1000$ car in for 100$ repairs. in the proces, he fixes a number of small problems, and your pile-o-crap car is now worth 10,000$ does the mechanic get to charge you the 9,000$ he increesed its value by? (this is assumeing all he did was exactly what the 100$ repair involves)
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ok check this out, you go into a mechanic with a vw and a bunch of parts, and you ask the mechaninc to turn that vw into a ferrari. thats whats happening here. archer riing is nice, but having a sniper ring +1 is a whole hell of a lot nicer

you are not asking svina to give a shiny archer, you are asking for something with added value. value that he added. value that wont be added unless you agree to his terms. so no matter what argument you give here, it is at his descretion to charge a fee he feels is addequit. for you got come up a 1 mil profit for just getting a ring a crystal and some leather is a pretty good deal. be happy he doesnt tell you to post that archer at ah so he can buy it, and enjoy the full 3 mil profit.
 
meeze said:
ok check this out, you go into a mechanic with a vw and a bunch of parts, and you ask the mechaninc to turn that vw into a ferrari. thats whats happening here. archer riing is nice, but having a sniper ring +1 is a whole hell of a lot nicer.
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thats if you went to them, and asked to make a +1. if you just had an archer, and whatever else it takes (cant remember at the moment), and said you'll take whatever comes out of the synth, its difrent.

if you take your VW to the mechanic, and he then turns that VW into a ferari of his own initiatve (accidental +1) does that mean you have to pay for that work, when you didnt ask for it?

now, if all you want is an NQ, you could just make a deal that if it does HQ, the crafter can keep it, and just give you a diffrent NQ.
 
the person asking is hoping for a +1 that is the whole point of this thread, he wants a +1 to come out. if he just wanted a sniper ring, he would sell the archer for more than the cost of a sniper and have some change left over after he buys his regular sniper
 
Marajade said:
now, if all you want is an NQ, you could just make a deal that if it does HQ, the crafter can keep it, and just give you a diffrent NQ.
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That's the　other alternative I tell people... but usually I can do better and actually offer to buy them their NQ ring as a result of the HQ... meaning, you just got a free sniper ring (in other words, I pay for hte value of the ring, and then give them a sniper in addition to that, so all in all you're actually doubling the value of your drop)... but yes I would keep the HQ and sell it if the additional charge is not feasible to the person requesting the synth, and of course, it all must be mutually agreed on.
 
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